Ranking ACC and SEC football coaches from No. 1 Dabo Swinney to No. 28 Willie Taggart

TDawg

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Wouldn’t quite call it hilarious. He’s beaten him 2 out of 3 times in the national title game straight up, and had him on the ropes in a third game.

If it were me, I’d have had Saban #1 as well, but the case can be made for Dabo right now. Dude is 116-30 at Clemson and won 2 of the last 3 national titles.
They are 2-2 over the last 4 meetings with Clumpson beating Bama handily last year but Bama beating Clumpson's brains in the year before. The two games before that were nail biters. Dabo has proven he has to have a generational QB to win and win big and he has miraculously pulled off having two of them in the last few years. Saban has won with everyone from McElroy to Sims to Tua. I think Clumpson is a curious team this year bringing back some offensive weaponry but they lost a ton on defense.

Nod still goes to Saban until Dabo can pull out another 4 rings
 

TDawg

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Ranking Dabo and Saban is easy. Their body of work says it all. Arguing over Pruitt's ranking is silly, IMO, because he has 1 year under his belt. Where he ranks, who cares? He's UT's coach!
And here I thought total number of championships (Saban with two different teams) and making the playoffs every single year would count as a pretty high "body of work" .. putting Dabo at this point over Saban is also silly .. Generational QB Watson, wins a title. Not so generational QB Bryant, head caved in by Bama .. Generational QB Lawrence, another title
 

TDawg

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Disagree. Like I said in another post, it's more what have you done for me lately. Dabo has won the last 2/3 against bammer and 2/3 national championships, so in this moment he is ahead of Saban.

The author didn't say he was looking at all time greats, or he might have included General Neyland and Bear Bryant. If you want to look at lifetime accomplishments, then of course Saban comes out ahead, but that's not what this list was, it's "who is best here and now". And given the beat down Dabo just put on Saban, there can hardly be a doubt that it's Dabo.
Let's not act like all of Saban's titles were 10 years ago .. Bama beat Clemson 30-0 just two years ago .. Dabo can't win without a stud at QB .. couldn't do it with Taj Boyd, Kelly Bryant or anyone else not named Watson or Lawrence.
 

TDawg

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Why is that hilarious?

Saban came to Bama and turned them around for sure and has been arguably the best coach in all of college football; however Bama was still Bama........just down. Now what the heck was Clemson football when Swinney got there? He built Clemson he made them Bama 2.........so to speak.......so again I ask why is it hilarious?

Saban: .789
Swinney: .795

Both have won 2 of the past 4 NC’s

I’m certainly not saying Siwnney is the better but as of right now..........in this very moment it has to be close. If it is close then surely one being rated over the other is not “hilarious.”
I think people forget how "down" Bama was back then .. in the 7 years from 2000 up until Saban's first season in 2007, Bama lost 40 games, had 3 losing seasons and and missed bowl games three times (once due to sanctions from the Mike Dubose era .. and lets not act like Clemson isn't considered a dirty program with their IPTAY tag either).
 

BanditVol

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But his number of busts is actually pretty limited. 25% of all 5 star recruits go in the 1st round of the draft. Saban's 5 star recruits go in the 1st round at a 50% clip.
Doesn't matter. He still has to have the talent to begin with, and he does, in spades.

Besides, your stats sound made up. Nice round numbers! Got a link? I doubt it.
 

BanditVol

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Let's not act like all of Saban's titles were 10 years ago .. Bama beat Clemson 30-0 just two years ago .. Dabo can't win without a stud at QB .. couldn't do it with Taj Boyd, Kelly Bryant or anyone else not named Watson or Lawrence.
Well at least Dabo knows not to call a fake punt at the 50 yard line with 3 minutes left in a tie game. :D

But your comment gripes me. Dabo may need a stud QB (who doesn't???) but bammer still has far more talent than even Clemson and Clemson still kicked that big fat crimson ass. Speaks volumes. Dabo >>>> Saban.
 

bamawriter

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Besides, your stats sound made up. Nice round numbers! Got a link? I doubt it.
This is just discussing the SEC, and is a little old, but it's the best link I can find while on my phone:

https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/sec-football/correlation-5-star-to-first-round-pick/

As for Saban's number: you're right. I rounded. Given that he's had an odd number of 5 star recruits who have been up for the draft, a true 50% is not possible. The actual number is 48.5%. If you want the list, I'll provide it next time I'm on my laptop.
 

BanditVol

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This is just discussing the SEC, and is a little old, but it's the best link I can find while on my phone:

https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/sec-football/correlation-5-star-to-first-round-pick/

As for Saban's number: you're right. I rounded. Given that he's had an odd number of 5 star recruits who have been up for the draft, a true 50% is not possible. The actual number is 48.5%. If you want the list, I'll provide it next time I'm on my laptop.

Well the article you cite, which was a particular study, says this:

Alabama sent 14 players to the first round of the NFL draft from 2011 to 2015, including six of 15 five-star players. That calculates at a conversion rate (five-star to first-round pick) of 40 percent.

So for that particular study it was not 50%. I never said Saban didn't develop talent. He does. But like I also said, he has so much more of it than anyone else.
 

KBVol

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Reality is a B and our roster wasn’t better than Missouri or Vanderbilt.
I struggle with this thought honestly. If our roster was good enough to beat Auburn, it surely was good enough to beat Missouri and Vanderbilt. Sure seems that it should’ve been, however, when we watched them played, it wasnt close, both teams boat-raced us.

So, question is, was it just the rosters, or was it more our guys just weren’t ready and prepared to play? Honestly, I can’t discern the answer....perhaps it’s some of both?
 

DaddyChad

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I struggle with this thought honestly. If our roster was good enough to beat Auburn, it surely was good enough to beat Missouri and Vanderbilt. Sure seems that it should’ve been, however, when we watched them played, it wasnt close, both teams boat-raced us.

So, question is, was it just the rosters, or was it more our guys just weren’t ready and prepared to play? Honestly, I can’t discern the answer....perhaps it’s some of both?
I’ll simply say this, we were the worst Oline in the SEC and it wasn’t close. We could’ve beat Vandy imo or at least played them close; some kids just simply didn’t want those extra practices. That’s of course partially on Pruitt but those weren’t his players.

I would much more concerned if not for the win over Auburn and dismantling of Kentucky. Both of which were better teams than ours on paper.
 

bamawriter

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Well the article you cite, which was a particular study, says this:

Alabama sent 14 players to the first round of the NFL draft from 2011 to 2015, including six of 15 five-star players. That calculates at a conversion rate (five-star to first-round pick) of 40 percent.

So for that particular study it was not 50%. I never said Saban didn't develop talent. He does. But like I also said, he has so much more of it than anyone else.
Saban's five star to 1st round rate has actually improved since that article.
 

KBVol

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They are 2-2 over the last 4 meetings with Clumpson beating Bama handily last year but Bama beating Clumpson's brains in the year before. The two games before that were nail biters. Dabo has proven he has to have a generational QB to win and win big and he has miraculously pulled off having two of them in the last few years. Saban has won with everyone from McElroy to Sims to Tua. I think Clumpson is a curious team this year bringing back some offensive weaponry but they lost a ton on defense.

Nod still goes to Saban until Dabo can pull out another 4 rings
Of course the nod still goes to Saban, said as much in my post. Imho, Saban is the greatest coach in college football history. Just pointing out that those who think it’s “hilarious “ that someone would make an argument in favor of Dabo really haven’t studied the situation. I don’t agree with it per se, but a case can be made for Dabo.
 

TDawg

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Of course the nod still goes to Saban, said as much in my post. Imho, Saban is the greatest coach in college football history. Just pointing out that those who think it’s “hilarious “ that someone would make an argument in favor of Dabo really haven’t studied the situation. I don’t agree with it per se, but a case can be made for Dabo.
There's no doubt there KB just off of two titles in three years .. I mean, personally, I would bet neither you or I really care one way or another, but I pretty much agree with your entire post. I like to look at teams/coaches that have pulled in multiple titles in a short span whether it's the Patriots/Belichick, Bama/Saban, Clemson/Swinney or whoever and look for any patterns. If there is no real pattern like stud QB in each, or great DL in each or whatever, you start to look at maybe it's the coach. The Patriots may be different because even having Brady all of those years, there has been no other constant other than Brady/Belichick. Bama has had a lot of defensive studs in all three levels but they have also assembled great offensive talent as well. Dabo has been able to pull in multiple once in a generation QBs in just a few classes. But I'll also give him credit in this, he gets talent in a lot of other spots as well like his DL and WRs. He just hasn't been able to produce a title without a guy at QB that is all-world .. yet. He may one day do it, just hasn't happened yet.
 

DiderotsGhost

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I struggle with this thought honestly. If our roster was good enough to beat Auburn, it surely was good enough to beat Missouri and Vanderbilt. Sure seems that it should’ve been, however, when we watched them played, it wasnt close, both teams boat-raced us.

So, question is, was it just the rosters, or was it more our guys just weren’t ready and prepared to, and we play? Honestly, I can’t discern the answer....perhaps it’s some of both?
Auburn didn't game plan very well for us. Malzahn's offense was very predictable. The lasting memory from that game, for me, was Jeremy Pruitt looking at Auburn's offense pre-snap and then screaming out to the defensive players what play Auburn was going to run. Plus, it was one of the few games where our O-line played well and JG had time to throw.

I think Mizzou was the case of an offensive attack that we didn't have the personnel to defend against. Kentucky was 1-dimensional; you take away their running game and dare them to pass; they can't do it. Mizzou, on the other hand, had one of the most balanced offenses in the SEC and felt like that stretched our defense beyond its capabilities.

The Vandy game is the one that's still a head-scratcher for me. Felt like poor defensive effort, poor strategy; but we failed in pretty much every phase of the game.
 
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volgrad500

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Auburn didn't game plan very well for us. Malzahn's offense was very predictable. The lasting memory from that game, for me, was Jeremy Pruitt looking at Auburn's offense pre-snap and then screaming out to the defensive players what play Auburn was going to run. Plus, it was one of the few games where our O-line played well and JG had time to throw.

I think Mizzou was the case of an offensive attack that we didn't have the personnel to defend against. Kentucky was 1-dimensional; you take away their running game and dare them to pass; they can't do it. Mizzou, on the other hand, had one of the most balanced offenses in the SEC and felt like that stretched our defense beyond its capabilities.

The Vandy game is the one that's still a head-scratcher for me. Felt like poor defensive effort, poor strategy; but we failed in pretty much every phase of the game.
Kentucky was one of the most overrated teams I've seen in 30 years. The fact they were ranked as high as they were was laughable. I watched most of their games, and even when they won, you came away wondering how the hell they did it. An average team at best. I can't wait to kick their ass again.
 

BanditVol

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Dabo has been able to pull in multiple once in a generation QBs in just a few classes.

He just hasn't been able to produce a title without a guy at QB that is all-world .. yet. He may one day do it, just hasn't happened yet.
Your first sentance is contradictory. A generation is about 20 years.

But at the end of the day, so what? QB is arguably the most important position on the field, so of course a good QB would contribute to success.

I give Dabo credit for jettisoning Kelly Bryant and going with Trevor Lawrence at the start of the season. It took an act of desperation in the SECC to get Saban to make a similar move.
 

bamawriter

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As for Saban's number: you're right. I rounded. Given that he's had an odd number of 5 star recruits who have been up for the draft, a true 50% is not possible. The actual number is 48.5%. If you want the list, I'll provide it next time I'm on my laptop.
Actually, I was wrong here. I counted one guy twice.

According to the 247 Composite, Saban has had 30 5-star recruits who played their entire career at Alabama and have been thru the draft.

Of those 30, 15 were drafted in the 1st round:
Julio Jones, DJ Fluker, Dre Kirkpatrick, Trent Richardson, Dee Milliner, HaHa Clinton-Dix, OJ Howard, Jonathan Allen, Reuben Foster, Rashaan Evans, Marlon Humphrey, Minkah Fitzpatrick, Daron Payne, Calvin Ridley, and Jonah Williams

Another 6 went in the top 50 picks:
Landon Collins (33), Cam Robinson (34), TJ Yeldon (36), Cyrus Kouandjio (44), Derrick Henry (45), and A'Shawn Robinson (46)

The remaining guys went in the 3rd, 4th, 4th, 5th, 7th, and 4 went undrafted.

So, there you go @BanditVol .
 

TDawg

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Your first sentance is contradictory. A generation is about 20 years.

But at the end of the day, so what? QB is arguably the most important position on the field, so of course a good QB would contribute to success.

I give Dabo credit for jettisoning Kelly Bryant and going with Trevor Lawrence at the start of the season. It took an act of desperation in the SECC to get Saban to make a similar move.
Uhhh, figure of speech but we are talking two of the best QBs to come through college in a long long time and both play(ed) for Clemson within a 4 year span. That's pretty incredible. The point is the same. Dabo has had a handful of talented teams but without a top 2 QB, he doesn't get the win. With Taj Boyd, they had a lot of talent around him and never got lose to a natty and with Kelly Bryant that ton of talent they won a natty with just the year before got to the playoffs off a weak ACC schedule and got clubbed to death by Bama. Insert T-Law the very next year and all is back to what it was with Watson.

Yes, Saban had to pull Hurts who got them to the title game to lose against Watson and put in Tua but he has also won natty's with an array of QBs .. in a "what have you done for me lately" world, Saban has a title just two years ago and has 6 altogether.
 

KBVol

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Auburn didn't game plan very well for us. Malzahn's offense was very predictable. The lasting memory from that game, for me, was Jeremy Pruitt looking at Auburn's offense pre-snap and then screaming out to the defensive players what play Auburn was going to run. Plus, it was one of the few games where our O-line played well and JG had time to throw.

I think Mizzou was the case of an offensive attack that we didn't have the personnel to defend against. Kentucky was 1-dimensional; you take away their running game and dare them to pass; they can't do it. Mizzou, on the other hand, had one of the most balanced offenses in the SEC and felt like that stretched our defense beyond its capabilities.

The Vandy game is the one that's still a head-scratcher for me. Felt like poor defensive effort, poor strategy; but we failed in pretty much every phase of the game.
No doubt that personnel matchups and schemes play a big role into game outcomes. Certainly agree with you there. But both Vandy and Mizzou just lined up and physically dominated us as well. It was just that we couldn’t defend Missouri’s passing game, we also couldn’t stop their run and they **** down our offense.
 

BanditVol

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Uhhh, figure of speech but we are talking two of the best QBs to come through college in a long long time and both play(ed) for Clemson within a 4 year span. That's pretty incredible. The point is the same. Dabo has had a handful of talented teams but without a top 2 QB, he doesn't get the win. With Taj Boyd, they had a lot of talent around him and never got lose to a natty and with Kelly Bryant that ton of talent they won a natty with just the year before got to the playoffs off a weak ACC schedule and got clubbed to death by Bama. Insert T-Law the very next year and all is back to what it was with Watson.

Yes, Saban had to pull Hurts who got them to the title game to lose against Watson and put in Tua but he has also won natty's with an array of QBs .. in a "what have you done for me lately" world, Saban has a title just two years ago and has 6 altogether.

I think you are overating Taylor. He played well in the MNC, but he had a ton of other talent around him, particularly on defense. DeShaun Watson is validated in the NFL, at least so far, but even then is he the best QB in the NFL right now? He's good, but I'm not sure I'd call him once in a generation just yet.
 

RDU VOL#14

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Your first sentance is contradictory. A generation is about 20 years.

But at the end of the day, so what? QB is arguably the most important position on the field, so of course a good QB would contribute to success.

I give Dabo credit for jettisoning Kelly Bryant and going with Trevor Lawrence at the start of the season. It took an act of desperation in the SECC to get Saban to make a similar move.
With Bryant at the helm they couldn’t pass the ball down field and like you said, Dabo knew this and they were a different team. It will interesting see how they handle all the success they’ve had. Everybody is patting them on the back right now. Dabo is getting his $93 million , throwing out first pitches, kissing babies, Lawrence is Vegas favorite to win the Heisman. They had success obviously, but now this is a different level. We’ll see how really great Dabo is now sustaining success.
 

TC0103

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Saban has six rings and has lost 14 games at Bama since 2008. While playing a much tougher schedule than Dabo.

Dabo has lost to 4-8 Syracuse and 8-5 Pittsburgh since building up a Bama-like roster. Can you imagine Saban losing to teams like that?
Except that if you read the methodology it’s not just a listing of career resumes. If that was the case then it’s all objective and this exercise is pointless. I think it was supposed to be more like “who would you rather have right now and going forward” or “whose stock are you buying right now?” Under that framework, certainly a 49-year old Dabo on a roll right now has more appeal than Saban who is 20 years older.

Pruitt ranked way too low on this list even by his toughest critics. Manny Diaz and Barry Odom well ahead of him? Yeah, not really getting that...
 

KBVol

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With Bryant at the helm they couldn’t pass the ball down field and like you said, Dabo knew this and they were a different team. It will interesting see how they handle all the success they’ve had. Everybody is patting them on the back right now. Dabo is getting his $93 million , throwing out first pitches, kissing babies, Lawrence is Vegas favorite to win the Heisman. They had success obviously, but now this is a different level. We’ll see how really great Dabo is now sustaining success.
11-2
11-2
10-3
14-1
14-1
12-2
15-0

Those are Dabo’s last 7 seasons, which include 3 trips to the national championship game and a couple of natties while beating Alabama. Pretty sure he’s already established that he’s good....really good.....at sustaining success.
 

RDU VOL#14

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11-2
11-2
10-3
14-1
14-1
12-2
15-0

Those are Dabo’s last 7 seasons, which include 3 trips to the national championship game and a couple of natties while beating Alabama. Pretty sure he’s already established that he’s good....really good.....at sustaining success.
True. I think i was just meaning that after beating Bama the way they did people just look at them now like they not only belong, but are also Bama’s equal or some talking heads think they have already surpassed them.
 

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