Public confidence in the military is slipping

#76
#76
Rasputin_Vol said:
I think he was in line with FDR's long term vision of liberating all of these European colonies around the globe. I just found out this morning after doing some more reading that the OSS even provided support for him when he was fighting the Vichy French. Once FDR was out of the way, Ho Chi Minh became expendable or useless. The Truman administration was not eager to be breaking up these colonial empires and ignored Ho Chi Minh's calls for assistance against France.


I think things would have turned out a bit differently with regards to some of these former colonies. You likely wouldn't have seen the emergence of the Dulles Brothers and their merging of the CIA and State Department assets to engage in coups, counterinsurgencies and the creation of the Military Industrial Complex.


And once the French left, why did we stick around during this time in the mid-1950s? He already had over a decade of presence over there already by then.
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I don't know how old you are or your background. I grew up in the 50s and early 60s, and my dad was career AF - fighter/interceptor pilot with WW2 experience. That in many ways made me very sensitive to Soviet intentions; it carried over into adult life, and most people of those generations were extremely concerned about communist takeovers around the globe. Cuba made it real to many. The OSS did some good work - maybe great - hard to tell for sure. There's probably a good argument that moving from that to the CIA, career politicians and "diplomats", and limited crises rather than world war changed our intelligence community into something far less competent and with nebulous goals (the Dulles brothers specifically). In our own bungling way we tried to counter Soviet moves into a lot of places, but we were not as slick as they were, and we were too closely aligned with the past colonialist masters that the Soviets and Chinese blamed for local shiffholes being were what they were - sometimes even legitimately. Honestly though with pre and post history to consider, it's hard to believe that huge swaths of Africa and some places in this hemisphere would have been better without colonialism.
 
#77
#77
AM64 said:
Honestly though with pre and post history to consider, it's hard to believe that huge swaths of Africa and some places in this hemisphere would have been better without colonialism.
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I have no idea bout that because whenever these countries did attempt to liberate themselves, the Dulles boys and/or former colonial powers would neutralize the movements (Guatemala, Iran, DRC/Zaire, Chile, Indonesia)...
 
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#78
#78
Rasputin_Vol said:
I have no idea bout that because whenever these countries did attempt to liberate themselves, the Dulles boys and/or former colonial powers would neutralize the movements (Guatemala, Iran, DRC/Zaire, Chile, Indonesia)...
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Can't argue with that. Agencies that don't see the light of day are problematic at best, and how you make a trustworthy and honest intelligence agency that can be monitored without divulging secrets is probably impossible. But how can you live without one? Power and money corrupt, and you can bet there's plenty at the top of any intelligence agency. 911 and combining multiples into one unmanageable behemoth has to be one of our biggest blunders.
 
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#80
#80
ButchPlz said:
And to be a cash cow for defense contractors at the behest of a corrupt Congress.

I sincerely hope we don't end up in a conflict with Russia. Large defense contractors have failed to update many of the critical systems we'd need in that conflict, as the longer they drag out development the more they get paid. I personally have experience with one of these systems, in development now for over a dozen years, that's only produced two prototypes- both of which failed in the field. The currently deployed version of this vital system is 40+ years old and parts are scarce and expensive.

This story is repeated everywhere. Until the military brass stops acting like they run the DMV (unlikely), the lack of trust is more than warranted.
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I think we're finished as a country. We don't how in bad shape we are, if we had to fight Russia, or china. We'd lose. We'd dominate a drag queen show though so that's give the LGs, Septic of this world some excitement
 
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#83
#83
Velo Vol said:
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How about the more typical military supporters just don't think much of the new woke military and the emphasis on societal "problems" rather than on the mission. Perhaps, too, some of the dwindling support from traditional military supporters has to do not entirely with the military but when, how, and why the military has been used lately ... and the increased politicization. Some of us would prefer to see the military securing our borders rather than those of countries thousands of miles away. And there's the other issue about going to war to fight and win - something the military was decent at until the military began being tactically directed by politicians outside the military ... and increasingly by politicians inside the military, too. Subvert the role of a lot of things and adherents tend to change sides.
 
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#84
#84
At this point, the U.S. military is the Democratic Party armed with airplanes and tanks.

I don't expect that to change. Once the Democrats capture any institution, it becomes useless for its original purpose.

The military was supposed to be non-political. Now all that it is about is politics.
 
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#87
#87
OHvol40 said:
Maybe the endless wars of the past 7 decades coupled with DOD contractors robbing the American taxpayer in perpetuity has something to do with it. I doubt it’s actual lack of confidence in the military itself, rather lack of confidence in commander-in-chiefs and the military industrial complex.
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They've been doing for decades. It's the future our military has become some social experiment. We have a bunch of blm, anti-americans running our military.
 
#88
#88
Velo Vol said:
More trashing of the military.

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I would agree for today's military. Why join when you'll be labeled a racist of you're white and a patriot. I had a brother, a cousin, 2 uncles and my dad all joined the military, I would never encourage my son's to join today's military. Our military is grooming them to turn against their own country.
 
#91
#91
hog88 said:
Marching/running cadences used to have some derogatory and colorful language. Females, homosexuals, short people/tall people, fat people, skinny people, ugly people, anyone outside of your unit within earshot was fair game. Some guys were just geniuses at coming up with them on the fly. That had to be stomped out.
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Well I can say for a fact it carried on into the early and mid 2000's (it was discouraged maybe, but you weren't going to get in trouble). It was around 2011-2012 they really started cracking down.
 
#92
#92
Outside of the Coast Guard or joining the AF or Navy to learn a highly technical skill I would discourage any young person from joining the military right now.
 
#93
#93
hog88 said:
Outside of the Coast Guard or joining the AF or Navy to learn a highly technical skill I would discourage any young person from joining the military right now.
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I'd glad to be getting out when I am (20 days).

I 100% agree. My kids will do anything but join the military (not that I think either will have the notion to join).
 
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#94
#94
YankeeVol said:
Well I can say for a fact it carried on into the early and mid 2000's (it was discouraged maybe, but you weren't going to get in trouble). It was around 2011-2012 they really started cracking down.
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They were trying real hard to end that in 94 when I got out. Glad they were unsuccessful.
 
#99
#99
hog88 said:
I believe it. A couple buddies that have retired over the last decade have said garrison life had gotten unbearable.
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I feel bad for the younger Soldiers. I wouldn't do 20 years in todays Army. Hell, I wouldn't even join if I were an 18 year old again*.


*I'm glad I joined when I did, and I'd do it again (back then though)
 
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#100
#100
YankeeVol said:
I feel bad for the younger Soldiers. I wouldn't do 20 years in todays Army. Hell, I wouldn't even join if I were an 18 year old again*.


*I'm glad I joined when I did, and I'd do it again (back then though)
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I wouldn't trade my time for anything. Got to do a lot of cool **** and go to some crappy places with some great dudes. Where else can you get paid to jump out of airplanes and blow sht up?
 
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