Question about Elander

#1
bpalmer28

bpalmer28

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#1
I have a theory, but I'm just a spectator who watches on TV, so maybe it's just a bad interpretation of what's going on.

It seems to me like Elander entered the season like he's still "one of the guys" instead of "THE guy". It feels like we replaced Vitello with a committee of coaches instead of a true head coach. That does NOT mean I think Elander can't be a true leader. I just don't think he's settled into the role very well at this point. The reason for me thinking this way is a combination of things: beginning the season coaching from third, constantly talking to other coaches instead of observing the game (often completely looking away from the action), and being slow to make a change when pitchers are struggling. He hasn't shown that he has a good feel for the game. One red flag for me was when he didn't immediately send someone to check on Landon Mack when he grabbed his oblique. Instead, he let the count run to 3-0 with Landon grabbing his side after ever pitch. In that moment I wondered if Elander was even watching the game. He never stopped the game to check on him - our catcher had to do it.

My theory is that we don't have a true leader at head coach, and our players are putting too much pressure on themselves to lead and therefore not playing well.

I'd like to see Elander isolate himself more when we are on the field instead of having 3 assistants in his ear non-stop. How can anyone have a good feel for the game when someone is constantly in their ear? I'm all for good communication, but if you watch successful coaches, you'll notice that when their players are on the field they are locked in - observing body language and reading the situation. When the camera cuts to Elander, he's usually either talking to somebody or somebody is talking to him.

Has anyone else noticed this or am I imaging things and making something out of nothing?
 
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#2
#2
bpalmer28 said:
I have a theory, but I'm just a spectator who watches on TV, so maybe it's just a bad interpretation of what's going on.

It seems to me like Elander entered the season like he's still "one of the guys" instead of "THE guy". It feels like we replaced Vitello with a committee of coaches instead of a true head coach. That does NOT mean I think Elander can't be a true leader. I just don't think he's settled into the role very well at this point. The reason for me thinking this way is a combination of things: beginning the season coaching from third, constantly talking to other coaches instead of observing the game (often completely looking away from the action), and being slow to make a change when pitchers are struggling. He hasn't shown that he has a good feel for the game. One red flag for me was when he didn't immediately send someone to check on Landon Mack when he grabbed his oblique. Instead, he let the count run to 3-0 with Landon grabbing his side after ever pitch. In that moment I wondered if Elander was even watching the game. He never stopped the game to check on him - our catcher had to do it.

My theory is that we don't have a true leader at head coach, and our players are putting too much pressure on themselves to lead and therefore not playing well.

I'd like to see Elander isolate himself more when we are on the field instead of having 3 assistants in his ear non-stop. How can anyone have a good feel for the game when someone is constantly in their ear? I'm all for good communication, but if you watch successful coaches, you'll notice that when their players are on the field they are locked in - observing body language and reading the situation. When the camera cuts to Elander, he's usually either talking to somebody or somebody is talking to him.

Has anyone else noticed this or am I imaging things and making something out of nothing?
Click to expand...
Seems like a bunch of something out of nothing to me IMO
 
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#4
#4
I'm going to reference new Head Coaches not Elander.
Being a HC is totally different than being an AC. AC's make decisions but usually do not have to own them. They give input into the final decision.
A good HC will surround himself with people that he trusts. If you go back TV did it when he was new. He listened to Frank all the time which is why I believe he brought him in. Frank had been a HC and had a lot of experience as PC. As time grew, he listened less in games and made decisions. I think a good new HC is getting all the information he can get and processing it as fast as he can. He has to trust his PC for pitchers, hitting coach for hitters and so on. But he must be the final say.
Elander:
When you have been the hitting coach for 8 years, it is hard to shift gears and watch pitchers on offense. You are used to processing the next inning for hitting not watching the pitchers. That takes time for anyone. You have to trust that someone else is giving you information.
I'm sure he is also having to figure out what to do when we are batting since so many of you and others screamed that he needed to get back in the dugout during the batting side of an inning. Now he has to figure out what he is supposed to do. He has been at third for 8 1/2 years. people got what they wanted but are still not happy.
It is a process. He will evaluate his staff and himself after the year. That process is so chaotic during college that it is hard to grasp for the outsiders/fans watching. You also realize he is still the lead recruiter so that is happening hard and heavy right now. His world has changed with very little preparation. He was put in the position in the middle of fall. So he has not had time to catch his breath. It is still not HIS team. He is still having to do thing the way they have always been done. It will take time.
 
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#5
#5
There are always gonna be the one who find no fault. Im not one of those. I dont have a dislike for Josh. I dont know what the future holds for him as the head coach. But after watching how many times this season he has been late to make a decision and letting pitchers walk the bases loaded a few times i dont understand why he cant see that a pitcher just doesnt have it. He should know this without hesitation and make those decisions a little faster. I know he is learning on the job. But i honestly think this was another DW making a cheaper hire than hiring JE because the players wanted him. It was quick. He didnt have to go out and find someone. And if this fails he can say well i gave the players what they wanted. But in all honesty he should have hired someone with a proven track record as a head coach.
 
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#6
#6
cwbytruckers said:
There are always gonna be the one who find no fault. Im not one of those. I dont have a dislike for Josh. I dont know what the future holds for him as the head coach. But after watching how many times this season he has been late to make a decision and letting pitchers walk the bases loaded a few times i dont understand why he cant see that a pitcher just doesnt have it. He should know this without hesitation and make those decisions a little faster. I know he is learning on the job. But i honestly think this was another DW making a cheaper hire than hiring JE because the players wanted him. It was quick. He didnt have to go out and find someone. And if this fails he can say well i gave the players what they wanted. But in all honesty he should have hired someone with a proven track record as a head coach.
Click to expand...

So you would have not hired CTV?
 
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#7
#7
@1RBFjr said:
So you would have not hired CTV?
Click to expand...
Thats not what i am saying. Before TV the team wasnt at a point that it is now. We needed someone that was ready to keep taking us to where TV got us. Building a team is somewhat easier than sustaining one. But the most valid point that can be made about this season is not who the head coach is. But losing FA hurts more than any of us probably thought it would.
 
#8
#8
cwbytruckers said:
There are always gonna be the one who find no fault. Im not one of those. I dont have a dislike for Josh. I dont know what the future holds for him as the head coach. But after watching how many times this season he has been late to make a decision and letting pitchers walk the bases loaded a few times i dont understand why he cant see that a pitcher just doesnt have it. He should know this without hesitation and make those decisions a little faster. I know he is learning on the job. But i honestly think this was another DW making a cheaper hire than hiring JE because the players wanted him. It was quick. He didnt have to go out and find someone. And if this fails he can say well i gave the players what they wanted. But in all honesty he should have hired someone with a proven track record as a head coach.
Click to expand...
It's been pretty much said that DW was forced to hire Elander by boosters.

I also think it was the correct hire anyway
 
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#10
#10
Guys like Frank Anderson don’t grow on trees. Had he stayed, I think we’d see a much different team.
Elander is hard to read because he is unemotional and not an extrovert. There’s been several occasions where Josh should have gotten on the umps and didn’t. Tony was a maniac. Frank knew how to get a rise ans well. Both of those guys would have been warned or thrown out based on this teams lackluster approach. Josh seems almost passive. Granted, this team doesn’t have a lot of jump off the page leaders, and this is a year you need some dudes.
 
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#11
#11
VolFan_stuck_in_the_901 said:
Right now, I'd love to see him chew some of his assistant's out for the "performance" of their units; especially a certain assistant who carries himself like he's Temu Tony V and has a segment on a show with Mike Keith every Thursday
Click to expand...
Kivett coaches the infield, and they have been great this year, at least much more improved from last year.

Fail to see your point here
 
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#12
#12
rockytop25 said:
Kivett coaches the infield, and they have been great this year, at least much more improved from last year.

Fail to see your point here
Click to expand...
My point is when you are 4-8 in SEC play, your assistants need to be with their guys grinding it out instead of hosting a "talk show segment" on the Internet. If Tony were still here, Kiv's Corner would currently be on hiatus.
 
#13
#13
VolFan_stuck_in_the_901 said:
My point is when you are 4-8 in SEC play, your assistants need to be with their guys grinding it out instead of hosting a "talk show segment" on the Internet. If Tony were still here, Kiv's Corner would currently be on hiatus.
Click to expand...

I don't know, man. Kivett might...MIGHT... spend an hour a week tops on Kivett's Corner? MK lays out all the work for it. And some of them are even taped weeks ahead so some weeks its zero time.

I know we all want to pick nits when things are rough but this feels extremely picky.
 
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#15
#15
preacherman20 said:
I'm going to reference new Head Coaches not Elander.
Being a HC is totally different than being an AC. AC's make decisions but usually do not have to own them. They give input into the final decision.
A good HC will surround himself with people that he trusts. If you go back TV did it when he was new. He listened to Frank all the time which is why I believe he brought him in. Frank had been a HC and had a lot of experience as PC. As time grew, he listened less in games and made decisions. I think a good new HC is getting all the information he can get and processing it as fast as he can. He has to trust his PC for pitchers, hitting coach for hitters and so on. But he must be the final say.
Elander:
When you have been the hitting coach for 8 years, it is hard to shift gears and watch pitchers on offense. You are used to processing the next inning for hitting not watching the pitchers. That takes time for anyone. You have to trust that someone else is giving you information.
I'm sure he is also having to figure out what to do when we are batting since so many of you and others screamed that he needed to get back in the dugout during the batting side of an inning. Now he has to figure out what he is supposed to do. He has been at third for 8 1/2 years. people got what they wanted but are still not happy.
It is a process. He will evaluate his staff and himself after the year. That process is so chaotic during college that it is hard to grasp for the outsiders/fans watching. You also realize he is still the lead recruiter so that is happening hard and heavy right now. His world has changed with very little preparation. He was put in the position in the middle of fall. So he has not had time to catch his breath. It is still not HIS team. He is still having to do thing the way they have always been done. It will take time.
Click to expand...
So, what you are saying is AD took the easy way out and didn't look for a "replacement HC" for a program near the top of college baseball where the HC is very important to maintain momentum.
 
#17
#17
preacherman20 said:
I'm going to reference new Head Coaches not Elander.
Being a HC is totally different than being an AC. AC's make decisions but usually do not have to own them. They give input into the final decision.
A good HC will surround himself with people that he trusts. If you go back TV did it when he was new. He listened to Frank all the time which is why I believe he brought him in. Frank had been a HC and had a lot of experience as PC. As time grew, he listened less in games and made decisions. I think a good new HC is getting all the information he can get and processing it as fast as he can. He has to trust his PC for pitchers, hitting coach for hitters and so on. But he must be the final say.
Elander:
When you have been the hitting coach for 8 years, it is hard to shift gears and watch pitchers on offense. You are used to processing the next inning for hitting not watching the pitchers. That takes time for anyone. You have to trust that someone else is giving you information.
I'm sure he is also having to figure out what to do when we are batting since so many of you and others screamed that he needed to get back in the dugout during the batting side of an inning. Now he has to figure out what he is supposed to do. He has been at third for 8 1/2 years. people got what they wanted but are still not happy.
It is a process. He will evaluate his staff and himself after the year. That process is so chaotic during college that it is hard to grasp for the outsiders/fans watching. You also realize he is still the lead recruiter so that is happening hard and heavy right now. His world has changed with very little preparation. He was put in the position in the middle of fall. So he has not had time to catch his breath. It is still not HIS team. He is still having to do thing the way they have always been done. It will take time.
Click to expand...
These are all good points, and exactly why I did not like turning over a top 5 program to a guy with no HC experience. I still support the team and actually go watch them, however if Elander doesn’t quickly learn the nuisances of being the “man”, the program will return to the depths it previously held. The SEC eats up inexperience in coaches, just like it’s players.
 
#18
#18
@1RBFjr said:
So you would have not hired CTV?
Click to expand...
When Tony was hired, the program was not a national prominent program. If Barnes suddenly decides to retire tomorrow, do you just want to give the job to an assistant in a couple of days. How about football, which of CJH’s assistant do you want to take over if Josh is gone tomorrow.
 
#19
#19
rockytop25 said:
Kivett coaches the infield, and they have been great this year, at least much more improved from last year.

Fail to see your point here
Click to expand...
Tied for 1st in SEC in fielding percentage.
VolFan_stuck_in_the_901 said:
My point is when you are 4-8 in SEC play, your assistants need to be with their guys grinding it out instead of hosting a "talk show segment" on the Internet. If Tony were still here, Kiv's Corner would currently be on hiatus.
Click to expand...
I hear you but I think UT Baseball needs to engage more with fans—not less. Kivett has the right outgoing personality to do that. It’s probably an hour commitment per week and Mike Keith tees everything up for him.
 
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#21
#21
taylorvol said:
Tied for 1st in SEC in fielding percentage.

I hear you but I think UT Baseball needs to engage more with fans—not less. Kivett has the right outgoing personality to do that. It’s probably an hour commitment per week and Mike Keith tees everything up for him.
Click to expand...
This is a good point.... I've been hanging out with Sam a bit too much lately and I think he may be rubbing off on me a little
 
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#24
#24
VolFan_stuck_in_the_901 said:
That he is 😂 If there is one thing I will agree with him on 100%, it's that Stovall is a massive downgrade on Sean McCann from an analytics standpoint
Click to expand...
McCann was so underrated in his role. He was a huge mentor and confidante to Vitelllo. His prior experience as a college coach and scout/national cross checker for PBR was invaluable in his role at UT. He was a huge loss for sure.
 
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#25
#25
Regarding Kivett's show with Mike Keith - does anyone enjoy it? I do not think he is a good personality for this, it is goofy and annoying. Just have the players on there. I could care less about time spent on it, I just think it is not a great segment.
 
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