Realistic expectations for UT program

[BeattieFeathers]

see, this is where people are contradicting themselves.

there wasn't a ton of success in the 80's. there was 85 and 89 and a whole lot of blah.

same goes for the 2000's. there was 2001 and 2004 and a whole lot of blah.

the level of winning in the 80's is the kind of success the original poster is suggesting. a couple of titles and a bunch of 8-4 type seasons.

Yrs......80s and 00's is what I expect. But I don't expect Florida to be what they were under spurrier or Meyer either. They will too be up and down. I do expect Muschamp to win 9 and the east this year. Auburn wins 10 and the west and the sec.

 

[BeattieFeathers]

Very well written. The league has more parity than it ever had in it's existence. Anyone who doesn't acknowledge that the power has dramatically shifted to the SEC for the past decade is not being realistic. The best schools from the second tier conferences would be also-rans in the SEC. The days of dominating and going undefeated are over, for at least the foreseeable future.

Thanks

Just trying to keep it real. Most of these people expect a nick saban type run......won't happen.

 

[UGADawg4Life]

Deleted

 

[99gator]

Yrs......80s and 00's is what I expect. But I don't expect Florida to be what they were under spurrier or Meyer either. They will too be up and down. I do expect Muschamp to win 9 and the east this year. Auburn wins 10 and the west and the sec.

I agree totally....except the muschamp part

 

[ttatj]

I think most teams in the SEC are replacing their quarterbacks this season so it could be interesting; lots of unknowns.

But, our QBs do not reach to SEC competitive level at this moment. This is the problem, we recognize it surely. We really hope our QBs grow to be competitive in SEC this season. Sad, but the truth, every articles wrote.

 

[sjt18]

I'm shocked. Believe me... I've got my shocked face on that the OP is trying to lower the bar again. He said one thing that rings true through every post he makes "I have zero expectations of Butch Jones". At least he's honest about expectations of mediocrity and failure....

 

[Ned Ray McWorkher]

I would consider Tennessee elite. So would college football history. We have been, and can be as good as any team you want to name. People sure have enjoyed the down turn of Tennessee football (must remember us winning too much). Hope you all enjoy the resurgence too.

 

[99gator]

Explain how that's relevant to anything I said.

In fact, explain to me how that in any way is not completely contradicted by my post.

Basically, and the Georgia fan beat me to it, Tennessee is not elite. Not in the manner you describe.

There are 25 or so programs capable of doing what is possible at Tennessee.

Tennessee is not one of a "handful" as evidenced by the fact that it has been decades since they were the premier program in their own league

 

[sjt18]

when was the last time tennessee was THE dominant team in the sec?

When has anything great been achieved once mediocrity became the goal?

 

[99gator]

When has anything great been achieved once mediocrity became the goal?

All of this is a " playing the odds" scenario.

You always reach for the stars. I bet against anyone actually reaching them.

As the poster said, I don't expect Florida or anyone else to have the kind of success we are talking about.

And in fact, neither has bama with saban. Before I get stoned here, saban has only two conference titles at bama. They just also happened to get the big prize at an alarming rate. But two sec titles is not as many as most would think in his 7 seasons

 

[sjt18]

I hate to be "that guy" but IMHO Texas is THE sleeping giant. If a Saban type was HC there, they could 3 or 4peat the NC.

Tennessee has that capacity too. Chatt is right. There are a handful of programs like that. All that is missing is the "will" to do what it takes to get there. Folks like the OP... have given up already.

 

[KnoxRealtorVOL]

I hate to break it to you, but when college football minds put together elite lists, Tenessee is not near the top. Perhaps years ago UT was a powerhouse, but most fans are too young to remember that. Heck, Sewanee was a powerhouse at one time. If you look at today's elite programs, they all have one thing in common. A solid base of home-grown talent, and the ability to reach out and recruit additional talent from a regional area. The Vols had a solid recruiting class of an unusual number of HS football UT legacies. CBJ did an outstanding job of adding to that momentum, and will likely build another highly-ranked class this year. But to compare Tennessee to Texas is very unrealistic. Texas is a hotbed for local talent. Tennessee is not under current conditions. Until the level of HS football in TN improves, it will be difficult to sustain the momentum that CBJ has started. IMHO, you can't build a consistent winning program nowadays without a strong local talent base.

I've never bought into this notion. Having great local HS talent doesn't make or break a program. If that were the case, Penn State would have never had much of a history and Miami would always be on top.

When your program is known and respected your reach is endless. We are not respected right now like we once were. There's a reason in "The Blind Side" the coaches from other programs watching Oher play said "Fulmer's here, may as well go home." Tennessee was well known and respected at that time and recruited very well. I doubt local HS talent in Tennessee was much different than it is now.

 

[sjt18]

All of this is a " playing the odds" scenario.

You always reach for the stars. I bet against anyone actually reaching them.

As the poster said, I don't expect Florida or anyone else to have the kind of success we are talking about.

And in fact, neither has bama with saban. Before I get stoned here, saban has only two conference titles at bama. They just also happened to get the big prize at an alarming rate. But two sec titles is not as many as most would think in his 7 seasons

Read more of the OP's posts. When he says he has "no" expectations of Jones... that's what he means.

 

[KnoxRealtorVOL]

Basically, and the Georgia fan beat me to it, Tennessee is not elite. Not in the manner you describe.

There are 25 or so programs capable of doing what is possible at Tennessee.

Tennessee is not elite.... even though it's in the top 15 NCAA football schools in claimed national titles, one of only 11 teams in the 800 win club, one of only 2 teams that have never had an 8 loss season, number 11 in all-time win percentage......... I'll just stop there.

Tennessee is not one of a "handful" as evidenced by the fact that it has been decades since they were the premier program in their own league

When saying "a handful" I was referring to all-time categories. I don't understand why you keep trying to dispute this with "lately" arguments.

 

[Ned Ray McWorkher]

I hate to break it to you, but when college football minds put together elite lists, Tenessee is not near the top. If you look at today's elite programs, they all have one thing in common. A solid base of home-grown talent, and the ability to reach out and recruit additional talent from a regional area. The Vols had a solid recruiting class of an unusual number of HS football UT legacies. CBJ did an outstanding job of adding to that momentum, and will likely build another highly-ranked class this year. But to compare Tennessee to Texas is very unrealistic. Texas is a hotbed for local talent. Tennessee is not under current conditions.

I hate to break it to you, but college football minds can't look at any NFL game and not see these Vols. We are everywhere. We're all in the record books too, college & pro. How would you propose that we have we built up all of this history without being an elite program?
I'd like to break to you the fact that Tennessee is better than Georgia at most everything, even recruiting Georgia players.
All of the "elite" teams today have one thing in common. They are elite today. And not guaranteed to be "elite" tomorrow.
Texas, resplendent with all of there local hotbeds and talents & such, have not accomplished very much lately. They have one BCS title, ( not unlike the real UT), and not much else during that time. Another thing Texas has the that we don't is a weak conference too dominate, and they haven't been able to do that too well as of late.
Right now Butch is working on another top notch class. No signs of slowing down either. And saying we had legacy recruits is not an excuse. Because we don't have a legacy, at least according to you, and "college football minds" anyway, right?
I'd say Tennessee is doing just fine and everyone else should be concerned for their own safety. Georgia knows what 9 in a row looks like, don't they?
eace2:

 

[Ned Ray McWorkher]

Before I get stoned here

:rock:

 

[ALLVOL24/7/365]

Basically, and the Georgia fan beat me to it, Tennessee is not elite. Not in the manner you describe.

There are 25 or so programs capable of doing what is possible at Tennessee.

Tennessee is not one of a "handful" as evidenced by the fact that it has been decades since they were the premier program in their own league

99 I will grant you that UT would not be considered one of the top 10 coaching jobs at this moment in time. The UF job would be by many peoples estimate in the top 10. But it is all about perception and winning for a little while. Before CSS arrived the UF job would not have been held in such high esteem. But to his credit, he came in and kicked everybody's azz. Won the NC for his alma mater and kicked our tails several times. Bobby Bowden did the same thing for that teachers college over at F$U. He made that a high profile job. If, and it is a huge IF, CBJ gets it done at UT THEN UT WILL BE IN THE TOP 10. When General Neyland was hired his job was to "Beat 'Bama" and he owned them. It can be done on the Hill, a coach at TN is not blessed with the same number of great players that are in the states of FL, GA, or TX for example. So a coach at TN has to recruit harder and be on the top of his game but TENNESSEE WILL BE BACK IN THE THICK OF THE SEC AND AT SOME POINT THE NC.

To UGADawg4Life, hey you all have Richt. I hope GA keeps him for the long term, extend his contract. You said to be successful you must have great in state talent. I will grant you that is helpful. With as much talent as comes out of GA then all the other teams in the country except utjr and uscwest should award the NC to you 3 on a rotating basis and not bother playing. Well the old saying is the coach puts up a fence around the state to get the best recruits. IS RICHT USING INVISIBLE FENCING? Seems like every elite player in the state of GA is going everywhere but Athens. You all should have NC's out the ying yang but you have to go back to the real coach Dooley for the NC. JMO Dawg.

 

[MrBiggles]

Hate to say this to you Gator99 but when UT was elite we were getting players from all over the country and putting them into the pros with regularity way before Florida, FSU, and Miami was. I can guarantee you that Butch Jones knows that if he doesn't win 6-7+ this year or next he's going to be finding himself on a hot seat or looking for a job hence the reason that he establishing a culture of "winning mindset", "mental toughness" and things like that. It's why we have maxims on the wall and these are recited before the game!

 

[Volru]

The SEC has never been as tough as it is now. It's going to become tougher because of the tv contract which will raise all boats. Thus, more teams will be capable whereas in the past, it was only the so called Big Six.
With that said, I believe the top teams in our league are going to look more like Uga than Bama, from a record standpoint. Auburn had a magical season by winning the SEC but still lost two games. UGA under Richt has been terribly unlucky. Had there not been two unbeaten teams in 2002, Richt would have likely played for a national title, just as Saban was able to do two Times! He could have played for it all in 2007 as well. But Richt has had a few lean years as well, primarily due to youth at qb or injuries.
I believe the Uga program is what most of the top programs are going to become because of the dog eat dog nature of this league. I think Saban has won his last national title. I think Bama will look more like Uga in the coming years.
I say all that to say that this season, I have zero expectations for Butch Jones. I do want to see young players develop and want to see a fighting spirit, realizing that there still might be a day on the schedule where we get overwhelmed.
Eventually, I expect 8 to 10 win sessions with an occasional great year where we win 11 or perhaps slip to 6 or 7 with a youthful qb or injuries. I do not expect that we will ever be The Big Orange of the 90's and those of you who grew up during that time period should not expect it either. I expect that we will look more like Tennessee of the 2000's....the program that went to atlanta three times and once was only one win away from playing for a national title. Because of the nature of the SEC, we will likely slip back to the pack when youth prevails, especially at qb.
I expect to beat vandy and kentucky every year, Carolina most of the time, and expect to win 50 percent of the time against Bama,Uga, and Florida. I expect to be in atlanta three or four times every 10 to 12 years.
Go Vols!:hi:

WRONG.

Unfortunately, the Bammers are still the team to beat, both in the SEC and nationally. They have the most talent, the most depth, and the head coach with the most wins. They got in the way of Auburn's good fortune in an atypical lapse when some players forgot their jobs on the final play of that game. It happens to every great coach sooner or later in the college game.

I pains me to say it. Most likely next year's national champion will be the Bammers or will have to beat the Bammers to get there. There is no debate here, not among coaches, press, or fans who have objectively compared the rosters.

 

[golf437]

Hate to say this to you Gator99 but when UT was elite we were getting players from all over the country and putting them into the pros with regularity way before Florida, FSU, and Miami was. I can guarantee you that Butch Jones knows that if he doesn't win 6-7+ this year or next he's going to be finding himself on a hot seat or looking for a job hence the reason that he establishing a culture of "winning mindset", "mental toughness" and things like that. It's why we have maxims on the wall and these are recited before the game!

Wrong about this year. Next year He will have to win more or the heat will start to turn up.

 

[crparker21]

Basically, and the Georgia fan beat me to it, Tennessee is not elite. Not in the manner you describe.

There are 25 or so programs capable of doing what is possible at Tennessee.

Tennessee is not one of a "handful" as evidenced by the fact that it has been decades since they were the premier program in their own league

Does bama before saban ring a bell? Honestly it will be tough to repeat the 90's but there is no reason we cant be dominant in the east again. I actually see florida crawling in a hole for a while. They should have cut ties this year to minimize the damage.

 

[Remy]

The SEC has never been as tough as it is now. It's going to become tougher because of the tv contract which will raise all boats. Thus, more teams will be capable whereas in the past, it was only the so called Big Six.
With that said, I believe the top teams in our league are going to look more like Uga than Bama, from a record standpoint. Auburn had a magical season by winning the SEC but still lost two games. UGA under Richt has been terribly unlucky. Had there not been two unbeaten teams in 2002, Richt would have likely played for a national title, just as Saban was able to do two Times! He could have played for it all in 2007 as well. But Richt has had a few lean years as well, primarily due to youth at qb or injuries.
I believe the Uga program is what most of the top programs are going to become because of the dog eat dog nature of this league. I think Saban has won his last national title. I think Bama will look more like Uga in the coming years.
I say all that to say that this season, I have zero expectations for Butch Jones. I do want to see young players develop and want to see a fighting spirit, realizing that there still might be a day on the schedule where we get overwhelmed.
Eventually, I expect 8 to 10 win sessions with an occasional great year where we win 11 or perhaps slip to 6 or 7 with a youthful qb or injuries. I do not expect that we will ever be The Big Orange of the 90's and those of you who grew up during that time period should not expect it either. I expect that we will look more like Tennessee of the 2000's....the program that went to atlanta three times and once was only one win away from playing for a national title. Because of the nature of the SEC, we will likely slip back to the pack when youth prevails, especially at qb.
I expect to beat vandy and kentucky every year, Carolina most of the time, and expect to win 50 percent of the time against Bama,Uga, and Florida. I expect to be in atlanta three or four times every 10 to 12 years.
Go Vols!:hi:

Caution butt hurt Richt man boy love association alert for this post.

 

[Volunteer forever]

Can and will the 'brutal schedules' change in the future? And was the scheduling done by previous AD to generate revenue? It hurts to continue to have the top 5 hardest schedule in all of college football..

That was my point. Especially when the program is down. With better coaching and better recruiting we should see improvement.

 

[WoodsmanVol]

I pretty much disagree with all this.

We are just not that kind of program. Some programs are built around being mediocre. Some programs are built around being good to great programs. Some are built around being the elite.

All programs are built from the standpoint of winning their conference at the very least. Even the bottom feeders. As to whether they expect to is a different armadillo scurrying across I-40 or I-10.

Tennessee is an elite program. It's easy to say "we will just never be the Tennessee of the 90's again" much like I'm sure teams in the 90's at one point said "we'll just never be the same as General Neyland's Vols." There are only a handful of programs in the country that are on that same "elite" level, and a few years, even a decade of poor seasons does not change that.

I disagree about whether we have another 1990's type run. I honestly believe that CBJ's recruiting prowess and eventually his coaching prowess will drag us back to another decade of dominance. The football gods have mercy on the SEC if team 118 ends up winning 8 or more games this season. Our current status and selections notwithstanding, we will see a recruiting haul the likes we haven't seen since Fulmer's recruiting heyday. From thence, the crimson tide will sink and drown, the gators and bulldogs will be biting their own gluteus maximus insisting that ham is ham no matter whose ham it is.

Basically, I look at Tennessee like I look at Texas. They are known for football, as are we. We are known for our trophy case. We are among the 800 win club with only a handful of other teams. The football world isn't wondering if Tennessee will ever be good, they're wondering when Tennessee will be back. The same can be said for Texas. The same can be said for Penn State. Our fans do not demand championships because they are delusional, our fans demand championships because that expectation was set long ago and that is our standard.

Agree. We're downnow but definitely are a program of a level that's what I'd call: You Just Don't quarrel With The Quintronic man.

Basically, Tennessee is a sleeping giant. Bama was a sleeping giant not too long ago and look what happened when they woke up, they've wreaked havoc on all of college football. We've got the facilities, we've got the resources, we've got the history and the expectations. We're getting the players. There is absolutely ZERO reason to believe Tennessee will never wake up.

Even vols haters have been saying this. I contend the one shaking us awake is Butch. Is that a snarl I hear coming from that big place beside the Tennessee River?

 

[BeattieFeathers]

I'm shocked. Believe me... I've got my shocked face on that the OP is trying to lower the bar again. He said one thing that rings true through every post he makes "I have zero expectations of Butch Jones". At least he's honest about expectations of mediocrity and failure....

Why don't you learn to read? I am learning more about how unrealistic our fan base has become. It's scary we have so many " we are Tennessee by god" fans and that Bama success is our expectation. People talking about winning multiple national titles are dreaming. It should be the goal but never the expectation in terms of retaining and firing coaches. k: