Practice dates

[kmkemp11]

Deaths among people without other comorbidities are very rare. CDC says that only 7% of "Covid deaths" list Covid alone as cause.

Two years ago over 950,000 people were hospitalized for the flu. Covid-19 will not come close to that... probably not even half... maybe not even a third. The number currently sits at 295K.

When comparing against the flu, you also have to realize that CDC acknowledges that flu deaths are greatly undercounted.

This is a weird way to look at it. For one, COVID has only been a thing for a few months and we literally shut the world down to keep the numbers under control. Despite that, it is likely that we'll have well north of that number by the end of this year. Not to mention you cherry picked a random year...

 

[Dumbledorange]

As far as COVID goes I hate to tell you guys but it is finally here and it is here in a big way. For example up until this week I had yet to have a single positive patient. Not a single one. Yesterday I had 12. Wednesday between my partners, myself and urgent care we had 32. We are seeing the results of everyone losing their minds during Memorial day weekend. The only positive I can say is we are doing a better job treating it, Remdesivir seems to work pretty well, so I think you are going to see mortality rates drop but just go ahead and brace yourself for the numbers you are about to see in Knox county. They are about to skyrocket.

I hope they pay attention but so, so many will not.

 

[TAF]

Everyone has a right to their opinion, 100,000+ Octogenarians who had pre-existing medical conditions would disagree with yours

fyp

 

[sjt18]

Yes, there has been a lot of factors that distort the data. There was an incentive created in one of the bills Congress passed to inflate numbers. Several states have been caught under-reporting data on purpose. Our testing has improved over time. An antibody test came out, but apparently it has some issues also. Let's not just pick one of them out...

Which states have been caught under-reporting and what was the other side? I fully suspect that many doctors in Missouri have NOT listed Covid unless Covid contributed to the death... which is what they should ALL do.

Bottom line: any comparisons that make it seem like it's no worse than the flu are intentionally wrong and designed to control you.

Right. Based on WHAT? Speculations by those who told us 2.2 million people were going to die... that you could catch it easily from surfaces... that it was unsafe to be outside in the sun... that you were in significant danger just by walking by someone in the store?

Is Covid-19 severe for a narrow band of our population? Of course. The flu is dangerous for an even broader band of our population.

Here is DIRECT proof that CDC undercounts flu deaths... and still counts around 50K most years and somewhere between 46K and 95K in 2017-2018.

CDC Novel H1N1 Flu | CDC Estimates of 2009 H1N1 Influenza Cases, Hospitalizations and Deaths in the United States
Burden of Influenza

Even if we find out that a huge number of people are asymptomatic, there is almost no chance that the death rate is lower than the flu.

Simply put... yes there is. CDC's first attempt at a data based IFR was .4% with a 35% asymptomatic assumption. That was using "conservative" numbers for infections and inflated numbers for deaths. According to the instructions given above... George Floyd will be listed as a Covid death. He was apparently Covid-19 positive when strangled to death while on drugs.... so obviously his deaths should be used to inflate the Covid mortality rate.

In fact, it would be a huge surprise if it wasn't at least one order of magnitude higher.

It may be... but it may not be once we have accurate numbers and a more apples to apples comparison where flu deaths are counted in the same way.

We already know it spreads much more easily than the flu,

No. We actually don't. We have models indicating that it does. The field data does not yet show that. In the narrow test cases of the USS Roosevelt and Diamond Princess the infection rates were around 20% under very intense exposure. A virulent flu strain would have been just as bad or worse.

and if we find out that a huge number of people are asymptomatic, that would mean that it spreads even more easily than we thought.

Yielding a "so what?" If only 5% of people have symptoms then that's not bad news. It also means herd immunity can develop quickly and with very little "pain".

However... WHO now says based on DATA rather than models that asymptomatic spread is very unlikely. This isn't what the "models" said... but the field data does.

 

[CINCYVOL]

This is a remarkably callous attitude. You are outright saying that you don't care if the players get sick as long as you get your football games. Get some perspective.

wouldn’t the nature of the virus suggest that everyone will get it eventually?

 

[CINCYVOL]

Which states have been caught under-reporting and what was the other side? I fully suspect that many doctors in Missouri have NOT listed Covid unless Covid contributed to the death... which is what they should ALL do.

Right. Based on WHAT? Speculations by those who told us 2.2 million people were going to die... that you could catch it easily from surfaces... that it was unsafe to be outside in the sun... that you were in significant danger just by walking by someone in the store?

Is Covid-19 severe for a narrow band of our population? Of course. The flu is dangerous for an even broader band of our population.

Here is DIRECT proof that CDC undercounts flu deaths... and still counts around 50K most years and somewhere between 46K and 95K in 2017-2018.

CDC Novel H1N1 Flu | CDC Estimates of 2009 H1N1 Influenza Cases, Hospitalizations and Deaths in the United States
Burden of Influenza

Simply put... yes there is. CDC's first attempt at a data based IFR was .4% with a 35% asymptomatic assumption. That was using "conservative" numbers for infections and inflated numbers for deaths. According to the instructions given above... George Floyd will be listed as a Covid death. He was apparently Covid-19 positive when strangled to death while on drugs.... so obviously his deaths should be used to inflate the Covid mortality rate.

It may be... but it may not be once we have accurate numbers and a more apples to apples comparison where flu deaths are counted in the same way.

No. We actually don't. We have models indicated that it does. The field data does not yet show that. In the narrow test cases of the USS Roosevelt and Diamond Princess the infection rates were around 20% under very intense exposure.

Yielding a "so what?" If only 5% of people have symptoms then that's not bad news. It also means herd immunity can develop quickly and with very little "pain".

However... WHO now says based on DATA rather than models that asymptomatic spread is very unlikely. This isn't what the "models" said... but the field data does.

climate change called and asked you to leave the “models” out.

 

[kmkemp11]

Which states have been caught under-reporting and what was the other side? I fully suspect that many doctors in Missouri have NOT listed Covid unless Covid contributed to the death... which is what they should ALL do.

For one instance: Florida official says she was ousted for refusing to censor coronavirus data

Right. Based on WHAT? Speculations by those who told us 2.2 million people were going to die... that you could catch it easily from surfaces... that it was unsafe to be outside in the sun... that you were in significant danger just by walking by someone in the store?

Is Covid-19 severe for a narrow band of our population? Of course. The flu is dangerous for an even broader band of our population.

Here is DIRECT proof that CDC undercounts flu deaths... and still counts around 50K most years and somewhere between 46K and 95K in 2017-2018.

CDC Novel H1N1 Flu | CDC Estimates of 2009 H1N1 Influenza Cases, Hospitalizations and Deaths in the United States
Burden of Influenza

Many models (this sounds like one of them) exist to predict the worst case: no intervention. Obviously, this is new, so we were working with a lot of unknowns so the uncertainty range was high. The fact is that the flu is not even in the same ballpark as COVID-19. There have been about twice as many COVID-19 deaths so far this year than a typical full year for the flu in spite of the extreme measures that we've taken to control it. We can talk about undercounting and overcounting... it is extremely likely that COVID is an order of magnitude more deadly.

Simply put... yes there is. CDC's first attempt at a data based IFR was .4% with a 35% asymptomatic assumption. That was using "conservative" numbers for infections and inflated numbers for deaths. According to the instructions given above... George Floyd will be listed as a Covid death. He was apparently Covid-19 positive when strangled to death while on drugs.... so obviously his deaths should be used to inflate the Covid mortality rate.

There's no denying that an incentive was introduced to over-report. It's also true that there are likely many more who died without ever going to a hospital or getting tested. When you only look at one distortion of a number, you are led to an incomplete picture.

It may be... but it may not be once we have accurate numbers and a more apples to apples comparison where flu deaths are counted in the same way.

I guess anything is possible, but the data doesn't give me any reason to think that is true.

No. We actually don't. We have models indicating that it does. The field data does not yet show that. In the narrow test cases of the USS Roosevelt and Diamond Princess the infection rates were around 20% under very intense exposure. A virulent flu strain would have been just as bad or worse.

Got links for those? Just going by the raw numbers of confirmed cases, I think the conclusion is pretty safe.

Yielding a "so what?" If only 5% of people have symptoms then that's not bad news. It also means herd immunity can develop quickly and with very little "pain".

However... WHO now says based on DATA rather than models that asymptomatic spread is very unlikely. This isn't what the "models" said... but the field data does.

It would obviously be a great outcome if we've already been infected... because finding out that COVID-19 has a similar death rate to the flu and is only several orders of magnitude more communicable would be a huge upgrade from what we think we know about it right now.

 

[sjt18]

For one instance: Florida official says she was ousted for refusing to censor coronavirus data

Where's the rest of this story? How was she asked to censor it? Was the request reasonable? Was she caught overcounting like Colorado was?

This story hit the media... then died just as quickly.

Many models (this sounds like one of them) exist to predict the worst case: no intervention.

That is NOT how it was used or sold.... and the direct evidence shows that the "intervention" has been of questionable value. Many like to compare Sweden to neighboring countries but then wring their hands when they're compared to western nations overall. Japan has done extraordinarily well without the lockdowns. S Korea has done better than use with less extreme measures.

In fact, S Korea's model is probably what we should have done. They aggressively quarantined the ill. They protected the vulnerable.

Obviously, this is new, so we were working with a lot of unknowns so the uncertainty range was high. The fact is that the flu is not even in the same ballpark as COVID-19. There have been about twice as many COVID-19 deaths so far this year than a typical full year for the flu in spite of the extreme measures that we've taken to control it. We can talk about undercounting and overcounting... it is extremely likely that COVID is an order of magnitude more deadly.

NO THERE HAVEN'T. I posted an article DIRECTLY FROM THE CDC concerning the undercounting of flu deaths. Read it. Things EXPLICITLY mentioned as NOT counting in flu death totals... ARE being counted under the direction of Dr Birx. CDC KNOWS there are A LOT more flu deaths than they count.

I posted a video demonstrating that even a leukemia patient who was placed in hospice with 4 weeks to live could be counted as a Covid death if they contracted it. Why doesn't the CDC segregate this information into Covid-19 cause of death, Covid-19 contributor to death, Covid-19 incidental to death? We have the "caused by"... that's 7% coming DIRECTLY from CDC.

This isn't info coming from some alien abduction site. I'm not changing the meaning of any of it.

There's no denying that an incentive was introduced to over-report. It's also true that there are likely many more who died without ever going to a hospital or getting tested. When you only look at one distortion of a number, you are led to an incomplete picture.

There may have been deaths prior to when it was thought the first cases occurred. It is HIGHLY unlikely that there have been many missed since.

I guess anything is possible, but the data doesn't give me any reason to think that is true.

So the simple fact that people who died "clearly of another cause" being included in the death count doesn't bother you or skew the number? You are convinced that the "confirmed" cases captures anything close to the total? The undercounting of flu deaths doesn't give you pause concerning the reliability of the numbers made to compare?

Got links for those? Just going by the raw numbers of confirmed cases, I think the conclusion is pretty safe.

Wow. Just wow.

see the table at the bottom. There were a few more cases confirmed afterwards but the % should not change much... 410 divided by 696 = 59% asymptomatic. The avg passenger age was 69. The crew avg age was 36. Overall avg age was 60. Only 19% were infected in spite of being in close quarters using the same facilities and living spaces with NO social distancing or other measures.

COVID-19 pandemic on Diamond Princess - Wikipedia

The sailors were obviously much younger.... but have you seen the tight spaces they live, eat, work, and sleep in? Just when sleeping they're in CDC's definition of "close contact" for more than 6 hours daily.

Most sailors on US carrier with COVID-19 are asymptomatic

It would obviously be a great outcome if we've already been infected... because finding out that COVID-19 has a similar death rate to the flu and is only several orders of magnitude more communicable would be a huge upgrade from what we think we know about it right now.

Every new "discovery" from actual data has moved in that direction.

This isn't new but is relevant even though the MSM largely ignored it.

COVID-19 Antibody Seroprevalence in Santa Clara County, California

Does This CDC Study Deliver the Knockout Blow in the COVID Lockdown Debate?



All of this is before you even consider the deaths caused by the measures taken in response to Covid-19. There are articles that go into much more detail than this one.

The 'False Debate' About Reopening the Economy Is the One That Ignores the Enormous Human Cost of Sweeping COVID-19 Control Measures[/QUOTE]

 

[Pride85]

Yes, there has been a lot of factors that distort the data. There was an incentive created in one of the bills Congress passed to inflate numbers. Several states have been caught under-reporting data on purpose. Our testing has improved over time. An antibody test came out, but apparently it has some issues also. Let's not just pick one of them out...

Bottom line: any comparisons that make it seem like it's no worse than the flu are intentionally wrong and designed to control you. Even if we find out that a huge number of people are asymptomatic, there is almost no chance that the death rate is lower than the flu. In fact, it would be a huge surprise if it wasn't at least one order of magnitude higher. We already know it spreads much more easily than the flu, and if we find out that a huge number of people are asymptomatic, that would mean that it spreads even more easily than we thought.

The only thing that makes this worse than the flu is it is a viral pneumonia. The same groups area at risk for any viral or bacterial pneumonia. Please tell me ANY other time in recorded history have HEALTHY people been quarantined?

 

[Dumbledorange]

The only thing that makes this worse than the flu is it is a viral pneumonia. The same groups area at risk for any viral or bacterial pneumonia. Please tell me ANY other time in recorded history have HEALTHY people been quarantined?

History of Quarantine | Quarantine | CDC

 

[LTVol]

fyp

And of course their opinions dont count and their desths dont matter because theyre old anyhow. (Blue font). This kind of temark betrays a real callousness toward those who are elderly or have serious medical conditions

 

[chrismc1000]

And of course their opinions dont count and their desths dont matter because theyre old anyhow. (Blue font). This kind of temark betrays a real callousness toward those who are elderly or have serious medical conditions

So why did the leaders in America tell hospitals to move the infected people to hospice?

 

[Vfl2407]

The NCAA just approved the practice schedules: NCAA committee recommends six-week calendar to start 2020 college football season on time

2020 preseason college football calendar
DATES PERIOD DETAILS
June 1-25
Voluntary workouts
Voluntary and virtual non-physical activities
July 13 onward
Team workouts
Weight training, conditioning, film review
July 24 onward
Walkthroughs, team meetings
20 hours per week up from 8 hours
Aug. 7 onward
Practice
Preseason practice period


As far as COVID goes I hate to tell you guys but it is finally here and it is here in a big way. For example up until this week I had yet to have a single positive patient. Not a single one. Yesterday I had 12. Wednesday between my partners, myself and urgent care we had 32. We are seeing the results of everyone losing their minds during Memorial day weekend. The only positive I can say is we are doing a better job treating it, Remdesivir seems to work pretty well, so I think you are going to see mortality rates drop but just go ahead and brace yourself for the numbers you are about to see in Knox county. They are about to skyrocket.

Thanks for the info

 

[Remy]

This is a remarkably callous attitude. You are outright saying that you don't care if the players get sick as long as you get your football games. Get some perspective.

I outright said what I outright said. I need no interpreter to add or subtract a word. If you view that as callous, that's your opinion. My opinion is I'm, tired of knee clacking snowflakes making a big deal of a bad flu pandemic. It's here, it's in nature, it hardly kills at rates many other diseases in our nature do. It has a demographic it attacks more deadly than others. Protect those in those demographics as best we can and move on, college players need to be protected as best we can and hand out the medicine of they become ill. There are no 100% removals of risks in life, move along.

 

[Evergrenevol]

The NCAA just approved the practice schedules: NCAA committee recommends six-week calendar to start 2020 college football season on time

2020 preseason college football calendar
DATES PERIOD DETAILS
June 1-25
Voluntary workouts
Voluntary and virtual non-physical activities
July 13 onward
Team workouts
Weight training, conditioning, film review
July 24 onward
Walkthroughs, team meetings
20 hours per week up from 8 hours
Aug. 7 onward
Practice
Preseason practice period


As far as COVID goes I hate to tell you guys but it is finally here and it is here in a big way. For example up until this week I had yet to have a single positive patient. Not a single one. Yesterday I had 12. Wednesday between my partners, myself and urgent care we had 32. We are seeing the results of everyone losing their minds during Memorial day weekend. The only positive I can say is we are doing a better job treating it, Remdesivir seems to work pretty well, so I think you are going to see mortality rates drop but just go ahead and brace yourself for the numbers you are about to see in Knox county. They are about to skyrocket.

Thanks for this post Hawkeye, appreciate you.

PS: Tell Hotlips I said hello.

 

[swampfoxfan]

I outright said what I outright said. I need no interpreter to add or subtract a word. If you view that as callous, that's your opinion. My opinion is I'm, tired of knee clacking snowflakes making a big deal of a bad flu pandemic. It's here, it's in nature, it hardly kills at rates many other diseases in our nature do. It has a demographic it attacks more deadly than others. Protect those in those demographics as best we can and move on, college players need to be protected as best we can and hand out the medicine of they become ill. There are no 100% removals of risks in life, move along.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but the knee clacking snowflake BS aimed at anyone who doesn't share your opinion is just being an ASS

 

[swampfoxfan]

fyp

That is not at all true, not at all. So if you are going to outright lie, do it on your own post,not mine.

 

[Unconditional Surrender]

Yes, that works...unless COVID rears its ugly head...again.

In a lot of parts of Tennessee, it is currently as bad as ever. Expected to get worse.

 

[swampfoxfan]

I outright said what I outright said. I need no interpreter to add or subtract a word. If you view that as callous, that's your opinion. My opinion is I'm, tired of knee clacking snowflakes making a big deal of a bad flu pandemic. It's here, it's in nature, it hardly kills at rates many other diseases in our nature do. It has a demographic it attacks more deadly than others. Protect those in those demographics as best we can and move on, college players need to be protected as best we can and hand out the medicine of they become ill. There are no 100% removals of risks in life, move along.

Your take on things is the reason we have a problem

 

[K-town Vol Fan]

If we counted flu deaths the way we're counting Covid deaths... there would be over 100K every year in spite of vaccines and treatments.

Where are you getting this info?

 

[Dumbledorange]

In a lot of parts of Tennessee, it is currently as bad as ever. Expected to get worse.

Cases rise to 29,126 with 468 deaths

 

[Unconditional Surrender]

Smyna is currently having an outbreak

 

[Behr]

I outright said what I outright said. I need no interpreter to add or subtract a word. If you view that as callous, that's your opinion. My opinion is I'm, tired of knee clacking snowflakes making a big deal of a bad flu pandemic. It's here, it's in nature, it hardly kills at rates many other diseases in our nature do. It has a demographic it attacks more deadly than others. Protect those in those demographics as best we can and move on, college players need to be protected as best we can and hand out the medicine of they become ill. There are no 100% removals of risks in life, move along.

Just seems hypocritical to me after you beat everyone to death about being "shade tree doctors" over Trey Smith. Yea its different, but not really.

The thing about your opinion and sjt's is none of that matters at all if UT disagrees with it. You guys that think everything Covid 19 is stupid can think what you want, preach from a mountain top and call everyone sheep until you're blue in the face. It ain't gonna be your decision if or when it cranks back up a little.

I tend to agree they might be a little too cautious, but I'm only responsible for me and mine. So, there's that.

 

[sjt18]

Where are you getting this info?

CDC website and the instructions of Birx and others as to how Covid-19 "deaths" are to be counted. I've posted links several times to both the relevant part of the CDC website as well as statements by health officials assuring that Covid deaths are SIGNIFICANTLY over counted.

For instance, George Floyd supposedly had Covid-19 when he died. Even though he was murdered.... according to Birx his death should be counted as a Covid-19 death. An Illinois health official following Dr Birx's lead stated that even if someone were placed in hospice and CLEARLY died of another cause... they're counted as a Covid-19 death if they are believed to have the virus.

Add this to the financial incentive to call deaths Covid.... and you end up with a death count that cannot be trusted... and is designed to invoke fear in the public while covering the failure of officials to accurately model the virus.

CDC's website also says that Covid-19 is "the" cause of death in only 7% of the total death count they claim. The other 93% include deaths where it was a contributor but not necessarily the cause of death all the way to people like Floyd who just happened to have the virus when they died.

 

[swampfoxfan]

And yet... the facts say he's right.

The numbers are out there if you don't accept "just so" proclamations from the media.

If we counted flu deaths the way we're counting Covid deaths... there would be over 100K every year in spite of vaccines and treatments. CDC openly acknowledges that flu deaths are undercounted. Many old people whose death is brought on by the flu are either listed according to their primary cause or are simply listed as "natural causes". Not incidentally... over 50% of Covid-19 fatalities in the US are over 80.

NOTHING about this virus justifies the hysterical response we've seen.

Hysterical? your attitude is part of the problem, some countries have eliminated the virus within their borders due to hysterical response.