Real culture change

#51
#51
OrangeBeachVol said:
If the Pruitt culture was so bad makes you wonder why all the starters transferred out. You would think they would be happy for a coaching change. To me it smells of they may have been the one's taking the payouts, if that turns out to be true or they were Pruitt favorites and got special treatment so the culture wasn't bad for them.
Just saying.....
Click to expand...
probably bigger bags of money elsewhere
 
#52
#52
VB_Vol said:
Gust Avrakotos:
A boy is given a horse on his 14th birthday. Everyone in the village says, "Oh how wonderful." But a Zen master who lives in the village says, "We'll see." 'The boy falls off the horse and breaks his foot. Everyone in the village says, "Oh how awful." The Zen master says, "We'll see." The village is thrown into war and all the young men have to go to war. But, because of the broken foot, the boy stays behind. Everyone says, "Oh, how wonderful." The Zen master says, "We'll see."
Click to expand...
1628536160735.jpeg
 
#53
#53
Pruitt also likely created division amongst the team by paying som players and not others. Allegedly. We’ve all worked with toxic people before. When they leave, the workplace becomes so much more enjoyable even though the work load is the same.
 
  • Like
Reactions: FïreBall
#55
#55
05_never_again said:
There also a bit of a chicken or the egg thing going on with this topic. Do successful teams win because they have a good culture, or do they win and that is why the culture is good?

I think one can definitely feed off of the other both ways, but I'm tempted to think a good culture follows from the success of the team, rather than the other way around. If you go out week after week and get your brains beaten in, that tends to become not a very positive environment even if at the start of the coach's time there everybody liked him, the players got along, etc. If guys go out and win every week, that tends to smooth over disputes and frustrations that people might have.
Click to expand...


Yeah I think we are saying the same thing. Your culture is tested by adversity. If you have a good culture, it will survive the adversity and live to fight another day. None of our last three coaches had a culture that could survive real adversity.

I'm sure Pruitt's culture was just fine on team's that never or rarely lost games.
 
  • Like
Reactions: saxvol
#56
#56
05_never_again said:
You ever watched the video? I'm kind of ashamed to admit I watched about 30 minutes of it the other day. I couldn't help but notice that at least a dozen times, Pruitt pauses his explanation and says "Well, I'm not sure why that guy is doin' that, we do not teach 'em that, but I'll keep goin." I think he was totally oblivious to the fact that players constantly being in the wrong position on film is a bad reflection of him, not necessarily his players. If that statement is any insight into how he coached, it is no wonder is pissed guys off.

Click to expand...


This video is so telling it must have been at or near the end of his tenure and he knew he was cooked. The way he talked about players, any clips from UT and truly loved the tape from Bama he had no business wearing the Power T on his shirt that day. I don't know the guy but I do know a bit about being a leader. The way he talks is hard to follow, the way he puts mistakes on his players (save the one or two times he pokes fun at himself) is demoralizing, and the overall tone of his style isn't motivating.

I get its a block of instruction on different coverages and the guy knows his Xs and Os but either we have the densest players on the planet that just screw up all the time or he couldn't find a way to coach them up. Maybe a bit of both but the decision tree the LBs and corners are making are critical and explain why slants ate our lunch last year.

Wow, I am so glad he's gone.

Ed
 
#57
#57
GoVols64 said:
This video is so telling it must have been at or near the end of his tenure and he knew he was cooked. The way he talked about players, any clips from UT and truly loved the tape from Bama he had no business wearing the Power T on his shirt that day. I don't know the guy but I do know a bit about being a leader. The way he talks is hard to follow, the way he puts mistakes on his players (save the one or two times he pokes fun at himself) is demoralizing, and the overall tone of his style isn't motivating.

I get its a block of instruction on different coverages and the guy knows his Xs and Os but either we have the densest players on the planet that just screw up all the time or he couldn't find a way to coach them up. Maybe a bit of both but the decision tree the LBs and corners are making are critical and explain why slants ate our lunch last year.

Wow, I am so glad he's gone.

Ed
Click to expand...


Whatever he was teaching, our players weren't getting it. Could have been on the players, but mostly on him. He never figured out how to coach players who needed development and didnt show up day 1 to campus ready to play big boy football. He didnt have that skill.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GoVols64
#59
#59
MWAVolfan said:
Whatever he was teaching, our players weren't getting it. Could have been on the players, but mostly on him. He never figured out how to coach players who needed development and didnt show up day 1 to campus ready to play big boy football. He didnt have that skill.
Click to expand...
He wasn't used to coaching guys who needed a lot of coaching, all the way back to his high school coaching days. Except that first year at Alabama (where he wasn't an on-field coach) and of course Tennessee, he was stepping into a "firing on all cylinders" program full of guys who basically just needed to be told where to go. Once they were told where to go, they could execute.

From that video I linked to, you can tell he was used to coaching guys who "got it" from his very first command and did not need help on the execution piece. I have very little doubt that he's very knowledgable about the game, particularly defense, but knowledge of the game does not make you a great coach. Hell, there are a lot of fans out there with good knowledge of the game, but obviously it doesn't mean they could coach.
 
  • Like
Reactions: FïreBall
#60
#60
GoVols64 said:
This video is so telling it must have been at or near the end of his tenure and he knew he was cooked. The way he talked about players, any clips from UT and truly loved the tape from Bama he had no business wearing the Power T on his shirt that day. I don't know the guy but I do know a bit about being a leader. The way he talks is hard to follow, the way he puts mistakes on his players (save the one or two times he pokes fun at himself) is demoralizing, and the overall tone of his style isn't motivating.

I get its a block of instruction on different coverages and the guy knows his Xs and Os but either we have the densest players on the planet that just screw up all the time or he couldn't find a way to coach them up. Maybe a bit of both but the decision tree the LBs and corners are making are critical and explain why slants ate our lunch last year.

Wow, I am so glad he's gone.

Ed
Click to expand...
Even if you get past the incessant "Aight" and "OK" (which is difficult) it is incredibly hard to follow.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GoVols64
#61
#61
MWAVolfan said:
Yeah but then read the third sentence, implying that before Heupel there were no actual culture changes. This is what I was referring to. The original intent of the writer and my intent are different.
Click to expand...
His opinion as the writer. Intent is arbitrary.
 
#62
#62
VB_Vol said:
Gust Avrakotos:
A boy is given a horse on his 14th birthday. Everyone in the village says, "Oh how wonderful." But a Zen master who lives in the village says, "We'll see." 'The boy falls off the horse and breaks his foot. Everyone in the village says, "Oh how awful." The Zen master says, "We'll see." The village is thrown into war and all the young men have to go to war. But, because of the broken foot, the boy stays behind. Everyone says, "Oh, how wonderful." The Zen master says, "We'll see."
Click to expand...

Great movie! New coach hired. Oh how wonderful. We'll see. Coach fired. Oh how awful. We'll see. Culture changed. Oh how wonderful. We'll see.
 
  • Like
Reactions: FïreBall and VOLSanon
#64
#64
There is some truth to the idea that players are always excited about the culture change they think they're getting with the new guy... very often because they knew what the old guy was really about by the time he was fired.

This change does seem different because of the emphasis on "building" up rather than tearing down like Pruitt or playing "cool kid" games like Jones. Heupel chose assistants who are known for character and for being "good family men". My guess is he believes those same personal leadership habits will extend to the football team. The test obviously comes when things go sideways in a game. That's when you see if the positivity and "love" were real or not. That's when you see if the coaches and players continue to lift each other up. That's when you see if the coaches and staff are able to follow Heupel even when it seems like things aren't going right.

I really LOVE some of the things they're doing leadership wise. I definitely love the way he's handling the QB position. But the real test is when the bullets start flying.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JohnnyJava
#65
#65
05_never_again said:
There also a bit of a chicken or the egg thing going on with this topic. Do successful teams win because they have a good culture, or do they win and that is why the culture is good?

I think one can definitely feed off of the other both ways, but I'm tempted to think a good culture follows from the success of the team, rather than the other way around. If you go out week after week and get your brains beaten in, that tends to become not a very positive environment even if at the start of the coach's time there everybody liked him, the players got along, etc. If guys go out and win every week, that tends to smooth over disputes and frustrations that people might have.
Click to expand...
I think a good culture is prerequisite for success. However a good culture does not guarantee success and in line with what you are saying... continued failure will eventually smash a team regardless of culture. A good culture is the chassis... you still have to build the winning race car on top of it.
 
#66
#66
sjt18 said:
I think a good culture is prerequisite for success. However a good culture does not guarantee success and in line with what you are saying... continued failure will eventually smash a team regardless of culture. A good culture is the chassis... you still have to build the winning race car on top of it.
Click to expand...
The counterpoint...it is possible to win with a "bad culture." Look at any team Urban Meyer has coached.

If you have talented players that are well coached, you will win a lot of games. Even if the culture is bad or if no culture exists. And winning games tends to make guys come together and build chemistry, even if none existed before.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Booker512
#67
#67
05_never_again said:
The counterpoint...it is possible to win with a "bad culture." Look at any team Urban Meyer has coached.

If you have talented players that are well coached, you will win a lot of games. Even if the culture is bad or if no culture exists. And winning games tends to make guys come together and build chemistry, even if none existed before.
Click to expand...
I'll leave that to one of the UF fans but a lot of his guys seemed to love him and would follow him anywhere. I don't get it either but it must not have been as bad on the inside as we thought from the outside.
 
#68
#68
sjt18 said:
I'll leave that to one of the UF fans but a lot of his guys seemed to love him and would follow him anywhere. I don't get it either but it must not have been as bad on the inside as we thought from the outside.
Click to expand...
From The Mag: The rise, fall of Urban Meyer's Florida Gators

They loved Urban because they were winning. The amount of bad apples they had on those teams was staggering, but it didn't really matter because they were insanely talented and Urban is a hell of a coach. Many guys openly hated each other, lot of favoritism/special treatment from the coaching staff to certain players, they didn't like all the attention Tebow got because they thought it made him bigger than the team, Percy Harvin in particular was disliked because he was so erratic and a horrible teammate, guys got arrested left and right, etc.
 
#69
#69
05_never_again said:
From The Mag: The rise, fall of Urban Meyer's Florida Gators

They loved Urban because they were winning. The amount of bad apples they had on those teams was staggering, but it didn't really matter because they were insanely talented and Urban is a hell of a coach. Many guys openly hated each other, lot of favoritism/special treatment from the coaching staff to certain players, they didn't like all the attention Tebow got because they thought it made him bigger than the team, Percy Harvin in particular was disliked because he was so erratic and a horrible teammate, guys got arrested left and right, etc.
Click to expand...


Urban Meyers culture as a coach was fantastic, at Florida and Ohio State. You cant look at the players getting in trouble as a sign of bad culture. That's a completely different thing. It's clear that to have a top level program you have to take risks on guys who have flaws and hope they dont screw up too bad. That's not the culture of the program though. Urban was a fantastic teacher and had a high level of expectation on the field for his coaches and players. He cared about the well being of his players, even maybe to a fault. That and a butt load of talent is why he won.
 
#70
#70
MWAVolfan said:
Urban Meyers culture as a coach was fantastic, at Florida and Ohio State. You cant look at the players getting in trouble as a sign of bad culture. That's a completely different thing. It's clear that to have a top level program you have to take risks on guys who have flaws and hope they dont screw up too bad. That's not the culture of the program though. Urban was a fantastic teacher and had a high level of expectation on the field for his coaches and players. He cared about the well being of his players, even maybe to a fault. That and a butt load of talent is why he won.
Click to expand...
It was more than just guys getting in trouble - there were many malcontents on that team and internal struggles/divisions. I don't really think Urban's program at Florida is a program that I'd want, say, my son to be a part of, even though they were wildly successful.

They were able to put that aside because, as you said, they were more talented than basically every opponent they played and Urban is a fantastic coach. But the culture of that team was awful. I mean, it was probably better than the culture Pruitt had at Tennessee, but that's a low bar.
 
#73
#73
Heupel def doesnt seem like the blood and guts type, like Pruitt was and doesnt put off used car salesman vibes like Butch.

Kinda seems like a milk toast average suburban guy tbh. Maybe thats what we need, just an average guy. He probably tells dad jokes :D
 
#74
#74
05_never_again said:
You ever watched the video? I'm kind of ashamed to admit I watched about 30 minutes of it the other day. I couldn't help but notice that at least a dozen times, Pruitt pauses his explanation and says "Well, I'm not sure why that guy is doin' that, we do not teach 'em that, but I'll keep goin." I think he was totally oblivious to the fact that players constantly being in the wrong position on film is a bad reflection of him, not necessarily his players. If that statement is any insight into how he coached, it is no wonder is pissed guys off.

Click to expand...


I almost fell asleep watching that
 
  • Like
Reactions: 05_never_again
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.
Advertisement



Back
Top