possible recruiting violations thanks to kiffin

#652
#652
LWSVOL said:
has nothing to do with being swayed one way or another. What occurred, if a coach was invovled with it, is enough for a fall. Doesn't matter where the recruits ended up.

I'm not here to argue one way or the other how serious that particular indicent is. Small potatoes in the grand scheme of things.

The facts are, if we get that LOI, that whole episode opened up the door to looking at everything at UT. When that happens, secondary violations are just an itch Tennessee will be scratching compared to other potential issues.
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no debate about lifting the skirt, but I'm guessing it was getting lifted after the Kiffin departure to USC, whether that incident happened or not.
 
#653
#653
BigPapaVol said:
people defend the staff as a recruiting and coaching outfit, not as choir boys. Most acknowledge that the guy is a petulant douchebag.
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I just don't see how their style of recruiting was great. Looks good on paper, but the results are worse. I know fulmer was no saint either and maybe the only improvement I seen from fulmer's staff to kiffins was some of the players were actually coached up a little better.
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#654
#654
orangespirit said:
I just don't see how their style of recruiting was great. Looks good on paper, but the results are worse. I know fulmer was no saint either and maybe the only improvement I seen from fulmer's staff to kiffins was some of the players were actually coached up a little better.
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results are worse only because he carpetbagged us, not because he was struggling on the recruiting trail. His departure has proven disastrous, but that has nothing to do with the trail his staff was blazing on the recruiting trail or the physical approach to football that he was restoring here.
 
#655
#655
I hate the NCAA nazis and your former coach and I really hate for a SEC school to be in the headlines again with violations since it will be a black eye for all of us but....

I remember a few years ago and the fact that I could not go to one of the Bama boards without reading a gloating TN or Barn fan about our troubles with the NCAA. We survived it and you will too but until then....

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
 
#656
#656
utmba93 said:
Okay, but let's assume the NCAA finds evidence that Kiffin snubbed his nose at them, at Slive, and at other authorities. The next question they ask is what did UT do to curtail the behavior.

Answer:
1) Compliance was a pain in Kiff's side. That was public.
2) There was never any sign from the AD's office about any displeasure with CLK's actions, on or off the field. The AD showed 100% support in every public way imaginable. The record will show that Hamilton did nothing to protect the program.3) If the AD had backed compliance, alleged violations may not have occurred. Instead, he created a culture that reassured CLK that his behavior was acceptable.
4) The AD has yet to accept any responsibility for wrongdoings, other than reporting secondary violations, and has not imposed any sanctions on the football program. This shows persistence in ignoring the 'AA's rules by UT's administrative head.

Thus, the NCAA will punish UT for not dealing with the situation appropriately. USC figured that out too late. The result was the same. AD is gone, new AD installed.

Take the action before the sanctions, and UT could avoid further penalties.

I'm not big fan of the AA and its rules. But, they will punish those who neglect them. That is clear.

Essentially, I care a lot more for the program, than I do the AD.


And, that's the sound of throwing Hamilton under the bus. :hi:
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OK, I'm back (false alarm). I read the post. My question is why do you think the record will show the AD did nothing. I mean, that seems to me like an insider comment. For you to know there was no corrective action, verbal, written, in a personel file and e-mail some where for you to say that the record will show this. That is my point. I realize you have now went on the record to say you have no inside knowledge. Can you please explain how you know this.
Thanks in adavnce for you kind, polite explanation.
 
#657
#657
alwaysbama said:
I hate the NCAA nazis and your former coach and I really hate for a SEC school to be in the headlines again with violations since it will be a black eye for all of us but....

I remember a few years ago and the fact that I could not go to one of the Bama boards without reading a gloating TN or Barn fan about our troubles with the NCAA. We survived it and you will too but until then....

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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With the AA one state away, you should be worried. It's not like they don't have their favorite spots to visit in your town.
 
#658
#658
alwaysbama said:
I hate the NCAA nazis and your former coach and I really hate for a SEC school to be in the headlines again with violations since it will be a black eye for all of us but....

I remember a few years ago and the fact that I could not go to one of the Bama boards without reading a gloating TN or Barn fan about our troubles with the NCAA. We survived it and you will too but until then....

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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what a salve. Can you invite a few more over to tell us that the sky doesn't always fall on cheaters? We can't really tell, since cheaters in the SEC are so hard to find.
 
#659
#659
hatvol96 said:
No. The facts are what they are. That's not going to change. The hostess thing was Reaves' baby. If it went bad because he went rogue, that's on him. Organizations have struture for a reason.
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Doesn't that mean it's on us now?

Not to evoke images of mushroom clouds this weekend, but the fallout from Hambone's Experiment might make Knoxville look like Chernobyl.

Especially if you are right about Dooley.
 
#660
#660
Kvol87 said:
OK, I'm back (false alarm). I read the post. My question is why do you think the record will show the AD did nothing. I mean, that seems to me like an insider comment. For you to know there was no corrective action, verbal, written, in a personel file and e-mail some where for you to say that the record will show this. That is my point. I realize you have now went on the record to say you have no inside knowledge. Can you please explain how you know this.
Thanks in adavnce for you kind, polite explanation.
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I got 10-1 odds that Bertani and Compliance "well" documented Kiffin and O's transgressions. Now, depending on how detailed and accurate those documents are, they might land Hammy in hot water if he knew about it and did nothing. If UT can somehow show institutional control within the compliance office, and show that they did everything in their power to take care of business, we probably won't see much. Now, if Bertani and his office decided to remove themselves from the situation and let chaos run a muck, then we might be in trouble. Everything I have been told though, Kiffin and O wanted no part of compliance and did everything they could to circumvent their effectiveness, which is why we went out of our way to make sure those violations were public. I'm not 100% on that, but that's the impression I get from it.
 
#661
#661
Kvol87 said:
OK, I'm back (false alarm). I read the post. My question is why do you think the record will show the AD did nothing. I mean, that seems to me like an insider comment. For you to know there was no corrective action, verbal, written, in a personel file and e-mail some where for you to say that the record will show this. That is my point. I realize you have now went on the record to say you have no inside knowledge. Can you please explain how you know this.
Thanks in adavnce for you kind, polite explanation.
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Redundant. BPV pointed this out, intelligently, to which I responded (see above).

Also, compare your post to his and you might learn why folks respond to you differently.

* personnel
*advance
 
#662
#662
utgibbs said:
Doesn't that mean it's on us now?

Not to evoke images of mushroom clouds this weekend, but the fallout from Hambone's Experiment might make Knoxville look like Chernobyl.

Especially if you are right about Dooley.
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really? From a group with a one year stint at UT? You're hinting at a lack of institutional control beatdown, but it doesn't jibe at all with the facts. If Pearl and Fulmer are thrown in and have done some egregious things, then there might be more, but the Kiffin year has no business being compared to a nuclear meltdown.
 
#663
#663
BigPapaVol said:
results are worse only because he carpetbagged us, not because he was struggling on the recruiting trail. His departure has proven disastrous, but that has nothing to do with the trail his staff was blazing on the recruiting trail or the physical approach to football that he was restoring here.
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Disagree. The data will back me up too. Kiffin was "Fulmer-in-Decline" at recruiting at Tennessee (which is good, but no improvement). Dooley improved upon his class and only got it to 10.
 
#666
#666
g8terh8ter_eric said:
I got 10-1 odds that Bertani and Compliance "well" documented Kiffin and O's transgressions. Now, depending on how detailed and accurate those documents are, they might land Hammy in hot water if he knew about it and did nothing. If UT can somehow show institutional control within the compliance office, and show that they did everything in their power to take care of business, we probably won't see much. Now, if Bertani and his office decided to remove themselves from the situation and let chaos run a muck, then we might be in trouble. Everything I have been told though, Kiffin and O wanted no part of compliance and did everything they could to circumvent their effectiveness, which is why we went out of our way to make sure those violations were public. I'm not 100% on that, but that's the impression I get from it.
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I can't disagree that. If there is something Kiff did wrong, and If AD knew about it and If he did not act in the correct manner. He should be accountable.
 
#668
#668
utgibbs said:
Disagree. The data will back me up too. Kiffin was "Fulmer-in-Decline" at recruiting at Tennessee (which is good, but no improvement). Dooley improved upon his class and only got it to 10.
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Look, writing this 400 times a day for the next 12 years still won't make it true. We were about to have a monster recruiting class, and it wasn't steeped in stars. It was from actual evaluations of football players. Da'Rick and Nance were already in the works and we wouldn't now be wishing we had Chaz, Michael Tayler, Ambles and the like.

The data creams you, unless you want to pile me up with tales about busted star ratings as a way of life when a coach stops evaluating for himself and relies upon scout so he can appease fans.
 
#669
#669
BigPapaVol said:
really? From a group with a one year stint at UT? You're hinting at a lack of institutional control beatdown, but it doesn't jibe at all with the facts. If Pearl and Fulmer are thrown in and have done some egregious things, then there might be more, but the Kiffin year has no business being compared to a nuclear meltdown.
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Y'all have a real disconnect with the real world.

I know the Kiffinator, in the GoF imagination, is a wunderkind. In reality, he was no recruiting improvement over Fulmer-in-Decline (to say nothing of Fulmer at his best), and he was graciously allowed by Hambone to do his OJT at Tennessee. He left 2 - 3 wins on the field last year.

If the NCAA spotlight is going to be shining on us it is because of Kiffin.

His one year tenure may only get us a wrist-slap; it may get us the death penalty. Who knows at this point?

Regardless, Kiffin brought the police to our house. BOO!
 
#670
#670
utgibbs said:
Y'all have a real disconnect with the real world.

I know the Kiffinator, in the GoF imagination, is a wunderkind. In reality, he was no recruiting improvement over Fulmer-in-Decline (to say nothing of Fulmer at his best), and he was graciously allowed by Hambone to do his OJT at Tennessee. He left 2 - 3 wins on the field last year.

If the NCAA spotlight is going to be shining on us it is because of Kiffin.

His one year tenure may only get us a wrist-slap; it may get us the death penalty. Who knows at this point?

Regardless, Kiffin brought the police to our house. BOO!
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Not even close. Just a bunch of nervousness and a few secondary violations. It's just the point that we have to deal with it at this point that pisses me, and I'm sure many other fans off at this point.
 
#673
#673
utgibbs said:
Y'all have a real disconnect with the real world.

I know the Kiffinator, in the GoF imagination, is a wunderkind. In reality, he was no recruiting improvement over Fulmer-in-Decline (to say nothing of Fulmer at his best), and he was graciously allowed by Hambone to do his OJT at Tennessee. He left 2 - 3 wins on the field last year.

If the NCAA spotlight is going to be shining on us it is because of Kiffin.

His one year tenure may only get us a wrist-slap; it may get us the death penalty. Who knows at this point?

Regardless, Kiffin brought the police to our house. BOO!
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More absurdity. He might have turned the spotlight our direction, but his lone year here won't be getting us anything remotely akin to the death penalty. I know this at this point. If there is a huge penalty coming here, it will be steeped in actions from prior to the Kiffin hire.

I don't find the guy a wunderkind. He's as professional as Ryan Leaf IMO. His staff was as good of a recruiting staff as there is in the business and he brought that here. He approach to football was one of toughness, discipline and exerting our will. We needed it badly, and Fulmer's records toward the end were plenty telling about the quality of our scouting / recruiting.
 
#674
#674
utgibbs said:
he was graciously allowed by Hambone to do his OJT at Tennessee
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Reduced your post to the point worth consideration.

All the other stuff around it simply detracts from what matters.

The nature of that OJT will be pivotal to the investigation.
 
#675
#675
utmba93 said:
Redundant. BPV pointed this out, intelligently, to which I responded (see above).

Also, compare your post to his and you might learn why folks respond to you differently.

* personnel
*advance
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You seem to get into a spelling contest and throw insults when you have no answer.
And thanks for the spelling corrections by the way.

But please just answer the question. Be redundant please "ole buddy" just this one time because I just don't see how you have this knowledge. Come on humor me.
How do you know the record will show this?
 
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