Practice dates

#76
#76
. Any common sense can see that masks would slow transmission.
"Common sense" < Studies demonstrating the relative effectiveness of cloth masks.

It isn't even "common sense". Air leaving your body through your nose and mouth at normal velocity will take the path of least resistance. With a mask on, it will escape out the sides and bottom but particularly around your nose and up. That is significant. The virus is carried in three ways- heavy droplets, light droplets, and aerosol. The heavy droplets fall to the ground pretty quickly. Unless you more or less face someone and sneeze into their face... most of those particles aren't going to make it to them. The aerosol and light droplets however linger in the air... and those are the particles that escape pretty easily around a mask or bandana. They can also go through many home made masks.

The Koreans and Japanese kind of had this pegged from previous viruses. The sick should wear masks and wear them correctly or preferably stay home. During significant outbreaks, you protect the most vulnerable and particularly the old.

Generally speaking, it isn't a great idea to spend a lot of time in someone else's "box" before, during, or after pandemics.

I've seen a couple of different peer reviewed studies saying that masks have limited value to prevent the spread of germs and can do harm. At least one and maybe both were conducted before Covid... meaning they weren't political. Just some boring report that only a few had any interest in.
 
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#77
#77
The biggest difference between the flu and Covid-19 is, when you get over the flu you are well. With Covid-19 it can cause lasting lung problems. I for one do not want to drag an oxygen bottle around with me for the rest of my life.
That is not true of most cases. Do you have the percentage and demographics for those who suffer lasting effects? Also, if I understand correctly, some of the treatments that were being used early on contributed to the lung damage.

FWIW, the flu often leads to pneumonia... I personally have scar tissue in my lungs from a bout of pneumonia when I was a kid.
 
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#78
#78
I'm thinking you didn't understand my thought process...I'm not disagreeing with you, in fact, I agree. But some don't, and that's ok. All I'm saying is let them do them and what works for them. If staying in the house is it...so be it.
Amen.

Only thing I would add is "now, shut up".
 
#79
#79
The biggest difference between the flu and Covid-19 is, when you get over the flu you are well. With Covid-19 it can cause lasting lung problems. I for one do not want to drag an oxygen bottle around with me for the rest of my life.
Correct. Remember Flu is upper respiratory and Covid is lower respiratory. Although many say it is the same and want to draw comparisons... there are major differences.
 
#80
#80
Two things.

One, the scare about hospital beds was based on models that have been completely WRONG. Not even ballpark close. Even NYC never ran out of beds.... I want to say they reached around 80% of capacity at their peak.

The death rate has NEVER been 3% or even close to it. Birx's direction to count pretty much everything as a Covid-19 death inflated the numerator greatly. The denominator has always been underestimated and generally includes only the "confirmed cases". Even on the Diamond Princess full of older people... over 60% of those infected were asymptomatic. The recently reported Infection Fatality Rate based on CDC's numbers was .26%... with an assumption of ONLY 35% asymptomatic or unreported cases. It is very likely far greater meaning the IFR is even lower.

Oh... that death number includes those counting using this logic just as Dr Birx instructed:



I don’t know why anyone trusts computer models designed to predict unpredictable outcomes. Climate change / global warming computer models have yet to be right about anything
 
#81
#81
And yet... the facts say he's right.

The numbers are out there if you don't accept "just so" proclamations from the media.

If we counted flu deaths the way we're counting Covid deaths... there would be over 100K every year in spite of vaccines and treatments. CDC openly acknowledges that flu deaths are undercounted. Many old people whose death is brought on by the flu are either listed according to their primary cause or are simply listed as "natural causes". Not incidentally... over 50% of Covid-19 fatalities in the US are over 80.

NOTHING about this virus justifies the hysterical response we've seen.
Thats wrong, just ask 6,000+ doctors and nurses who have died due to covid 19 in the U.S., so with all your painstaking research, please tell us all how many MDs and RNs die annually from the flu. I'll wait.
 
#82
#82
Thats wrong, just ask 6,000+ doctors and nurses who have died due to covid 19 in the U.S., so with all your painstaking research, please tell us all how many MDs and RNs die annually from the flu. I'll wait.

How many of those doctors/nurses had underlying health issues like obesity, diabetes, etc. Do you think covid has a higher death rate vs medical professionals somehow?
 
#83
#83
That is not true of most cases. Do you have the percentage and demographics for those who suffer lasting effects? Also, if I understand correctly, some of the treatments that were being used early on contributed to the lung damage.

FWIW, the flu often leads to pneumonia... I personally have scar tissue in my lungs from a bout of pneumonia when I was a kid.
Yes pneumonia can leave scars in your lungs. I also have those scars. You need to reread my post I NEVER said anything about pneumonia. Since you seem to like to split hairs, the flu does not mean you will get pneumonia. Sort of like the people think that Covid-19 is less dangerous than the flu get mad when they think the reported Covid deaths get inflated. Don't inflate the seriousness of the flu by mixing in pneumonia.
 
#84
#84
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#85
#85
Thats wrong, just ask 6,000+ doctors and nurses who have died due to covid 19 in the U.S., so with all your painstaking research, please tell us all how many MDs and RNs die annually from the flu. I'll wait.
Cite your reference. I have.... and I haven't gone out on limbs with speculation. Most of my information has come directly from the CDC.

According to CDC, only 7% of the claimed deaths were "due to Covid-19". The other 93% were some mix of Covid as a contributing factor and Covid as incidental to the death.
 
#86
#86
Yes pneumonia can leave scars in your lungs. I also have those scars. You need to reread my post I NEVER said anything about pneumonia. Since you seem to like to split hairs, the flu does not mean you will get pneumonia. Sort of like the people think that Covid-19 is less dangerous than the flu get mad when they think the reported Covid deaths get inflated. Don't inflate the seriousness of the flu by mixing in pneumonia.
Not splitting hairs. I'm making the point that getting Covid-19 does not always result in ANY type of permanent damage. In fact, it appears that it does not in the large majority of cases.

And it isn't splitting hairs to say that many pneumonia cases are brought on by the flu. It is very, very common. In fact, if you look at CDC's information they often combine Influenza and Pneumonia when discussing reported cases and the severity of a particular flu season.

I'm not "mad". We're having a discussion and as far as I know you don't have any ill-intent. I know I don't. We're sharing ideas and perspectives.

The flu is extremely serious for SOME people... just like Covid-19 is extremely serious for SOME people. I am unsure why you want to ignore the fact that flu deaths are not being counted like Covid-19 "deaths".... and that it matters A LOT to the comparison.
 
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#87
#87
I don’t know why anyone trusts computer models designed to predict unpredictable outcomes. Climate change / global warming computer models have yet to be right about anything
When used correctly, they can be useful. Weather forecasts are based on complex models... that frequently fail. You can model things that you cannot afford multiple trials for and get a "range" of probable outcomes.

When models become politicized as climate change models always have been and Covid-19 models were especially at the start then the information is not accurately presented to the general public. The models used to justify the shutdown likely had a low range and a high range. For political purposes... the high range was the one presented to leaders and the public. It was never based on realistic assumptions but rather "worst case" assumptions about literally everything from the severity of the virus to the worst possible scenarios for public transmission.

Some people claim that was justified. I don't believe it was. Those were speculated outcomes... we have historical data telling us the losses associated with the reaction to include deaths of despair and the ripple effect in the food supply chain that will ultimately assure people are malnourished and starve to death. I saw one claim that starvation deaths world wide could increase from around 9 million/yr to about 11 or 12 million due to the 1st world nation lockdowns. We see $12/lb sirloin steak when the food supply chain is disrupted. People in nations without the ability to produce the food they need... can't get food at any price.
 
#88
#88
Not splitting hairs. I'm making the point that getting Covid-19 does not always result in ANY type of permanent damage. In fact, it appears that it does not in the large majority of cases.

And it isn't splitting hairs to say that many pneumonia cases are brought on by the flu. It is very, very common. In fact, if you look at CDC's information they often combine Influenza and Pneumonia when discussing reported cases and the severity of a particular flu season.

I'm not "mad". We're having a discussion and as far as I know you don't have any ill-intent. I know I don't. We're sharing ideas and perspectives.

The flu is extremely serious for SOME people... just like Covid-19 is extremely serious for SOME people. I am unsure why you want to ignore the fact that flu deaths are not being counted like Covid-19 "deaths".... and that it matters A LOT to the comparison.
I never said that I thought the flu deaths were counted like the Covid. What I said was that having the flu is not as serious as having Covid. Complications from both can kill you. I just can't remember NY stacking bodies in refer trucks because they can't handle the volume of deaths during flu season. I am not mad either. I am just saying Covid is serious and too many people are pretending it is less serious than it is. Heck, some people are pretending it has gone away. SMH The numbers in my area are up now.
 
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#89
#89
I never said that I thought the flu deaths were counted like the Covid.
But that has not been proven true. You stated that people have long term complications. Some do. But the way the deaths are counted definitely impacts whether one virus is as serious as the other. And you cannot just handwave the cases where the flu leads to pneumonia when a person would not have otherwise contracted pneumonia.

I just can't remember NY stacking bodies in refer trucks because they can't handle the volume of deaths during flu season.
The increase in deaths is not the primary reason for the trucks. They did not have procedures in place to assure safe handling of the bodies by morgue personnel or funeral homes. They were unable to process the bodies quickly and release them for internment. You also had medical interest in studying the bodies that slowed things down. NYC has like 4500 morgue slabs. It wasn't the number of deaths that created the problem.

I am not mad either. I am just saying Covid is serious and too many people are pretending it is less serious than it is. Heck, some people are pretending it has gone away. SMH The numbers in my area are up now.
Who specifically has said it is not serious for a segment of the population? It is. It is also no threat at all to a much larger segment of the population... and people try to ignore that fact.

There are reasons behind the increase in reported cases that have nothing to do with more people contracting the virus. Contact tracing is now being widely practiced. So you have MANY cases where a person goes in with symptoms then their contact trace identifies several more people who are not and never would have become symptomatic. Those asymptomatic cases would have never been counted before.

You have to pay attention but many of these announcements are accompanied by "testing has increased significantly". A LOT of those "new cases" are asymptomatic or mildly symptomatic that would not have been counted a month ago.
 
#90
#90
I am not going by what is reported on the news for my facts. I am going by the confirmed cases in the city I live in.
One manufacturing plant near me had 45 cases last week. The place where I work had it's first positive case. Until last week I didn't know anyone that had the Covid virus. Now I know 5 people that are positive. One is a 25 year old healthy male. He is on a ventilator fighting for his life. Just some facts I am 100% sure of. I think we both agree it is serious. We are just approaching if from different directions. I don't believe pretending it is no big deal or pretending it is over are the solutions to this problem.
 
#91
#91
Thats wrong, just ask 6,000+ doctors and nurses who have died due to covid 19 in the U.S., so with all your painstaking research, please tell us all how many MDs and RNs die annually from the flu. I'll wait.
ah the old you are wrong and I'm right yet never references any legit facts while bashing someone who has posted fact after fact with data.
 
#92
#92
How many of those doctors/nurses had underlying health issues like obesity, diabetes, etc. Do you think covid has a higher death rate vs medical professionals somehow?
Don't really know what you are asking, but,I have no idea how many had underlying conditions,I am quite sure they were in a better position to receive advanced medical care than you or I. The rest of your question makes no sense.
As for obesity that would include 40% of Americans.
 
#94
#94
The biggest difference between the flu and Covid-19 is, when you get over the flu you are well. With Covid-19 it can cause lasting lung problems. I for one do not want to drag an oxygen bottle around with me for the rest of my life.
What? We have enough empirical evidence after a few months to run with this? Something tells me no...
 

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