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#9
#9
Volstylexx said:
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A little context : Holdsclaw had just won 3 National Championships and was going for the 4th. I remember catching the game in the last few minutes and was stunned that they would actually lose. That was a very emotional moment for all the Lady Vols.

Kim had recently benched Cooper for actions during the last game. Cooper left the locker room. Wasn't even sure she would play again. Cooper had in earlier games seemed to ignore Kim's coaching as has been posted on this board. The team was on an 8-game losing streak. Not a lot of love going around for obvious reasons.
 
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#10
#10
JL1231 said:
A little context : Holdsclaw had just won 3 National Championships and was going for the 4th. I remember catching the game in the last few minutes and was stunned that they would actually lose. That was a very emotional moment for all the Lady Vols.

Kim had recently benched Cooper for actions during the last game. Cooper left the locker room. Wasn't even sure she would play again. Cooper had in earlier games seemed to ignore Kim's coaching as has been posted on this board. The team was on an 8-game losing streak. Not a lot of love going around for obvious reasons.
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There is the bigger context of how did the team with Holdsclaw win 3 national championships? I don't think it came from CPS building an emotional wall between herself and her players. That moment you see with CPS comforting Holdsclaw reflected years of relationship building,mutual respect, and a deep interpersonal connection. You don't get there by acting the way a coach does in the Cooper photo.
 
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#12
#12
JL1231 said:
A little context : Holdsclaw had just won 3 National Championships and was going for the 4th. I remember catching the game in the last few minutes and was stunned that they would actually lose. That was a very emotional moment for all the Lady Vols.

Kim had recently benched Cooper for actions during the last game. Cooper left the locker room. Wasn't even sure she would play again. Cooper had in earlier games seemed to ignore Kim's coaching as has been posted on this board. The team was on an 8-game losing streak. Not a lot of love going around for obvious reasons.
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Get out of here with that fahr extinguisher! Don’t you know we’re busy about getting a coach fahr’d up in here! Damn, the nerve of some people…
 
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#13
#13
Meh. Apples and pears. I wonder how Pat would do in the NIL/Transfer Portal era with her style and today's kids. And how would Kim Caldwell do if she had to recruit them in high school and have the majority for 4 years? Mickey DeMoss got a lot of credit for getting the girls that Pat needed to get over the hump. Deservedly so. Caldwell needs a right hand man like Pat had imo.
 
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#14
#14
ksgovols said:
Meh. Apples and pears. I wonder how Pat would do in the NIL/Transfer Portal era with her style and today's kids. And how would Kim Caldwell do if she had to recruit them in high school and have the majority for 4 years? Mickey DeMoss got a lot of credit for getting the girls that Pat needed to get over the hump. Deservedly so. Caldwell needs a right hand man like Pat had imo.
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Granted, Caldwell had Gabe, but just like Mickie, the best assistants get hired away. The hire to get their recruiting back on track will be foundational moving forward.
 
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#15
#15
madtownvol said:
There is the bigger context of how did the team with Holdsclaw win 3 national championships? I don't think it came from CPS building an emotional wall between herself and her players. That moment you see with CPS comforting Holdsclaw reflected years of relationship building,mutual respect, and a deep interpersonal connection. You don't get there by acting the way a coach does in the Cooper photo.
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Pat had been coaching for 20+ years at that point with great success and certainly earned and demanded respect. I'm guessing the 3-peat had a lot to do with the loaded roster(s) of Holdsclaw, Catchings, Randall, Jolly, Conklin, etc. Holdsclaw was a 2 Time National Player of the Year. Catchings 3 Time All SEC First Team, etc, etc, etc. Outside of the 10 loss team that won the Championship, I don't think there was much adversity during those championships. They were 39-0 for the last one. Pretty easy to get along when life is good.
 
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#16
#16
JL1231 said:
Pat had been coaching for 20+ years at that point with great success and certainly earned and demanded respect. I'm guessing the 3-peat had a lot to do with the loaded roster(s) of Holdsclaw, Catchings, Randall, Jolly, Conklin, etc. Holdsclaw was a 2 Time National Player of the Year. Catchings 3 Time All SEC First Team, etc, etc, etc. Outside of the 10 loss team that won the Championship, I don't think there was much adversity during those championships. They were 39-0 for the last one. Pretty easy to get along when life is good.
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Ah, that 10 loss season is not just a side note but the whole dang story. The team did not fall apart did it and they rallied to win against an NC against all odds. That horrific slump would have been more than enough adversity to break a team but it didn't. And that team had far from a loaded roster,. It had one superstar and cast of roll players.

But hey maybe you're right. Having palpable hostility between a coach and her players may not be a problem at all, it just how things how things are. It could be fun to have a roster completely rebuilt every single season!!!
 
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#17
#17
JL1231 said:
Pat had been coaching for 20+ years at that point with great success and certainly earned and demanded respect. I'm guessing the 3-peat had a lot to do with the loaded roster(s) of Holdsclaw, Catchings, Randall, Jolly, Conklin, etc. Holdsclaw was a 2 Time National Player of the Year. Catchings 3 Time All SEC First Team, etc, etc, etc. Outside of the 10 loss team that won the Championship, I don't think there was much adversity during those championships. They were 39-0 for the last one. Pretty easy to get along when life is good.
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You should read Pat’s book to get more background about the second championship of that three peat and see the amount of adversity there. Kim is in her 10th year of coaching. At what year is it that coaches start seeing their players as fully realized human beings that respond differently and need comforting?
 
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#19
#19
chuckiepoo said:
Granted, Caldwell had Gabe, but just like Mickie, the best assistants get hired away. The hire to get their recruiting back on track will but foundational moving forward.
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Agreed. The tradition horse can only be rode so long. Last NC was 2008. Girls born that year will be 18 this year. Pat's last year was 2012. Gary Hart did the Lady Vols no favors in the early years A.P.
 
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#20
#20
JL1231 said:
A little context : Holdsclaw had just won 3 National Championships and was going for the 4th. I remember catching the game in the last few minutes and was stunned that they would actually lose. That was a very emotional moment for all the Lady Vols.

Kim had recently benched Cooper for actions during the last game. Cooper left the locker room. Wasn't even sure she would play again. Cooper had in earlier games seemed to ignore Kim's coaching as has been posted on this board. The team was on an 8-game losing streak. Not a lot of love going around for obvious reasons.
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Not going by a rumor, I saw that last game and I saw Cooper doing her best, working her ass off, trying to score and catch up in the closing minutes of the game. It looked like she was really the only one trying to do that, so when she was pulled and benched for the rest of the game, I thought what kind of Coach pulls their best player, who was working so hard to score in a close game. In your last game, it’s a little late to ‘teach her a lesson’, it just looked like another immature move by KC.
 
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#21
#21
madtownvol said:
Ah, that 10 loss season is not just a side note but the whole dang story. The team did not fall apart did it and they rallied to win against an NC against all odds. That horrific slump would have been more than enough adversity to break a team but it didn't. And that team had far from a loaded roster,. It had one superstar and cast of roll players.

But hey maybe you're right. Having palpable hostility between a coach and her players may not be a problem at all, it just how things how things are. It could be fun to have a roster completely rebuilt every single season!!!
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I never said that it wasn't a problem. Kim just finished her 2nd year. No hostility last year that I am aware of. If she doesn't learn from and adjust from whatever happened this year, she will be replaced. I like the fact that she is making changes. We will see if those changes help or hinder the final product next year.
 
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#22
#22
JL1231 said:
I never said that it wasn't a problem. Kim just finished her 2nd year. No hostility last year that I am aware of. If she doesn't learn from and adjust from whatever happened this year, she will be replaced. I like the fact that she is making changes. We will see if those changes help or hinder the final product next year.
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Let's go back to this exchange which started with your comment on the comparative image between Holdsclaw and Summitt and Coop and Caldwell. You explained the difference as CPS having 20 years of experience and it being a shock that the team had lost, plus not having an adversity (which ignores that this was a moment of adversity and the prior season's challenges). You then suggested that Caldwell's response was fine since there was "not a lot of love going around" My point is that Caldwell's cold hearted treatment makes it unlikely she would get to the Summit point.

So which is it? You are cool with Caldwell's ignoring Coop's breakdown or you think she needs to build a closer relationship with her players? BTW, Caldwell is not a 3rh year head coach. Next year begins her 11th season as a HC. Now, only 3 of those prior years are at the D1 level but the fundamentals of building relations with players should transcend the differences between D1 and D2.
 
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#23
#23
JL1231 said:
A little context : Holdsclaw had just won 3 National Championships and was going for the 4th. I remember catching the game in the last few minutes and was stunned that they would actually lose. That was a very emotional moment for all the Lady Vols.

Kim had recently benched Cooper for actions during the last game. Cooper left the locker room. Wasn't even sure she would play again. Cooper had in earlier games seemed to ignore Kim's coaching as has been posted on this board. The team was on an 8-game losing streak. Not a lot of love going around for obvious reasons.
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Hate to say it, but Cooper had a lot to do with the destruction of the chemistry of the team. She has terrific talent, but she tried to do too much when the game got tougher. That is when she made most of her mistakes.
 
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#24
#24
lvocd said:
That photo of Kellie as her heart is breaking is devastating, just like the one taken the moment Cardoso hit that 3. Omg. Nobody hates to lose more than Kellie Jolly Harper.
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Yeah i also remember T, Key standing 5 feet from the basket with her hands up. Cardoso was 20 feet from her. And it was luck she hit it. But now we are getting beat by SC by 30 or 40 points.
 
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#25
#25
willford65 said:
IMO KC needs to get rid of the full court pressure and frequent subs. When a player gets hot they get in a grove which they can't do leaving every two minutes.
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I agree with you 100%. But i just do not think she will ever do that. Just think the ones that are leaving are mostly her recruits. Something is going on with the Lady Vols.
 
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