Positional comparisions for UT-CAL

#126
#126
vols kick balls said:
Ainge had a munch better QB rating and comp %. He also had more YPA. The only reason the Yards were that similar is because EA missed 2 games last year and wasnt 100 percent for a couple others.
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Sorry maybe I wasn't clear again. You have to compare apples to apples. Comparing a Ainge's third season's stats to Longshore's first full season as starting QB isn't fair. Here are the stats:

CMP ATT YDS CMP% YDS/A TD INT SACKS RAT

Ainge's First Year (2004):
109 198 1452 55.1 7.3 17 9 5 135.89

Ainge's Second Year (2005):
66 145 737 45.5 5.1 5 7 9 89.94

Longshore's First/Second Year (using 2006, no data in 2005 where he played half a game against a DII team):
227 377 3021 60.2 8.0 24 13 12 141.63

The only problem with this data is that it seems Ainge was not the fulltime starter in his first two years, I'm not sure why, maybe a Vol fan can fill me in? Did he get hurt? Was he benched for the backup?

Regardless, just by glancing at this data it seems that Longshore can still improve after his first year as starting QB and that while he is not as good as Ainge yet, I think he will be by the end of this season.
 
#128
#128
CalTL said:
Sorry maybe I wasn't clear again. You have to compare apples to apples. Comparing a Ainge's third season's stats to Longshore's first full season as starting QB isn't fair. Here are the stats:

CMP ATT YDS CMP% YDS/A TD INT SACKS RAT

Ainge's First Year (2004):
109 198 1452 55.1 7.3 17 9 5 135.89

Ainge's Second Year (2005):
66 145 737 45.5 5.1 5 7 9 89.94

Longshore's First/Second Year (using 2006, no data in 2005 where he played half a game against a DII team):
227 377 3021 60.2 8.0 24 13 12 141.63

The only problem with this data is that it seems Ainge was not the fulltime starter in his first two years, I'm not sure why, maybe a Vol fan can fill me in? Did he get hurt? Was he benched for the backup?

Regardless, just by glancing at this data it seems that Longshore can still improve after his first year as starting QB and that while he is not as good as Ainge yet, I think he will be by the end of this season.
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It's perfectly fair - considering Longshore didn't start as a true freshman so he had more time to prepare.

Ainge split time with Brent Schaeffer (now at Ole Miss - playing who knows what position).. then he went down near the end of the year against ND with a shoulder injury and didn't play anymore that year.

Any wins we had before the ND injury were basically Ainge's Wins - specifically Florida but Schaeffer just went in on the first series.
 
#131
#131
lacrossepro70 said:
I doubt they put him out on kickoff return again this year... Bet he craps his pants on the opening series.
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Especially since earlier this thread, he was described as "a good physical blocker" by a Cal fan and he'll no doubt line up across from Ayers at some point...

Cal better wear yellow pants so noone can see the pee stain.
 
#132
#132
Ainge as a freshman and sophomore had horrible coaching, so those numbers are not relavent. Ainge has more potential than Longshore because he as just as good of an arm, understands the mental aspects very well, and is actually a much better athlete than Longshore. And, you cant say that about Ainge very often. Longshore has horrible footwork because he has horrible speed and quickness.
 
#133
#133
sadbuttrue said:
QB - even (outside INTs, Cals qb had better #'s and was putting up Heisman stats until he was hurt last fall in the arizona game... an injury that stuck with him through the SC and Stanford games, Ainge is more consistent but doesn't have Longshore's deepball or arm strength)
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I feel pretty confident in stating that I'm probably the last person on this forum that will EVER be labeled a homer, but you're way off on this one. Ainge is a far better quarterback than Longshore, and he has better arm strength than Longshore.
 
#134
#134
therickbol said:
Ainge as a freshman and sophomore had horrible coaching, so those numbers are not relavent. Ainge has more potential than Longshore because he as just as good of an arm, understands the mental aspects very well, and is actually a much better athlete than Longshore. And, you cant say that about Ainge very often. Longshore has horrible footwork because he has horrible speed and quickness.
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Agree to disagree. Ainge is a senior with 3 years of QB experience. Longshore a junior with a little over 1 year of experience. If Ainge has more potential then he better fullfill it this year, otherwise he'll have to do it in the NFL. So I guess if Ainge has more potential, then it certainly won't be college potential with him being a senior.

I hope you're not basing Longshore's horrible footwork on his first game against Tennessee. His footwork has gotten better with each game last season. And this year he has lost weight this year to increase is quickness (which is probably not saying much since he had NO speed and quickness last year). But then again, I don't remember Peyton Manning as being a speedy and quick QB and he seems to be doing pretty well for himself.

You also mention that Ainge understands the mental aspects very well. What does that mean really? Does that mean he doesn't need a top notch coach to run an offense well? Because you just blamed his failures in his first two season to horrible coaching. Unless you are Peyton Manning and can run an offense all by yourself, isn't the "mental aspect" of a game just simply a reflection of coaching? Kyle Boller was nothing with Tedford. If Ainge is nothing without Cuttcliff (sp?), can you really say he understand the mental aspect really well? Just a thought.
 
#135
#135
Ainge has as good an arm as any QB could ever want. There's no way Longshore has a stronger arm.
 
#136
#136
CalTL said:
Regardless, just by glancing at this data it seems that Longshore can still improve after his first year as starting QB and that while he is not as good as Ainge yet, I think he will be by the end of this season.
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Who cares? We play Cal this Saturday. Longshore can become the greatest quarterback to ever grace a football field by the end of this season :eek:lol:, and it still won't have any bearing on the UT/Cal game this Saturday.
 
#137
#137
CalTL said:
Agree to disagree. Ainge is a senior with 3 years of QB experience. Longshore a junior with a little over 1 year of experience. If Ainge has more potential then he better fullfill it this year, otherwise he'll have to do it in the NFL. So I guess if Ainge has more potential, then it certainly won't be college potential with him being a senior.

I hope you're not basing Longshore's horrible footwork on his first game against Tennessee. His footwork has gotten better with each game last season. And this year he has lost weight this year to increase is quickness (which is probably not saying much since he had NO speed and quickness last year). But then again, I don't remember Peyton Manning as being a speedy and quick QB and he seems to be doing pretty well for himself.

You also mention that Ainge understands the mental aspects very well. What does that mean really? Does that mean he doesn't need a top notch coach to run an offense well? Because you just blamed his failures in his first two season to horrible coaching. Unless you are Peyton Manning and can run an offense all by yourself, isn't the "mental aspect" of a game just simply a reflection of coaching? Kyle Boller was nothing with Tedford. If Ainge is nothing without Cuttcliff (sp?), can you really say he understand the mental aspect really well? Just a thought.
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First - Coach Cutt has said Ainge has improved drastically from this time last year till now... so he is still learning and he obviously won't reach his full potential in college... because none do if they make it in the NFL. Plus Ainge really only has about 2 seasons under his belt.. the first one was cut short by an injury and he split time... his 2nd year he split a ton of time too.. It's also an advantage to not start your freshman year - you get a longer period to grasp the offense and be more effective when you step in.

Peyton Manning is a running machine compared to Nate Longshore. :lolabove:

And - no - it means he didn't understand the mental aspect before Cutcliffe got there... and know he understands it better... he's not going to forget it when he leaves.
 
#138
#138
It means his development, mentally and fundamentally, was stunted for the first two years of his career. Therefore you keep mentioning that he is a senior as part of your argument, but in reality he is more like a sophomore because this is only his second year under Cutcliffe. And, it sounds like your argument assumes that potential ends when the players leave college?

P.S. Manning might not blow anybody away with his 40 yard dash times, but he is very mobile in the pocket and avoids the rush extremely well.
 
#139
#139
CalTL said:
If it was any other ESPN analyst, I'd probably agree with you. But Herbstreit is usually pretty fair with his analysis. IMO.
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Just so you know, some blog tracked all of the TV pundits' picks last year, and then had Klucko the Chicken randomly pick the winners as well, and Herbstreit finished 2nd to last, ahead of only Klucko.
 
#140
#140
IMHO, the game might well come down to UT's run game against the Cal LB corps. Our two guys are thick, and Cal's LB's are, by no means, the strength of the defense.

I'd look for a straight-forward "here we come, now stop us!" approach. . . .and, quite frankly, I think that Cal will not be able to.

There are, admittedly, a lot of question marks on both sides. Will our "talented" WR's step up and make plays, especially in hostile territory on the wrong coast? Will our young but dynamic secondary be able to contain one of the country's best wideouts? Is our O-line as improved as advertised? Will our D-line be able to pressure Longshore into poor decisions? Can Cal, this time around, handle the physicality of a power SEC team (on both sides)?

Saturday and the answers to these questions are only a few long days away. . . .
 
#141
#141
Actually, Cal's LBs ARE the strength of their defense, if that tells you anything about their defense overall.
 
#142
#142
Djax4Heisman said:
Cal has one of the best WR corps in the nation and a solid TE while UT has inexperience at Secondary but is loaded with talent. USC did a great job against Jackson last year but UT doesnt have near the personal as them.
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Last year on a different board, I told another Cal fan that the only team on Cal's schedule with comparable athletes to UT was USC... Your brethren mocked and scoffed and screeched... and after the game... well pretty much everyone associated with Cal's program was astonished and the speed and power of UT.

Don't delude yourself. While UT has lost a little in experience... they have GAINED in overall depth and athleticism in the secondary this year.
If Ut double teams Jackson we have Hawkins and Jordan. If you dont double team him he can beat anyone.
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UT plays fast talented WR's just about every SEC game. I can promise you that Chavis has seen and schemed for groups better than you have this year and used less talent than he has this year to neutralize them. Two that immediately come to mind are those of LSU and UF last year.

He had 131 yards on Antoine Cason the best CB in the nation last year while battling a chest cold.
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He had like 6 or something on UT last year while the game was still in question... Kind of throws water on the notion that a guy he lit up is the best CB in the nation, huh?
Nate Longshore has year under his belt and will have a graet game.
Advantage Cal-Big
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Longshore is such a fixed target that Fulmer isn't even pretending or obscuring the game plan... He's said publicly that they can't let him stand still... They won't.

For the record, who says this kid is the best CB in the nation? Arizona was 69th in passing D last year... that hardly qualifies anyone on their team as the best anything... though I did find his name on the list of national leaders of passes defended... at number 86.

QB - Even
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We'll see
RB - UT Big
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Probably... but not that big.
WR - CAL big
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I sincerely doubt it. Yours have a proven record... but it was run up against a weaker schedule and Jackson didn't even perform well against better competition.
OL - Even
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Nope. Edge UT... and UT has a better center.
TE - Even
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OK

DL - UT real Big
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yes.
LB - Even
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And you started this post claiming we were homers? Cal's LB's aren't even in the same league.
CB- Slight UT
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Yes.

Special teams - Cal-BIG
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How do you figure? Colquitt is one of the best kickers in the country. I agree an edge to Cal at this point but not big.
Coaching - Slight UT
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Until they get Syd'quan off that island... this is more than slight.
 
#143
#143
SJT, I'm going to have to disagree with you on a couple.

Alex Mack is a good center. Has proven more than McNeil to this point. Do I think McNeil will eventually have a better career than Mack? Probably, but for centers, they're both very good.

Cal's ST is a HUGE advantage over us. Colquitt is better than Larson, but not by a ton. Their KR, PR, and K are better than ours.

And their WRs, going on true evidence, is a big advantage over our WRs.
 
#144
#144
VolinArizona said:
That 4.29 was hand timed. He runs around a 4.39 or so. Berry runs a 4.35.
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You seem like a pretty sharp football fan. I know you wouldn't take Berry over Jackson in a one-on-one matchup, regardless of a few tenths-of-a-second difference on 40 times. With forty times that close, the only way to see who is faster is to watch them battle it out on the field. Berry may develop into a superstar eventually, but his first day on the job is going to be one hell of a learning experience.
 
#145
#145
swampbear said:
You seems like a pretty sharp football fan. I know you wouldn't take Berry over Jackson in a one-on-one matchup, regardless of a few tenths-of-a-second difference on 40 times. With forty times that close, the only way to see who is faster is to watch them battle it out on the field. Berry may develop into a superstar eventually, but his first day on the job is going to be one hell of a learning experience.
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I'm not going to say either way. However, just as a note, in Phil Fulmer's 14+ years, he says Eric Berry is the most ready freshman he's ever had, FWIW.
 
#146
#146
And John Chavis, regardless of who is covering Jackson (we don't move our CBs around to stay on one man), they won't be left on an island. It'll most likely be zone bracket coverage for Jackson.

IMO, the main thing from last year's game that everybody passes as an excuse was the horrible lack of adjustment by Bob Gregory.
 
#147
#147
sjt18 said:
Last year on a different board, I told another Cal fan that the only team on Cal's schedule with comparable athletes to UT was USC... Your brethren mocked and scoffed and screeched... and after the game... well pretty much everyone associated with Cal's program was astonished and the speed and power of UT.

Don't delude yourself. While UT has lost a little in experience... they have GAINED in overall depth and athleticism in the secondary this year. UT plays fast talented WR's just about every SEC game. I can promise you that Chavis has seen and schemed for groups better than you have this year and used less talent than he has this year to neutralize them. Two that immediately come to mind are those of LSU and UF last year.

He had like 6 or something on UT last year while the game was still in question... Kind of throws water on the notion that a guy he lit up is the best CB in the nation, huh? Longshore is such a fixed target that Fulmer isn't even pretending or obscuring the game plan... He's said publicly that they can't let him stand still... They won't.

For the record, who says this kid is the best CB in the nation? Arizona was 69th in passing D last year... that hardly qualifies anyone on their team as the best anything... though I did find his name on the list of national leaders of passes defended... at number 86.

We'll see
Probably... but not that big.
I sincerely doubt it. Yours have a proven record... but it was run up against a weaker schedule and Jackson didn't even perform well against better competition.
Nope. Edge UT... and UT has a better center.
OK

yes.
And you started this post claiming we were homers? Cal's LB's aren't even in the same league.
Yes.

How do you figure? Colquitt is one of the best kickers in the country. I agree an edge to Cal at this point but not big.
Until they get Syd'quan off that island... this is more than slight.
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First off In a couple other posts I admitted that UT has a better LB corp. But Cal is still very solid.

But when you said UT has a better center I lmfao. Alex Mack is one of the best centers in the nation at only a junior. Future 1st round pick.

Antoine Cason will be a top 10 pick next year.
 
#148
#148
As good as Alex Mack, he exemplified the "I just crapped my pants" play that Cal had. He was repeatedly raped.
 
#149
#149
One thing I just noticed while watching the highlights from 06 again, the Cal DL, even in the 2nd and 3rd quarters, were not getting ANY kind of burst from their stances. No offense Bear fans, but it looked awful. Our OL had more than a milisecond to set up before being touched, which as you know, in football, is a lifetime.
 
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