PRUITT's way

#52
#52
JoAllan said:
How long before the idiots can hope to see improvement? Seriously

How long does it take so the team doesn’t look lost and unprepared?

I’m sure it takes a long time to build a championship program, but how long to build a program that can win “homecoming” games?
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Considering all that is said...At Least Four Hard Agonizing Years!
 
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#53
#53
majic73 said:
I can't speak to absolute fact , this is strictly my personal observation. This is not an endorsement of CJP or an excuse , because again I can't verify this as fact only an educated guess based on observation. There seems to be a stubborn , dogmatic system building mentality without concern for results. He has modeled the program , the quality control , and the very talented staff on the Bama model . He models his recruiting a player selection on this model as well . He comes in and installs a 34 defense with a hodge podge of defenders that were not very good in a 43. He installs a pro style read and react multi level offense that is QB dependent when the only QB he has is a kid that got the last staff fired. Both the offense and the defense require very specific player types....of which we simply do not have. If you recall the Sal 34 we attempted to install during the Dooley years. This transition is even more disastrous when you are short on talent and depth across the front and youth at linebacker. You can't run this offense without an accomplished playcaller ...not necessarily an athletic QB , but a guy that recognizes fronts and protections.

With Pruitts experience and exposure to top shelf programs and the recruiting abilities he shown , he knows exactly what he has and does not have on his roster. His staff is a collection of talent and experience that would not miss the obvious personnel weaknesses. So why the refusal to play dumbed down systems that fit the talent level of the team ? I think his philosophy is recruiting and building the personnel to fit the system rather than fitting the system to the personnel. He is building an NFL organization that is manned by youth and third stringers. If this is the case and he pulls it off by getting the correct athletes in place , we will have a top tier system. If he stumbles in recruiting , then this will be an unmitigated disaster. I personally think you build a system framework and fit that to your existing squad . Maybe this team should be a 43 hybrid type with a basic run heavy play action O and then build to your desired system based on the recruiting class(s).I am not sure that CGP will be given enough rope to fill his system with appropriate players.

To sum this up , I think building the system is of greater importance than playing within the current rosters capabilities and by extension , the system is more important than winning in the mind of the staff ( CJP ) .
Click to expand...

Pruitt said he was going to go this route when he was hired ... layout the model and recruit to the model.

I think he’ll be fine in 2-3 years. And Vol football far better off.
 
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#56
#56
majic73 said:
I can't speak to absolute fact , this is strictly my personal observation. This is not an endorsement of CJP or an excuse , because again I can't verify this as fact only an educated guess based on observation. There seems to be a stubborn , dogmatic system building mentality without concern for results. He has modeled the program , the quality control , and the very talented staff on the Bama model . He models his recruiting a player selection on this model as well . He comes in and installs a 34 defense with a hodge podge of defenders that were not very good in a 43. He installs a pro style read and react multi level offense that is QB dependent when the only QB he has is a kid that got the last staff fired. Both the offense and the defense require very specific player types....of which we simply do not have. If you recall the Sal 34 we attempted to install during the Dooley years. This transition is even more disastrous when you are short on talent and depth across the front and youth at linebacker. You can't run this offense without an accomplished playcaller ...not necessarily an athletic QB , but a guy that recognizes fronts and protections.

With Pruitts experience and exposure to top shelf programs and the recruiting abilities he shown , he knows exactly what he has and does not have on his roster. His staff is a collection of talent and experience that would not miss the obvious personnel weaknesses. So why the refusal to play dumbed down systems that fit the talent level of the team ? I think his philosophy is recruiting and building the personnel to fit the system rather than fitting the system to the personnel. He is building an NFL organization that is manned by youth and third stringers. If this is the case and he pulls it off by getting the correct athletes in place , we will have a top tier system. If he stumbles in recruiting , then this will be an unmitigated disaster. I personally think you build a system framework and fit that to your existing squad . Maybe this team should be a 43 hybrid type with a basic run heavy play action O and then build to your desired system based on the recruiting class(s).I am not sure that CGP will be given enough rope to fill his system with appropriate players.

To sum this up , I think building the system is of greater importance than playing within the current rosters capabilities and by extension , the system is more important than winning in the mind of the staff ( CJP ) .
Click to expand...

Good post. This is the only real explanation I can come up with for the awful play this year (in whole... not just the QB play). I just wonder if Fulmer is in on it, or maybe told him to do it this way. Guess we'll never know...
 
#58
#58
majic73 said:
I can't speak to absolute fact , this is strictly my personal observation. This is not an endorsement of CJP or an excuse , because again I can't verify this as fact only an educated guess based on observation. There seems to be a stubborn , dogmatic system building mentality without concern for results. He has modeled the program , the quality control , and the very talented staff on the Bama model . He models his recruiting a player selection on this model as well . He comes in and installs a 34 defense with a hodge podge of defenders that were not very good in a 43. He installs a pro style read and react multi level offense that is QB dependent when the only QB he has is a kid that got the last staff fired. Both the offense and the defense require very specific player types....of which we simply do not have. If you recall the Sal 34 we attempted to install during the Dooley years. This transition is even more disastrous when you are short on talent and depth across the front and youth at linebacker. You can't run this offense without an accomplished playcaller ...not necessarily an athletic QB , but a guy that recognizes fronts and protections.

With Pruitts experience and exposure to top shelf programs and the recruiting abilities he shown , he knows exactly what he has and does not have on his roster. His staff is a collection of talent and experience that would not miss the obvious personnel weaknesses. So why the refusal to play dumbed down systems that fit the talent level of the team ? I think his philosophy is recruiting and building the personnel to fit the system rather than fitting the system to the personnel. He is building an NFL organization that is manned by youth and third stringers. If this is the case and he pulls it off by getting the correct athletes in place , we will have a top tier system. If he stumbles in recruiting , then this will be an unmitigated disaster. I personally think you build a system framework and fit that to your existing squad . Maybe this team should be a 43 hybrid type with a basic run heavy play action O and then build to your desired system based on the recruiting class(s).I am not sure that CGP will be given enough rope to fill his system with appropriate players.

To sum this up , I think building the system is of greater importance than playing within the current rosters capabilities and by extension , the system is more important than winning in the mind of the staff ( CJP ) .
Click to expand...
I think this is exactly what is happening. When I lived in Louisville there was a new coach hired at Ky by the name of Rick Pitino who immediately installed his system or style of play. They lost to Kansas by 54 and fans were ready to run him out of the state. Pitino simply said he would get the players he needed. I think that turned out ok.
 
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#59
#59
majic73 said:
I can't speak to absolute fact , this is strictly my personal observation. This is not an endorsement of CJP or an excuse , because again I can't verify this as fact only an educated guess based on observation. There seems to be a stubborn , dogmatic system building mentality without concern for results. He has modeled the program , the quality control , and the very talented staff on the Bama model . He models his recruiting a player selection on this model as well . He comes in and installs a 34 defense with a hodge podge of defenders that were not very good in a 43. He installs a pro style read and react multi level offense that is QB dependent when the only QB he has is a kid that got the last staff fired. Both the offense and the defense require very specific player types....of which we simply do not have. If you recall the Sal 34 we attempted to install during the Dooley years. This transition is even more disastrous when you are short on talent and depth across the front and youth at linebacker. You can't run this offense without an accomplished playcaller ...not necessarily an athletic QB , but a guy that recognizes fronts and protections.

With Pruitts experience and exposure to top shelf programs and the recruiting abilities he shown , he knows exactly what he has and does not have on his roster. His staff is a collection of talent and experience that would not miss the obvious personnel weaknesses. So why the refusal to play dumbed down systems that fit the talent level of the team ? I think his philosophy is recruiting and building the personnel to fit the system rather than fitting the system to the personnel. He is building an NFL organization that is manned by youth and third stringers. If this is the case and he pulls it off by getting the correct athletes in place , we will have a top tier system. If he stumbles in recruiting , then this will be an unmitigated disaster. I personally think you build a system framework and fit that to your existing squad . Maybe this team should be a 43 hybrid type with a basic run heavy play action O and then build to your desired system based on the recruiting class(s).I am not sure that CGP will be given enough rope to fill his system with appropriate players.

To sum this up , I think building the system is of greater importance than playing within the current rosters capabilities and by extension , the system is more important than winning in the mind of the staff ( CJP ) .
Click to expand...

I tend to agree with you. Why else would he refuse to panic. My guess is that while he is embarrassed over the G. State loss:

1. Pruitt viewed 2018 & 2019 as a rebuild the OL & Defense with young, yet inexperience.
2. I think he gets his QB in 2020 (Bailey).
3. 2020 appears to be the year that he wants to see significant progress.

Don't get me wrong, there are 2-3 coach's out there that I would love to see at Tennessee, but unless one of those unicorns announces true interest, I think the fan base must be willing to go through the dump with Pruitt.

I believe in what he is doing. In fact, I purchased season tickets after the G. State loss.
 
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#60
#60
Bob Neyland said:
Pruitt said he was going to go this route when he was hired ... layout the model and recruit to the model.

I think he’ll be fine in 2-3 years. And Vol football far better off.
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I didn't know he had actually said this . I makes sense , but it is hard to watch
 
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#61
#61
beamerman said:
I think this is exactly what is happening. When I lived in Louisville there was a new coach hired at Ky by the name of Rick Pitino who immediately installed his system or style of play. They to Kansas by 54 and fans were ready to run him out of the state. Pitino simply said he would get the players he needed. I think that turned out ok.
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Perfect example. I remember that.
 
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#62
#62
majic73 said:
I can't speak to absolute fact , this is strictly my personal observation. This is not an endorsement of CJP or an excuse , because again I can't verify this as fact only an educated guess based on observation. There seems to be a stubborn , dogmatic system building mentality without concern for results. He has modeled the program , the quality control , and the very talented staff on the Bama model . He models his recruiting a player selection on this model as well . He comes in and installs a 34 defense with a hodge podge of defenders that were not very good in a 43. He installs a pro style read and react multi level offense that is QB dependent when the only QB he has is a kid that got the last staff fired. Both the offense and the defense require very specific player types....of which we simply do not have. If you recall the Sal 34 we attempted to install during the Dooley years. This transition is even more disastrous when you are short on talent and depth across the front and youth at linebacker. You can't run this offense without an accomplished playcaller ...not necessarily an athletic QB , but a guy that recognizes fronts and protections.

With Pruitts experience and exposure to top shelf programs and the recruiting abilities he shown , he knows exactly what he has and does not have on his roster. His staff is a collection of talent and experience that would not miss the obvious personnel weaknesses. So why the refusal to play dumbed down systems that fit the talent level of the team ? I think his philosophy is recruiting and building the personnel to fit the system rather than fitting the system to the personnel. He is building an NFL organization that is manned by youth and third stringers. If this is the case and he pulls it off by getting the correct athletes in place , we will have a top tier system. If he stumbles in recruiting , then this will be an unmitigated disaster. I personally think you build a system framework and fit that to your existing squad . Maybe this team should be a 43 hybrid type with a basic run heavy play action O and then build to your desired system based on the recruiting class(s).I am not sure that CGP will be given enough rope to fill his system with appropriate players.

To sum this up , I think building the system is of greater importance than playing within the current rosters capabilities and by extension , the system is more important than winning in the mind of the staff ( CJP ) .
Click to expand...
Where are you getting this defense philosophy stuff from we play 4-2-5 75% of the time or more, watch the films. Nickel is base in today's football. they did the same thing at Bama. u can call them ends or linebackers. u have 4 people on line of scrimmage and 2 backers. we run some 3-4 in the the red zone, Down/Distance, and against 12/21 Personnel
 
#63
#63
majic73 said:
I can't speak to absolute fact , this is strictly my personal observation. This is not an endorsement of CJP or an excuse , because again I can't verify this as fact only an educated guess based on observation. There seems to be a stubborn , dogmatic system building mentality without concern for results. He has modeled the program , the quality control , and the very talented staff on the Bama model . He models his recruiting a player selection on this model as well . He comes in and installs a 34 defense with a hodge podge of defenders that were not very good in a 43. He installs a pro style read and react multi level offense that is QB dependent when the only QB he has is a kid that got the last staff fired. Both the offense and the defense require very specific player types....of which we simply do not have. If you recall the Sal 34 we attempted to install during the Dooley years. This transition is even more disastrous when you are short on talent and depth across the front and youth at linebacker. You can't run this offense without an accomplished playcaller ...not necessarily an athletic QB , but a guy that recognizes fronts and protections.

With Pruitts experience and exposure to top shelf programs and the recruiting abilities he shown , he knows exactly what he has and does not have on his roster. His staff is a collection of talent and experience that would not miss the obvious personnel weaknesses. So why the refusal to play dumbed down systems that fit the talent level of the team ? I think his philosophy is recruiting and building the personnel to fit the system rather than fitting the system to the personnel. He is building an NFL organization that is manned by youth and third stringers. If this is the case and he pulls it off by getting the correct athletes in place , we will have a top tier system. If he stumbles in recruiting , then this will be an unmitigated disaster. I personally think you build a system framework and fit that to your existing squad . Maybe this team should be a 43 hybrid type with a basic run heavy play action O and then build to your desired system based on the recruiting class(s).I am not sure that CGP will be given enough rope to fill his system with appropriate players.

To sum this up , I think building the system is of greater importance than playing within the current rosters capabilities and by extension , the system is more important than winning in the mind of the staff ( CJP ) .
Click to expand...
I fully agree with you.
 
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#64
#64
OakdaleVol said:
Where are you getting this defense philosophy stuff from we play 4-2-5 75% of the time or more, watch the films. Nickel is base in today's football. they did the same thing at Bama. u can call them ends or linebackers. u have 4 people on line of scrimmage and 2 backers. we run some 3-4 in the the red zone, Down/Distance, and against 12/21 Personnel
Click to expand...

Because the defense is run out of a 34 shell. How we approach two tight / 1 RB or 2 RB one TE personnel is irrelevant. When we are in a 4-2-5 alignment , we use a STAR position. This is a very different position than a 'nickel' as run from the 43 shell. The STAR is the SAM linebacker. and holds SAM primary keys , whereas a 43 nickel is a primary coverage . Do we play a corner at STAR , sure we do. This is due to inadequacy in personnel. We don't have a hybrid backer / safety that can play STAR . We don't have an every down Star - Sam. When we get that guy , there will not be a personnel change . The same guy will play every down regardless of formation. Yes is a 34 you still have 4 guys at the line typically , but again it is philosophically different. This is also personnel oriented. You have 4 at the line , but one of the ends is a 230 lb LB as opposed to a 280 lb DE .

This is all based on and derived from the Belichick tree and uses a Star , Money , and fire zone. The entire defense is based on the 34 shell even when we are in what you are referring to as a 'nickel' or a 4-2-5 alignment ...its still a 34 philosophy . tHis is a completely different assignment set and personnel type than a 43 or nickel based defense
 
#65
#65
PineyBluff Vol said:
Considering all that is said...At Least Four Hard Agonizing Years!
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lol no it don't take four years, we're sitting here watching a new coach at KState, UL, and Kansas taking another coaches players and playing more competitive and winning, unlike Pruitt who has taken the same core players, plus more of his own and is doing worse.

All good coaches have their teams take a big step FORWARD in year two. We took a giant leap BACKWARDS, four years is no longer the timeline in todays college game. Not with all the ways a coach has to get talent in here now.
 
#66
#66
beamerman said:
I think this is exactly what is happening. When I lived in Louisville there was a new coach hired at Ky by the name of Rick Pitino who immediately installed his system or style of play. They lost to Kansas by 54 and fans were ready to run him out of the state. Pitino simply said he would get the players he needed. I think that turned out ok.
Click to expand...
Ok?...as in forced out in disgrace because of a "sex for pay" scandal, ok?
 
#67
#67
majic73 said:
Because the defense is run out of a 34 shell. How we approach two tight / 1 RB or 2 RB one TE personnel is irrelevant. When we are in a 4-2-5 alignment , we use a STAR position. This is a very different position than a 'nickel' as run from the 43 shell. The STAR is the SAM linebacker. and holds SAM primary keys , whereas a 43 nickel is a primary coverage . Do we play a corner at STAR , sure we do. This is due to inadequacy in personnel. We don't have a hybrid backer / safety that can play STAR . We don't have an every down Star - Sam. When we get that guy , there will not be a personnel change . The same guy will play every down regardless of formation. Yes is a 34 you still have 4 guys at the line typically , but again it is philosophically different. This is also personnel oriented. You have 4 at the line , but one of the ends is a 230 lb LB as opposed to a 280 lb DE .

This is all based on and derived from the Belichick tree and uses a Star , Money , and fire zone. The entire defense is based on the 34 shell even when we are in what you are referring to as a 'nickel' or a 4-2-5 alignment ...its still a 34 philosophy . tHis is a completely different assignment set and personnel type than a 43 or nickel based defense
Click to expand...
Bama is also playing their starting corner as the star. Base coverage rip/liz Match the star is a cover guy also in cover 7 call he is a cover guy in some variations dependent on call. in Cov 1 he is a cover guy. yes there is times when he is run support/flat defender and blitzes in fire zone. also who are these 230 pound sam and jack we have as edge rushers crouch is smallest at 245
 
#68
#68
majic73 said:
Because the defense is run out of a 34 shell. How we approach two tight / 1 RB or 2 RB one TE personnel is irrelevant. When we are in a 4-2-5 alignment , we use a STAR position. This is a very different position than a 'nickel' as run from the 43 shell. The STAR is the SAM linebacker. and holds SAM primary keys , whereas a 43 nickel is a primary coverage . Do we play a corner at STAR , sure we do. This is due to inadequacy in personnel. We don't have a hybrid backer / safety that can play STAR . We don't have an every down Star - Sam. When we get that guy , there will not be a personnel change . The same guy will play every down regardless of formation. Yes is a 34 you still have 4 guys at the line typically , but again it is philosophically different. This is also personnel oriented. You have 4 at the line , but one of the ends is a 230 lb LB as opposed to a 280 lb DE .

This is all based on and derived from the Belichick tree and uses a Star , Money , and fire zone. The entire defense is based on the 34 shell even when we are in what you are referring to as a 'nickel' or a 4-2-5 alignment ...its still a 34 philosophy . tHis is a completely different assignment set and personnel type than a 43 or nickel based defense
Click to expand...
Nobody is playing 250 lb sam/Jack backers on slot receivers in 10 personnel in match 3 coverages or cov 1 people sub depending on offense personel groups. rip/liz match 3 is the primary coverage of the saban tree.
 
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#69
#69
zydane47 said:
lol no it don't take four years, we're sitting here watching a new coach at KState, UL, and Kansas taking another coaches players and playing more competitive and winning, unlike Pruitt who has taken the same core players, plus more of his own and is doing worse.

All good coaches have their teams take a big step FORWARD in year two. We took a giant leap BACKWARDS, four years is no longer the timeline in todays college game. Not with all the ways a coach has to get talent in here now.
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LOL all the teams mentioned not saying good or bad, do not play in the SEC. What makes you think someone else can turn this around immediately?
 
#70
#70
hog88 said:
He’s going to have to recruit better than he has and is. Bottom of the SEC isn’t going to cut it.
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Pruitts system patterned after Saban will not work unless you have top 5 recruiting classes, which we don't have, and not going to get untill we start winning.
 
#71
#71
cgrish said:
Pruitts system patterned after Saban will not work unless you have top 5 recruiting classes, which we don't have, and not going to get untill we start winning.
Click to expand...
give me specific schemes that do not work. because almost every team is running pattern matching zones and man due to advancement in offenses plus the addition of the rpo. what specific schemes would u run to give inferior talent a tactical advantage.
 
#72
#72
JoAllan said:
That sounds good, I think he stays regardless so I hope it works.

My problems are: I see more regression than progression.

I don’t think it takes many recruits to beat Georgia State

I’ve seen QB regression compounded with coaching indecision

Many times it seems the team has not seen any film on the opposing team (don’t get me wrong, I know they have)

Secondary seem lost at times, D line can’t pressure, they line up wrong, I’ve seen way too many undisciplined penalties and plays......to me this reflects on the head coach......maybe not entirely his fault, but it reflects badly on him.

Simply not near enough improvement, combined with some regression......to me just says he isn’t a real leader.
Click to expand...
I hope you are wrong, but I cannot refute what you are saying. Some regression can be expected due to new players at various positions. Pruitt doesn't use that as an excuse, but it is reality. Look at the number of starters on both sides of the ball who are first year starters, or back from season long injuries. If there is any more regression, it very well could show our head coach is in over his head right now.
 
#73
#73
majic73 said:
Pride85 , I think this is also a point that I was thinking but did not mention in my original post. There is some 'my way or the highway' in this guy. I believe that it is going to take a couple of recruiting cycles to see how his system pans out. I would want to see him scheme to his teams talent level ...but he didn't ask advise from me. I bet he has guys like Fulmer and Saban.
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Yeah; he probably values their advice more than ours.
 
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#74
#74
majic73 said:
I can't speak to absolute fact , this is strictly my personal observation. This is not an endorsement of CJP or an excuse , because again I can't verify this as fact only an educated guess based on observation. There seems to be a stubborn , dogmatic system building mentality without concern for results. He has modeled the program , the quality control , and the very talented staff on the Bama model . He models his recruiting a player selection on this model as well . He comes in and installs a 34 defense with a hodge podge of defenders that were not very good in a 43. He installs a pro style read and react multi level offense that is QB dependent when the only QB he has is a kid that got the last staff fired. Both the offense and the defense require very specific player types....of which we simply do not have. If you recall the Sal 34 we attempted to install during the Dooley years. This transition is even more disastrous when you are short on talent and depth across the front and youth at linebacker. You can't run this offense without an accomplished playcaller ...not necessarily an athletic QB , but a guy that recognizes fronts and protections.

With Pruitts experience and exposure to top shelf programs and the recruiting abilities he shown , he knows exactly what he has and does not have on his roster. His staff is a collection of talent and experience that would not miss the obvious personnel weaknesses. So why the refusal to play dumbed down systems that fit the talent level of the team ? I think his philosophy is recruiting and building the personnel to fit the system rather than fitting the system to the personnel. He is building an NFL organization that is manned by youth and third stringers. If this is the case and he pulls it off by getting the correct athletes in place , we will have a top tier system. If he stumbles in recruiting , then this will be an unmitigated disaster. I personally think you build a system framework and fit that to your existing squad . Maybe this team should be a 43 hybrid type with a basic run heavy play action O and then build to your desired system based on the recruiting class(s).I am not sure that CGP will be given enough rope to fill his system with appropriate players.

To sum this up , I think building the system is of greater importance than playing within the current rosters capabilities and by extension , the system is more important than winning in the mind of the staff ( CJP ) .
Click to expand...
This type of process and system only works if you can recruit at an elite level like Alabama. So unless you think Pruitt can out-recruit teams like Alabama, Georgia, LSU, Auburn, A&M, Florida, etc. on a consistent basis, we will never get to their level. We need to rely on schemes and actual player development to take the next step. Just trying to copy Alabama’s process but with less talented players will never work. Plus it’s going to be harder to recruit going forward if all the recruits think that Pruitt is on the hot seat. A new coach usually gets a little bump in recruiting that lasts for a year or two, but once that excitement of a new coach wears off, you have to start recruiting based off actual results instead of just hype.
 
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#75
#75
OakdaleVol said:
Nobody is playing 250 lb sam/Jack backers on slot receivers in 10 personnel in match 3 coverages or cov 1 people sub depending on offense personel groups. rip/liz match 3 is the primary coverage of the saban tree.
Click to expand...

Whatever your personnel /platoon argument is ...its still a 34 philosophy. All nickel coverages are not created alike . If a star is in coverage or not , or in run support or not is really not relevant ...its the primary keys that makes it a 34. I can quote Pruitt or Saban on their 34 philosophy. So a 245 end is not the same as a 275 or 280 lb end . The way they rush is typically not the same. Many times , they are not knuckle down . Again , a completely different philosophy and a different set of keys and responsibilities.

There are plenty of overlaps between 34 and 43 , but they are two different philosophies administered in two different ways with variation within both. We run a 34 shell. At many positions we don't have the appropriate players at this point. Yes we align as a 4-2 and a dime and several variants ...but we still play out of the 34 shell just like 43 teams play nickel and dimes but are 43 philosophies. A 52 double eagle can morph to a nickle or quarters ….but it is still a 52 sub set
 
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