Practice Updates 11.15.16

#51
#51
allvol123 said:
Other than once or twice, it is a waste.

I like Butch and am grateful for what he has done. That said, I went to a few practices before the 2015 season started and was a little worried at what I saw. More cheerleading than instruction and teaching.
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You got to experience an entire practice? Wow. Pretty cool.
 
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#52
#52
McDad said:
I appreciate your insight. I really do. And please understand, im not trying to be difficult.

Help me see the value. If this type of exercise helps with fight and determination, AND we expect players at this level to all possess those attributes...what's really the purpose?
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Ok Al Bundy story time... I played in HS. I was mostly terrible but I was quick to pick up the line concepts and was a relatively big body but I was not (and still am not) a very aggressive person. So I was one of those people who was always in that sort of drill. It's amazing how your aggression level picks up after a smaller guy kicks your butt with all your teammates surrounding you cheering him on. So it certainly worked for me. Speculative that we have a few guys who might need the work but that's my guess.

Also it gets the competitive juices flowing and gives you some momentum as you break up the team into position groups.
 
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#55
#55
csheaton said:
Nobody as in other elite programs...yeah I'm sure Baylor, TCU, and Boise State would love to have them!! Not to say we don't beat other elite programs for a recruit sometimes, but as I said...how many times have we seen those guys leave after they get here? Answer: almost every other year
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Saban never stopped recruiting Hurd. Not a 5 star example, but he never recruited Gaulden yet still sent him a LOI to sign on NSD. We have more players that Bama coveted but Bama has a helluva lotta fallback when it comes to talent. When a Kongbo tells them no and Saban says "we moved on" it has credence.
 
#56
#56
McDad said:
I appreciate your insight. I really do. And please understand, im not trying to be difficult.

Help me see the value. If this type of exercise helps with fight and determination, AND we expect players at this level to all possess those attributes...what's really the purpose?
Click to expand...

I'm sure you had something similar in band camp. Let the piccolo players line up and figure out who's the nastiest
 
#57
#57
McDad said:
I appreciate your insight. I really do. And please understand, im not trying to be difficult.

Help me see the value. If this type of exercise helps with fight and determination, AND we expect players at this level to all possess those attributes...what's really the purpose?
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Adding to what some others have said, when we did these type drills,it also gives each player the chance to use the technique they have learned and ability they have in one on one matchups. This way,coaches get to see them perform in an emotional setting with teammates and can use info like this to help make decisions.
like many have said,it's mostly a pride thing and showing how much you "want it." No poffense, but you said you never played so it is kinda hard to get what it accomplishes to a lot of people.
Hope this helps.
 
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#58
#58
McDad said:
Ive never played organized football. CoL drill seems like a huge waste of time to me.
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Toughness, competitiveness, manhood. All things needed. Meyer used to make his team stand in an athletic position just so they knew what it felt like. My point, every coach does something unique that they feel teaches a necessary football trait. It will be ok.
 
#59
#59
Hopefully we hear something about Kamara today-- probably just in the physical therapy room getting ice and stem...
 
#60
#60
So I guess Sanders and Mosley are starting Sat.

Oh, and Bituli will get his 20-25 snaps.
Maybe Butch ought to add "self motivated" and "plays nasty" to his recruiting profile.
 
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#61
#61
McDad said:
What fundamental(s) of football is the circle of life drill intended to improve?
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It's a good question, McDad, don't let the "are you kidding" responses get to you.

CoL and drills like it develop intangibles, like drive and determination, aggression ... but not just aggression, a particular kind of aggression that you learn to turn on and off like a light switch. The kind of aggression that is over-the-top but still you're in control of.

And that particular kind of aggression is hugely important in football, where you have to stop trying to bury the guy opposite you the instant he steps out of bounds, or the whistle blows.

So CoL teaches you how to be mean and nasty, yeah, but also how to stop being mean and nasty as soon as the play is over.

That's why teams do it, or something like it. It's valuable.
 
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#62
#62
fade route said:
McDad you're a great poster, which is why I'm baffled at this question coming from you.
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I appreciate the compliment. I am unable to see the benefit to the drill this late in the season. The practice notes from reporters always mention the CoL drill. It seems like a focal point of practice. Seems like the time could be better used working on fundamentals. I also admit I am a noob with the hows and whys of practice because ive never played.

Im sincerely not trolling or bashing coaching or looking to argue. Just looking for insight.
 
#63
#63
csheaton said:
As are most of the 5 star players we get...because as much as nobody wants to admit it, we basically get only the 5 stars that nobody else wants, the guys with character issues, or guys who have great measurables but are "developmental"....real question is why do we recruit them? Just to keep star gazing fans happy, or hoping for a shot in the dark bc that's how far we've fallen. We are basically the Nebraska of the SEC and 9-3 is pretty much our ceiling....we are a 3 star team that needs an elite coach to be great, while Alabama and LSU will always get more 4 and 5 star recruits nowadays, and they could win and remain at least a somewhat elite program with a 3 star coach...Sorry the truth hurts but that's it. And I'm not a star gazer...it's simply just a quality difference on field, and the recruiting services are at least somewhat right, stars or not. And honestly that is why most of the 5 stars leave this program...either because they get here and realize all of this, or they were exactly one of the crap character guys I was talking about and leave.
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While I respect your opinion, I feel you have failed to properly characterize the Vols current situation. CBJ is methodically building back the program destroyed by his predecessors. I'll admit he got off schedule by bringing a woefully flat team to Columbia S.C. Otherwise, we were a double overtime heartbreaker away from exceeding my expectations for the year. Yes the Vols have to win a championship to satisfy our appetite for success. This will provide the breakthrough in recruiting needed to land the real 5 star recruits. I for one believe we have the right man to lead us to the promise land. :good!:
 
#64
#64
Falcons02 said:
Ok Al Bundy story time... I played in HS. I was mostly terrible but I was quick to pick up the line concepts and was a relatively big body but I was not (and still am not) a very aggressive person. So I was one of those people who was always in that sort of drill. It's amazing how your aggression level picks up after a smaller guy kicks your butt with all your teammates surrounding you cheering him on. So it certainly worked for me. Speculative that we have a few guys who might need the work but that's my guess.

Also it gets the competitive juices flowing and gives you some momentum as you break up the team into position groups.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply. I understand what youre saying, here. Is the 'level of aggression' needed to compete in practice something which needs to be primed at each practice or was it (for you) a 'once learned never forgotten' thing?
 
#65
#65
I'm not sure the comment about Kongbo getting beat by Sanders should cause so much concern. Rockytopinsider mentioned that battle, but also said Kongbo threw Jashon Robertson to the ground in one-on-one drills.
 
#66
#66
VFL-82-JP said:
It's a good question, McDad, don't let the "are you kidding" responses get to you.

CoL and drills like it develop intangibles, like drive and determination, aggression ... but not just aggression, a particular kind of aggression that you learn to turn on and off like a light switch. The kind of aggression that is over-the-top but still you're in control of.

And that particular kind of aggression is hugely important in football, where you have to stop trying to bury the guy opposite you the instant he steps out of bounds, or the whistle blows.

So CoL teaches you how to be mean and nasty, yeah, but also how to stop being mean and nasty as soon as the play is over.

That's why teams do it, or something like it. It's valuable.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the perspective.
 
#68
#68
VFL-82-JP said:
It's a good question, McDad, don't let the "are you kidding" responses get to you.

CoL and drills like it develop intangibles, like drive and determination, aggression ... but not just aggression, a particular kind of aggression that you learn to turn on and off like a light switch. The kind of aggression that is over-the-top but still you're in control of.

And that particular kind of aggression is hugely important in football, where you have to stop trying to bury the guy opposite you the instant he steps out of bounds, or the whistle blows.

So CoL teaches you how to be mean and nasty, yeah, but also how to stop being mean and nasty as soon as the play is over.


That's why teams do it, or something like it. It's valuable.
Click to expand...

Helps camaraderie and bonding as well.
 
#69
#69
Here are some thoughts on CoL this late in the season. 1) I don't hear of injuries from the drill, so no harm no foul? 2) Isn't the media limited on how much practice they see? If correct then the reporting is proportionally skewed. 3) When I have seen CoL drill there are usually no more than a handful of battles. It really does take that much time away.

No with respect to aggression I am 100% on board with the expectation the guys should have that at this level. My view is different that I don't believe they all have it. I believe so many guys were top athletes in HS they didn't have to rely on it. Not sure how you scout that in HS.
 
#71
#71
McDad said:
Ive never played organized football. CoL drill seems like a huge waste of time to me.
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This statement says it all.....

Basketball is a contact sport....soccer may even be a contact sport...wrestling is a contact sport....

But Football is a COLLISION SPORT! You must win the collisions to be successful....

The CoL drill is all about learning and developing the physicality required to win the collision...:salute:
 
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#73
#73
McDad said:
Do coaches use this exercise to determine starters and player rotation? Heart, fight, and competiveness, I understand. One reason i am fond of JJ.
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Coaches use it for a lot of things. You take a 5th year senior OL that seldom plays but has done things the right way and generally has the respect of the team because he has, Austin Saunders and you pit him against a 5 star with a bad attitude, Kongbo. Its essentially Butch saying okay Kongbo lets see what you got. Also, I'm betting there's a lot of guys on the team that would love a shot at knocking Kongbo into next week. I could go on but even if you didn't play you must begin to see how this drill can be used to keep the pack (team) in their place. If you want to be an Alpha Dog Kongbo you got to do more than bark.
 
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#74
#74
McDad said:
Thanks for the reply. I understand what youre saying, here. Is the 'level of aggression' needed to compete in practice something which needs to be primed at each practice or was it (for you) a 'once learned never forgotten' thing?
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Sorry for the late reply... For me it took a couple good butt kickings to start getting the message. Even after I picked the aggression level up it still helped focus me.

Have you ever seen the YouTube vids of Big John Henderson getting slapped pregame? Coach used to have the guys pound the everliving crap outta my shoulder pads before we ran out to fire me up.

I understand your questioning the value of these methods. From my own perspective it was quite valuable but YMMV.
 
#75
#75
CoL... let's replace Circle with Champion and that may warrant the reasoning perhaps?
 
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