Question on division tie breaker

#1
chargervol

chargervol

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#1
Local sports radio received a phone in question this afternoon that peaked my interest but I missed the answer. Any help is appreciated.

The caller asked 'In the event of a 3 way tie in the east -
we beat UF, UF beats UGA and UGA beats UT.. And we all finish with 1 loss (or 2, all sec losses), what settles the 3 way tie now'?
In the BCS system, it was ranking.
While the hosts initially guessed it to be the now play-off rankings, they seemed to be reading an in place rule that suggested a different way of handling.
As I pointed out, I missed the final conclusion but the more I thought about the matter, the more I decided it was as good an off season discussion as any.

Thanks in advance.
 
#2
#2
Whoever is ranked highest wins I think, I can't remember for sure.
 
#3
#3
joevol33 said:
Whoever is ranked highest wins I think, I can't remember for sure.
Click to expand...

I believe that you're right. Happened to us one year. Us, UF & UGA. UGA ranked highest and went iirc. 2003? Then we won some kinda tie breaker and went. 2007 or 04? Too lazy to look.
 
#4
#4
I believe we are still under the rule that says that the tiebreaker accounts for cross divisional record.
For example if we go 1 and 1 to our West foes and UF or UGA go 2 and 0, they would win.
If two teams have the same cross divisional record, the team that beat the other in the three way wins.
Now the tricky part...what if all three end up with the same cross divisional record...in that case I believe it does then fall into the playoff standings poll.
 
#5
#5
Three-Team Tie (or more): If three teams (or more) are tied for a division title, the following procedure will be used in the following order: (Note: If one of the procedures results in one team being eliminated and two remaining, the two-team tiebreaker procedure as stated in No. 1 above will be used):

A. Combined head to head record among the tied teams;

B. Record of the tied teams within the division;

C. Head to head competition against the team within the division with the best overall Conference record (divisional and non divisional) and proceeding through the division (multiple ties within the division will be broken from first to last and a tie for first place will be broken before a tie for fourth place);

D. Overall Conference record against non divisional teams;

E. Combined record against all common non divisional teams;

F. Record against the common non divisional team with the best overall Conference record (divisional and non divisional) and proceeding through other common non divisional teams based on their order of finish within their division; and

G. Best cumulative Conference winning percentage of non-divisional opponents (Note: If two teams' non-divisional opponents have the same cumulative record, then the two-team tiebreaker procedures apply. If four teams are tied, and three teams' non-divisional opponents have the same cumulative record, the three-team tiebreaker procedures will be used beginning with 2.A.);

H. Coin flip of the tied teams with the team with the odd result being the representative (Example: If there are two teams with tails and one team with heads, the team with heads is the representative).

Source: SEC Divisional Tie-Breaker
 
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#7
#7
chargervol said:
Local sports radio received a phone in question this afternoon that peaked my interest but I missed the answer. Any help is appreciated.

The caller asked 'In the event of a 3 way tie in the east -
we beat UF, UF beats UGA and UGA beats UT.. And we all finish with 1 loss (or 2, all sec losses), what settles the 3 way tie now'?
In the BCS system, it was ranking.
While the hosts initially guessed it to be the now play-off rankings, they seemed to be reading an in place rule that suggested a different way of handling.
As I pointed out, I missed the final conclusion but the more I thought about the matter, the more I decided it was as good an off season discussion as any.

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

I would expect it would take a slide rule to interpret the rule, to make it easier I would be willing to go with the team that scored the most points for the year. That rule would encourage teams to keep scoring. That would help CBJ to keep scoring points.

2016, time to run it up!

Jump higher Vols.
 
#8
#8
Orangetoes said:
Three-Team Tie (or more): If three teams (or more) are tied for a division title, the following procedure will be used in the following order: (Note: If one of the procedures results in one team being eliminated and two remaining, the two-team tiebreaker procedure as stated in No. 1 above will be used):

A. Combined head to head record among the tied teams;

B. Record of the tied teams within the division;

C. Head to head competition against the team within the division with the best overall Conference record (divisional and non divisional) and proceeding through the division (multiple ties within the division will be broken from first to last and a tie for first place will be broken before a tie for fourth place);

D. Overall Conference record against non divisional teams;

E. Combined record against all common non divisional teams;

F. Record against the common non divisional team with the best overall Conference record (divisional and non divisional) and proceeding through other common non divisional teams based on their order of finish within their division; and

G. Best cumulative Conference winning percentage of non-divisional opponents (Note: If two teams' non-divisional opponents have the same cumulative record, then the two-team tiebreaker procedures apply. If four teams are tied, and three teams' non-divisional opponents have the same cumulative record, the three-team tiebreaker procedures will be used beginning with 2.A.);

H. Coin flip of the tied teams with the team with the odd result being the representative (Example: If there are two teams with tails and one team with heads, the team with heads is the representative).

Source: SEC Divisional Tie-Breaker
Click to expand...

After reading this I am reminded of the old baseball comedy routine about Who's on 1st base, What's on 2nd, and I Don't Know is on 3rd by Bud Abbot and Lou Costello.
 
#9
#9
joevol33 said:
Whoever is ranked highest wins I think, I can't remember for sure.
Click to expand...

livefaith said:
I believe that you're right. Happened to us one year. Us, UF & UGA. UGA ranked highest and went iirc. 2003? Then we won some kinda tie breaker and went. 2007 or 04? Too lazy to look.
Click to expand...

No, it's not anymore. The "highest ranking" as the 7th tiebreaker was only created in relation to the BCS rankings used at the time.

And even then, it only came into being because, previously, that level of tiebreaker had been a vote by conference members, which in all honesty was an idea rife with all sorts of potential controversy.

(And honestly, the concern made sense...people at UF, UGA, and UT were all arguing that it were left up to a vote, it wouldn't be fair.

Who's to say, for example, LSU wouldn't just have voted for which team it thought might be the easiest opponent - they had just gotten away from UGA that year with a 17-10 win and lost 17-9 to UF.

Or that Alabama's, Vanderbilt's, and Kentucky's feelings on Tennessee, or Auburn's feelings on Florida and Georgia, or South Carolina's feelings on UGA, or anyone in the West's feelings on LSU wouldn't have effected the votes they actually cast for LSU's opponent?)




Also, it was 2003.


2004 and 2007 were just two-way ties between Tennessee and Georgia, which Tennessee held the tiebreaker over from having beat Georgia.
 
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#10
#10
chargervol said:
Local sports radio received a phone in question this afternoon that peaked my interest but I missed the answer. Any help is appreciated.

The caller asked 'In the event of a 3 way tie in the east -
we beat UF, UF beats UGA and UGA beats UT.. And we all finish with 1 loss (or 2, all sec losses), what settles the 3 way tie now'?
In the BCS system, it was ranking.
While the hosts initially guessed it to be the now play-off rankings, they seemed to be reading an in place rule that suggested a different way of handling.
As I pointed out, I missed the final conclusion but the more I thought about the matter, the more I decided it was as good an off season discussion as any.

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's not playoff rankings.
 
#12
#12
Why are we debating this when we know vandy will win the east (don't know how to blue font)
 
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#13
#13
Orangetoes said:
Three-Team Tie (or more): If three teams (or more) are tied for a division title, the following procedure will be used in the following order: (Note: If one of the procedures results in one team being eliminated and two remaining, the two-team tiebreaker procedure as stated in No. 1 above will be used):

A. Combined head to head record among the tied teams;

B. Record of the tied teams within the division;

C. Head to head competition against the team within the division with the best overall Conference record (divisional and non divisional) and proceeding through the division (multiple ties within the division will be broken from first to last and a tie for first place will be broken before a tie for fourth place);

D. Overall Conference record against non divisional teams;

E. Combined record against all common non divisional teams;

F. Record against the common non divisional team with the best overall Conference record (divisional and non divisional) and proceeding through other common non divisional teams based on their order of finish within their division; and

G. Best cumulative Conference winning percentage of non-divisional opponents (Note: If two teams' non-divisional opponents have the same cumulative record, then the two-team tiebreaker procedures apply. If four teams are tied, and three teams' non-divisional opponents have the same cumulative record, the three-team tiebreaker procedures will be used beginning with 2.A.);

H. Coin flip of the tied teams with the team with the odd result being the representative (Example: If there are two teams with tails and one team with heads, the team with heads is the representative).

Source: SEC Divisional Tie-Breaker
Click to expand...
It would be amazing if the division winner came down to H. Coin Flip.
 
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#20
#20
Orangetoes said:
The conspiracy types probably won't be upset about the coin flip. But they'll lose it if it's a Florida alum flipping it...
Click to expand...

Please, the SEC headquarters members could flip all the coins and there would be claims of favoritism.

The Prime Minister of Britain, Garth Brooks, and the Philly Phanatic could be handling the coin toss and some of them would shout bias.

Three UT alumni could be flipping the coins and if UT lost...well, there wouldn't be conspiracy claims, but I'm afraid they'd end up receiving some very harsh, angry language in letters that later we'd all be ashamed of.
 
#21
#21
Orangetoes said:
Three-Team Tie (or more): If three teams (or more) are tied for a division title, the following procedure will be used in the following order: (Note: If one of the procedures results in one team being eliminated and two remaining, the two-team tiebreaker procedure as stated in No. 1 above will be used):

A. Combined head to head record among the tied teams;

B. Record of the tied teams within the division;

C. Head to head competition against the team within the division with the best overall Conference record (divisional and non divisional) and proceeding through the division (multiple ties within the division will be broken from first to last and a tie for first place will be broken before a tie for fourth place);

D. Overall Conference record against non divisional teams;

E. Combined record against all common non divisional teams;

F. Record against the common non divisional team with the best overall Conference record (divisional and non divisional) and proceeding through other common non divisional teams based on their order of finish within their division; and

G. Best cumulative Conference winning percentage of non-divisional opponents (Note: If two teams' non-divisional opponents have the same cumulative record, then the two-team tiebreaker procedures apply. If four teams are tied, and three teams' non-divisional opponents have the same cumulative record, the three-team tiebreaker procedures will be used beginning with 2.A.);

H. Coin flip of the tied teams with the team with the odd result being the representative (Example: If there are two teams with tails and one team with heads, the team with heads is the representative).

Source: SEC Divisional Tie-Breaker
Click to expand...

Thank you.
And thanks to others that answered but I believe many misunderstood. The "better record" answer didn't work because the question was "tied" - as in even their record, in conference or otherwise. I knew it was rankings during the BCS but figured it must be a new system now.

Oh, and Ot, my pc was getting and upgrade and I was using a SlOOWWW laptop last night. So you doing the search was really a big help. Plus I thought the discussion of it ever happening was a decent topic.
Freak nailed it with how amazing it would be if it ever reached coin toss status.
 
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#23
#23
IndianaVol said:
I believe we are still under the rule that says that the tiebreaker accounts for cross divisional record.
For example if we go 1 and 1 to our West foes and UF or UGA go 2 and 0, they would win.
If two teams have the same cross divisional record, the team that beat the other in the three way wins.
Now the tricky part...what if all three end up with the same cross divisional record...in that case I believe it does then fall into the playoff standings poll.
Click to expand...

No offense, but this cannot possibly be correct in any league.
If three teams tie and all beat each other, they would use division record. We don't play the same teams from the West, so it would be erroneous to settle it based on record vs the West. Using your hypothetical, the team that went 1-1 vs the West would win over the teams that went 2-0, because the 1-1 team would have a better East record if the teams are tied.
 
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#24
#24
Orangetoes said:
Three-Team Tie (or more): If three teams (or more) are tied for a division title, the following procedure will be used in the following order: (Note: If one of the procedures results in one team being eliminated and two remaining, the two-team tiebreaker procedure as stated in No. 1 above will be used):

A. Combined head to head record among the tied teams;

B. Record of the tied teams within the division;

C. Head to head competition against the team within the division with the best overall Conference record (divisional and non divisional) and proceeding through the division (multiple ties within the division will be broken from first to last and a tie for first place will be broken before a tie for fourth place);

D. Overall Conference record against non divisional teams;

E. Combined record against all common non divisional teams;

F. Record against the common non divisional team with the best overall Conference record (divisional and non divisional) and proceeding through other common non divisional teams based on their order of finish within their division; and

G. Best cumulative Conference winning percentage of non-divisional opponents (Note: If two teams' non-divisional opponents have the same cumulative record, then the two-team tiebreaker procedures apply. If four teams are tied, and three teams' non-divisional opponents have the same cumulative record, the three-team tiebreaker procedures will be used beginning with 2.A.);

H. Coin flip of the tied teams with the team with the odd result being the representative (Example: If there are two teams with tails and one team with heads, the team with heads is the representative).

Source: SEC Divisional Tie-Breaker
Click to expand...

D is irrelevant, because if three teams have the same SEC record and the same East record, then they will obviously also have the same West record.

E and F are irrelevant, because we only play two teams from the other division. It is impossible for three East teams to all play the same West team in the same regular season.
 
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