PWO and NIL

#51

1world1love

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#51
Why not go the other way and limit the number of portal transfers per season? If you limit the number of high school recruits per school to 20 or even fewer, then you are forcing schools to go to the portal more. I would prefer to see a limit on total roster size throughout the season and a limit on the number of transfers.
I guess the way I look at it, teams are now able to fill spots through the portal, and if you allow a 5th year of eligibility for graduates, then it makes sense to start to bring down the number of HS spots you can take. This would help to distribute the talent better. It would be different if there was no portal, but there is. What is happening, and will start to get worse as people find ways to abuse NIL, is that the top teams will stockpile talent to the detriment of the game. If you bring down the number of HS spots, you make more transfer spots available which provides more opportunity for those guys looking for a spot, and you prevent the best players from sitting on the bench at OSU or Bama when they could be competing at other schools.

This would probably help to bring down the number of transfers because you would have fewer young players sitting on the bench. Sure, the 20 players signed by the big teams will still represent the bulk of blue-chippers, but those last 5 spots can be important.

Think about it like this. How many guys have we been battling up to NSD with Bama or UGA over the years? If they had 5 fewer spots, then we would be more competitive for those guys, as would Ole Miss, VT, UNC, etc.

It would just be better for the sport, I think.
 
#52

GUNTERSVOL

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#52
So a player can be told they can't continue their athletic career AND schooling at their chosen school, even as a walk on, because their NIL is too high?

Yeah. That sounds legal. The NCAA was JUST TOLD by the court in Alston v NCAA that they can't limit scholastic benefits but the court will be happy to let the NCAA limit ====non-scholastic, not even involved with school==== funds athletes might obtain.

What kind of world do you envision? Should your employer be limited by some entity from hiring you because you make too much money already? They should hire someone poorer than you?

My God, man, look at your vision here.
My vision is to pursue a level playing field that has been increasingly slanted without this level of professionalism forced on it. Spread the wealth while still letting them pick from schools with cap space. Let the rich guys put their money out there for these mega marketable kids but not TOTALLY INFLUENCE their destinations. There will still be a place for the cookie, burger, and chicken wing deals that will be unaffected by these control measures. T. Boone Pickens types could bring in the top ten kids every year without some mechanism. Even the pros have a draft, but not practical with hundreds of schools. If the model really works the kids could cut their deals and then pick their spots of the hats they normally have on the table and the money folks will know they are limited in their ability to use their money to aid their school of choice.
 
#53

SayUWantAreVOLution

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#53
My vision is to pursue a level playing field that has been increasingly slanted without this level of professionalism forced on it. Spread the wealth while still letting them pick from schools with cap space. Let the rich guys put their money out there for these mega marketable kids but not TOTALLY INFLUENCE their destinations. There will still be a place for the cookie, burger, and chicken wing deals that will be unaffected by these control measures. T. Boone Pickens types could bring in the top ten kids every year without some mechanism. Even the pros have a draft, but not practical with hundreds of schools. If the model really works the kids could cut their deals and then pick their spots of the hats they normally have on the table and the money folks will know they are limited in their ability to use their money to aid their school of choice.
I'm not against looking for parity but the NCAA has already seen the court's uneasiness with the lack of revenue sharing for college players.

If the NCAA tries to cap NIL, players will sue and win and the next lawsuit will LIKELY call the athletes employees. It's truly over for the student-athlete model when that happens.

That's why the NCAA won't limit NIL. They really want to put off going back to court as long as possible.
 
#54

GUNTERSVOL

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#54
Exactly

If there are unlimited numbers of walk ons with NIL money given to them to cover tuition, then down the road the lower divisions will suffer. Some will still decide to go play FCS or D2, but a lot will for to FBS schools with the prayer of making it. It won’t happen tomorrow……but down the road more loopholes will be found
jmo
The NCAA may not be stocked with brainiacs, but I bet they can see NIL abuses to defeat scholarship limits and simply make NIL guys become counters as well. The only major NEW issue is insuring kids can get THEIR market value and outside influences cannot abuse the system by requiring these remunerated athletes to go to specific schools. They can get their money's worth with stars playing at many different schools if their deals are not just a charade. Every FBS team gets the same number of counters, same PWO limits and same NIL cap. Fair is fair.
 
#55

GUNTERSVOL

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#55
I'm not against looking for parity but the NCAA has already seen the court's uneasiness with the lack of revenue sharing for college players.

If the NCAA tries to cap NIL, players will sue and win and the next lawsuit will LIKELY call the athletes employees. It's truly over for the student-athlete model when that happens.

That's why the NCAA won't limit NIL. They really want to put off going back to court as long as possible.

In my scenario they are not limiting the amount of money any player can receive. Who can file the suit. They will allow any entity to pay any player.. Who can file a suit. They are limiting the amount of NIL money TOTAL for each school to force a more fair distribution just like they do by limiting counters. Nothing departing from NCAA policy that the schools have signed up for. Who can file the suit? Pay the players and let them find a school with a counter and the cap space.
 
#56

EBFVOL

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#56
So.... how many schools are already doing this now???? I mean this allows teams with depth listed as PW and paid NIL scholarships but actual 3 star even 4 star talent that is insane to me!
 
#57

SayUWantAreVOLution

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#57
In my scenario they are not limiting the amount of money any player can receive. Who can file the suit. They will allow any entity to pay any player.. Who can file a suit. They are limiting the amount of NIL money TOTAL for each school to force a more fair distribution just like they do by limiting counters. Nothing departing from NCAA policy that the schools have signed up for. Who can file the suit? Pay the players and let them find a school with a counter and the cap space.
The players who sign, then get an NIL, put the school over a cap....... and then get forced to quit the team or leave school SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY MAKE MONEY.

They sue the school and NCAA for the exact same reason that Alston was filed: the NCAA placed limits on schools providing educational supplies to athletes on scholarships that WEREN'T placed on other students on scholarships.

The NCAA can't get away with saying athletes are a "special class" of students that as a group can only earn XXX dollars between the group.

The simple legal question is: why? Why are you restricting the earning rights of this group in particular and not others?
 
#58

GUNTERSVOL

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#58
The players who sign, then get an NIL, put the school over a cap....... and then get forced to quit the team or leave school SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY MAKE MONEY.

They sue the school and NCAA for the exact same reason that Alston was filed: the NCAA placed limits on schools providing educational supplies to athletes on scholarships that WEREN'T placed on other students on scholarships.

The NCAA can't get away with saying athletes are a "special class" of students that as a group can only earn XXX dollars between the group.

The simple legal question is: why? Why are you restricting the earning rights of this group in particular and not others?
 
#59

GUNTERSVOL

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#59
The players who sign, then get an NIL, put the school over a cap....... and then get forced to quit the team or leave school SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY MAKE MONEY.

They sue the school and NCAA for the exact same reason that Alston was filed: the NCAA placed limits on schools providing educational supplies to athletes on scholarships that WEREN'T placed on other students on scholarships.

The NCAA can't get away with saying athletes are a "special class" of students that as a group can only earn XXX dollars between the group.

The simple legal question is: why? Why are you restricting the earning rights of this group in particular and not others?
xxx

Maybe the NCAA has to allow a player to complete a season if his deal does in fact put a school over the limit. The portal exists to help him find cap space elsewhere if not off to the NFL. He would still have his deal as they cannot be predicated on performance and with that risk cleary there and is unlikely to not have hundreds of schools he could select from. Maybe like I said earlier each school can carry one offender and not dramatically impact competitive balance. Heck he could take his deal to NAIA if he wanted to, or maybe Jackson State.

When the projected NIL money reaches 50% of total cap money of every school in the FBS get back to me about limiting a class's earning ability in a law suit. They will be hard pressed to prove their earning value of their name, their image and their likeness is impacted by having to leave TAM and going to say Baylor. or TTU or yada yada yada....
 
#60

SayUWantAreVOLution

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#60
xxx

Maybe the NCAA has to allow a player to complete a season if his deal does in fact put a school over the limit. The portal exists to help him find cap space elsewhere if not off to the NFL. He would still have his deal as they cannot be predicated on performance and with that risk cleary there and is unlikely to not have hundreds of schools he could select from. Maybe like I said earlier each school can carry one offender and not dramatically impact competitive balance. Heck he could take his deal to NAIA if he wanted to, or maybe Jackson State.

When the projected NIL money reaches 50% of total cap money of every school in the FBS get back to me about limiting a class's earning ability in a law suit. They will be hard pressed to prove their earning value of their name, their image and their likeness is impacted by having to leave TAM and going to say Baylor. or TTU or yada yada yada....
The question is: what right does the NCAA have to restrict earnings AT ALL? It's not got anything to do with them. That was their argument against schools being able to provide more educational money and benefits for athletes. "It's bad for our business model." The court was not amused.

That's exactly what your argument is: nevermind the rights of students to earn money, it's bad for the business model to let them earn too much as a group. The reason for a rule restricting NIL at the school level is STRICTLY to keep the athletes from earning too much and maintain the business model.

That won't fly. That went out the window with Alston and the court telling the NCAA they were dang close to, if not already breaking, antitrust laws by not compensating athletes fairly as employees.

If the NCAA tries to restrict NIL..... the court will put them out of business AND force the schools to pay players directly.
 
#61

GUNTERSVOL

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#61
The question is: what right does the NCAA have to restrict earnings AT ALL? It's not got anything to do with them. That was their argument against schools being able to provide more educational money and benefits for athletes. "It's bad for our business model." The court was not amused.

That's exactly what your argument is: nevermind the rights of students to earn money, it's bad for the business model to let them earn too much as a group. The reason for a rule restricting NIL at the school level is STRICTLY to keep the athletes from earning too much and maintain the business model.

That won't fly. That went out the window with Alston and the court telling the NCAA they were dang close to, if not already breaking, antitrust laws by not compensating athletes fairly as employees.

If the NCAA tries to restrict NIL..... the court will put them out of business AND force the schools to pay players directly.

In case my hypothesizing gave anyone the impression I thought I had great insight into the whole NIL situation, that is not the case. For sue they lost the fight to keep another level of complexity in maintaining competitive balance for their members by introducing players getting paid and lost, they still have a valid interest to protect and probably a room full of lawyers crafting solutions that will be within the law.

Using a cap type solution would provide some balance to the new processes, would make it easier to insure that the introduction of payment to the players by a few power brokers to WINK WINK their way into methods coincidentally stacking up high profile players at schools they have some preference for and at the same time allow unlimited access to smaller deals to every athlete since their only obligations are to make deals within guidelines and report it to the institution they attend. The institution just has to keep score and provide access to the information in a way that advises the parties of their position relative to the cap so players and providers can make decisions regarding their negotiations.

Guessing once again that NIL commitment letters could be sent out in advance of but just like LOI's. Probably needs a timed conditional acceptance return required and each player can only have one at a time. Later date filed supersedes the earlier agreement and frees up the cap at the previous school. The database only needs to include the school name, the players name and the date, no other details. Lots of moving parts to polish. Real minds can get this done.

I bet that the variability of current state laws will create a demonstrated need for the FEDS to get back involved and get us to universal rules. The details of this first pass signing day with NIL should be telling. So far only a lot of conjecture or innuendo.
 

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