Real culture change

#27
#27
VB_Vol said:
Gust Avrakotos:
A boy is given a horse on his 14th birthday. Everyone in the village says, "Oh how wonderful." But a Zen master who lives in the village says, "We'll see." 'The boy falls off the horse and breaks his foot. Everyone in the village says, "Oh how awful." The Zen master says, "We'll see." The village is thrown into war and all the young men have to go to war. But, because of the broken foot, the boy stays behind. Everyone says, "Oh, how wonderful." The Zen master says, "We'll see."
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WE WILL SEE…INDEED.
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#28
#28
GAVol said:
Aren't we about 20 years past the simpleton "Scream and intimidate" approach? You can get people's attention without just flat out embarrassing them because you can.
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I think it can go both ways. The stress produced by being yelled at can teach you something. You can't leave people down no matter how you choose to correct them. That's very basic leadership. It was something greatly emphasized with drill instructors when I was in the military years ago. It is often necessary to break someone down and do it quickly. But you build them back up right away. That's when you teach and encourage. Apparently Pruitt broke them down then left them to figure it out for themselves.
 
#29
#29
VB_Vol said:
Gust Avrakotos:
A boy is given a horse on his 14th birthday. Everyone in the village says, "Oh how wonderful." But a Zen master who lives in the village says, "We'll see." 'The boy falls off the horse and breaks his foot. Everyone in the village says, "Oh how awful." The Zen master says, "We'll see." The village is thrown into war and all the young men have to go to war. But, because of the broken foot, the boy stays behind. Everyone says, "Oh, how wonderful." The Zen master says, "We'll see."
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I have told this before. Not in the exact way, I'm curious if Avrakotos is the original or if mine were original. Same story but the Zen master is the boys father in my story and repeats "Who knows what is good and what is bad".
 
#30
#30
Heupel has been an elite college QB and a National Championship winner. He was part of one of the best college football programs with one of the best Head Coaches in CFB history. He went to Mizzu and there offense was bad…turned it into a very solid/productive unit. Never heard a word about a bad culture at UCF under him. He has been part of a winning championship type culture his whole career. He’s got this aspect of his job down.
 
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#32
#32
BigOrangeVols said:
I have told this before. Not in the exact way, I'm curious if Avrakotos is the original or if mine were original. Same story but the Zen master is the boys father in my story and repeats "Who knows what is good and what is bad".
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I think there are several versions out there. I took this one from the movie Charlie Wilson's War, one of my favorites.
 
#34
#34
I think Dooley brought some good things with him. He was, objectively, a bad head coach. But the VFL program, for one, was a worthwhile contribution. He actually would probably make a very good AD one day. He’s a better paper pusher than a head coach. And he’s actually a pretty good position guy for receivers. I think if Dez Bryant hadn’t been such a “pre-madonna” (😉) he’d have had more success in Dallas. His tenure likely did the most damage, however, to the product on the field. IIRC, he didn’t sign a single lineman during one whole recruiting cycle. That’s malfeasance. Wish we could’ve withheld his buyout just for that.
 
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#35
#35
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#36
#36
Brave Volunteer said:
Everyone loves the culture change until the bullets start flying. Let's wait until we're sitting at 3-5 and see how everyone loves the culture.
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Apples to bowling balls. We could be 3-5 even if there is a legitimate culture change. This is based off the state the program was in. If you are looking for reasons to complain, I am sure you will find them.
 
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#37
#37
I think it's understandable that fans want to look for positive signs of change. And it's bound to feel different with each new coach. I didn't really sense anything positive with either Dooley or Pruitt, for instance. I've felt a lot more of it with Heupel than I have with any of our previous coaches, post-CPF.
 
#38
#38
If the Pruitt culture was so bad makes you wonder why all the starters transferred out. You would think they would be happy for a coaching change. To me it smells of they may have been the one's taking the payouts, if that turns out to be true or they were Pruitt favorites and got special treatment so the culture wasn't bad for them.
Just saying.....
 
#39
#39
GAVol said:
Aren't we about 20 years past the simpleton "Scream and intimidate" approach? You can get people's attention without just flat out embarrassing them because you can.
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Yup and psychology research would say there are much better, more productive ways. Negative reinforcement is rarely the optimal route. Also sets people up to hold childish morality systems, i.e. don't do things out of fear of punishment.
 
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#40
#40
OrangeBeachVol said:
If the Pruitt culture was so bad makes you wonder why all the starters transferred out. You would think they would be happy for a coaching change. To me it smells of they may have been the one's taking the payouts, if that turns out to be true or they were Pruitt favorites and got special treatment so the culture wasn't bad for them.
Just saying.....
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Could be. Though the Pruitt culture is a moot point once he's gone. The decision was being part of a new rebuild going into your JR year or join a well oiled machine for your last 1-2 years. Think they opted for the easy route.
 
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#43
#43
At the end of the day, if a coach is nice or mean or curses or quotes in 5* hearts or is funny in press conference doesn't really matter...always hear stuff about outgoing coaches...most probably true. Winning proves the new culture is right.
 
#44
#44
These two coaches, and staffs, appear to be polar opposites. I expect comments like this from returning players. The thing is, both coaches are held to the same standard - win or you're gone.
 
#46
#46
JRich said:
These two coaches, and staffs, appear to be polar opposites. I expect comments like this from returning players. The thing is, both coaches are held to the same standard - win or you're gone.
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More importantly, I'm sure in year one under Pruitt, the returning players from the Butch Jones era thought that Pruitt's culture was refreshing and nice compared to Jones at the end of his tenure. I'm sure players thought the same thing in year one of the Jones era hype train after surviving the last year of Dooley. Means nothing until the team and the coaching staff begin to face real adversity. Then you will see how the culture handles things. Not saying things arent "better" now, just saying what we have seen or heard so far isn't new or extraordinary and it doesnt mean much.
 
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#49
#49
05_never_again said:
It's funny what winning (or lack thereof) does to the culture.
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Exactly, everyone has a fun new culture until that "oh no, we actually suck" moment happens. For Tennessee it usually happens around game 5 or 6 of the first season under a new coach and goes downhill from there. Then the pressure begins to mount on the players as well as the coaching staff. Then the culture is forced to change because things actually get hard. That's when you find out if you have a good culture or not.
 
#50
#50
MWAVolfan said:
Exactly, everyone has a fun new culture until that "oh no, we actually suck" moment happens. For Tennessee it usually happens around game 5 or 6 of the first season under a new coach and goes downhill from there. Then the pressure begins to mount on the players as well as the coaching staff. Then the culture is forced to change because things actually get hard. That's when you find out if you have a good culture or not.
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There also a bit of a chicken or the egg thing going on with this topic. Do successful teams win because they have a good culture, or do they win and that is why the culture is good?

I think one can definitely feed off of the other both ways, but I'm tempted to think a good culture follows from the success of the team, rather than the other way around. If you go out week after week and get your brains beaten in, that tends to become not a very positive environment even if at the start of the coach's time there everybody liked him, the players got along, etc. If guys go out and win every week, that tends to smooth over disputes and frustrations that people might have.
 
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