Pope: There Is No Hell

#526
#526
BeecherVol said:
There is the point Im getting at. You are explaining something with details and even time frames (when it comes to sin) but yet then say you ultimately don't know what that means in regards to God deeming you saved.

I don't have a clue. Not because I don't know what the Bible says, but because Im not the judge in such case. Me nor anyone else defining it with limits and details are unwise IMO, especially when we know saved christians will continue to sin even after a profession of faith.
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All I have done is give you what the bible says. God is the final judge. But, the bible does teach us to make some judgements about some things and has given us an ability to do so. We have to make a judgement as to where to go to church, who to marry, what sin is or isn't. 1 Corinthians 6:1-20 (KJV)
1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.
5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?
6 But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers.
7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?
8 Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
13 Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.
14 And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.
15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.
16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
This whole chapter is about making judgements.
 
#528
#528
Orange_Crush said:
"Twisting scriptures" is defining the Kingdom of God, as Jesus Himself used it, and giving verses within that context, as well as the context they are given within their book?

Seems to me you get rattled by correct division of scripture and refuse to answer very simple, direct questions... Like...

Considering Jesus' use of "Kingdom of God" as having come upon the earth when He was bringing liberation to spiritual captives, how can you continue to define it as "the eternal paradise where teetotalers go"?
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Your idea of rightly dividing and mine are miles apart. The context of the scriptures of 1st Cor 6 describes perfectly what lost people are.

The book is dealing with a carnal church straightening out a bunch of mess going on in the church. Not every church member there was saved. I would dare say that every church member you have isn't saved. Everyone that claims to be saved isn't saved.
I'm not the smartest fellow, but I can plainly read and understand what the bible says about the practices of saved people and lost which you evidently can not.
Carnal believers do act like lost people but God promised chastisement for carnal believers and an early grave possibly. So it can be determined that someone who lives a sinful lifestyle and never repented of their sins is lost. If a liar after his profession still has a bad habit of continually lying, he is lost period.
 
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#529
#529
BigO95 said:
All I have done is give you what the bible says. God is the final judge. But, the bible does teach us to make some judgements about some things and has given us an ability to do so. We have to make a judgement as to where to go to church, who to marry, what sin is or isn't. 1 Corinthians 6:1-20 (KJV)
1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.
5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?
6 But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers.
7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?
8 Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
13 Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.
14 And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.
15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.
16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
This whole chapter is about making judgements.
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You haven't given me anything I didnt already have.

Appreciate the time. Always curious to see why people say what they say.
 
#530
#530
BeecherVol said:
You haven't given me anything I didnt already have.

Appreciate the time. Always curious to see why people say what they say.
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Exactly, all you have to do is read your good KJV bible. I'm not trying to be judgmental with people, but knowing what the bible says about it gives me a great responsibility to at the very least warn them that are living such lifestyles to repent and get saved before they end up in hell.
 
#531
#531
BigO95 said:
Your idea of rightly dividing and mine are miles apart. The context of the scriptures of 1st Cor 6 describes perfectly what lost people are.

The book is dealing with a carnal church straightening out a bunch of mess going on in the church. Not every church member there was saved. I would dare say that every church member you have isn't saved. Everyone that claims to be saved isn't saved.
I'm not the smartest fellow, but I can plainly read and understand what the bible says about the practices of saved people and lost which you evidently can not.
Carnal believers do act like lost people but God promised chastisement for carnal believers and an early grave possibly. So it can be determined that someone who lives a sinful lifestyle and never repented of their sins is lost. If a liar after his profession still has a bad habit of continually lying, he is lost period.
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I've never once denied that lost people will claim to be saved. Nor have I defended someone who sins, nor called sin good, or good sin. I have given very explicit context to your proof verses.

And I can't help but notice that you yet again refuse to answer the question. Now noting Jesus' use of the "Kingdom of God" as on earth, using the power of God to liberate temporal lives from slavery... How can you now defend its definition as "the eternal abode of those who refuse to drink"?

In your time here, you've made it exceedingly plain that your choice study of scripture is to do topical word searches seking proof texts, out of context, that support your preconceived views. Roust has shown you as such. I've shown you as such.

You get flustered and vague when you are shown the context of scripture that disproves your veneer thin understanding of scripture.

One would think you would change your mode of study (and beliefs) when proven wrong, if you really respected scripture as much as you publicly profess.
 
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#532
#532
LouderVol said:
board games, card games, jokes, laughter, with family. I consider that more revelry than stumbling drunk thru Nashville with Dink.

not taking anything away from pissing on random objects all over the city.
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Wtf. That night was a blast. Watching your projectile vomit into the yard was my highlight of the weekend.
 
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#533
#533
BigO95 said:
Exactly, all you have to do is read your good KJV bible. I'm not trying to be judgmental with people, but knowing what the bible says about it gives me a great responsibility to at the very least warn them that are living such lifestyles to repent and get saved before they end up in hell.
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I have copies of it and several other translations.
 
#534
#534
Behr said:
Good post.

Yea, I wonder if more actually do know where that line is, or at least has a better idea where it is, than want to admit.

I'm trying to think of a more fitting word than "shocked", but all I can come up with is angry. In addition to shocked. Only because I think there will be many that knew deep down but justified it and/or kept putting it off.

"I never knew you". That's scary right there.
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I follow G-d as the prophet Daniel did.
Even if He slays me I will still seek and follow Him. His judgement is righteous and my destruction would be just.
 
#536
#536
BeecherVol said:
Im affiliated.

Just curious as to "want" to sin but still yet continuing to in different ways. When you sin now is it a conscience choice that you make? Or a mistake because you didn't "want" to anymore due to not being perfect?
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We are born with a sin nature, I can only speak for myself when i say that at times I do still want to sin..the further I get away from the Lord, as in get lazy about praying, not reading the Bible as much, maybe miss a church service when i could have made it if i went straight from work...the further I get away from Him, the stronger my desire to sin. It's a slow fade, as the song says. At first, may be a foul word slips at work. Then, temper gets a little short, couple days pass and a guy at work starts talking about his weekend at the bar and I find myself really wanting a cold beer...inch by inch a believer slides away down the path to the world, and Hell...this world is given over to th3 enemy. When he was trying to tempt Jesus, atop the mountain, he said "look around, I will give you all that you see." He can give it away, because until Jesus returns, it is his. Other scripture also points to this, (He that is in you is greater than he that is in the world, etc) to be "of this world, or worldly " is to not be a good Christian. Sin rules the day here...it will until His return.

As far as grieving the Holy Spirit, each man seems to get a different length leash. The Lord is certainly longsuffering, as the Bible says "a man's heart is wicked above all things" and " there is no good man, no not one." We are all evil by nature, but through the Holy Spirit, we can be capable of doing good works for Him. I do know that God is perfect and just, so sin is punished..chastisement..but like a father, it is also forgiven. When a believer has simply sinned to much, and refuses to change, God will plant him in an early grave. I fear this very thing...fear not being here t0 spoil my kids and grandkids.. because if my sin. I know that i don't deserve even 1 more day here, and it is only by grace that i get to love my wife and kids today. Priceless gift.

Hope this rambling mess was helpful somehow, i usually keep my beliefs to myself...I have an uncle named Beecher so your post caught my eye. Lol
 
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#537
#537
Orange_Crush said:
I've never once denied that lost people will claim to be saved. Nor have I defended someone who sins, nor called sin good, or good sin. I have given very explicit context to your proof verses.

And I can't help but notice that you yet again refuse to answer the question. Now noting Jesus' use of the "Kingdom of God" as on earth, using the power of God to liberate temporal lives from slavery... How can you now defend its definition as "the eternal abode of those who refuse to drink"?

In your time here, you've made it exceedingly plain that your choice study of scripture is to do topical word searches seking proof texts, out of context, that support your preconceived views. Roust has shown you as such. I've shown you as such.

You get flustered and vague when you are shown the context of scripture that disproves your veneer thin understanding of scripture.

One would think you would change your mode of study (and beliefs) when proven wrong, if you really respected scripture as much as you publicly profess.
Click to expand...

You have proved nothing here, my interpretation of the text is just fine and I certainly do not need yours nor Rousts approval of my interpretation. It is indeed talking about saved people that do not practice what they used to do. It also states for them not to be deceived. What? Does that mean that they have to make a judgement? What? How dare that bunch of Pharisees?
Keep twisting there Bud!
 
#538
#538
marcusluvsvols said:
We are born with a sin nature, I can only speak for myself when i say that at times I do still want to sin..the further I get away from the Lord, as in get lazy about praying, not reading the Bible as much, maybe miss a church service when i could have made it if i went straight from work...the further I get away from Him, the stronger my desire to sin. It's a slow fade, as the song says. At first, may be a foul word slips at work. Then, temper gets a little short, couple days pass and a guy at work starts talking about his weekend at the bar and I find myself really wanting a cold beer...inch by inch a believer slides away down the path to the world, and Hell...this world is given over to th3 enemy. When he was trying to tempt Jesus, atop the mountain, he said "look around, I will give you all that you see." He can give it away, because until Jesus returns, it is his. Other scripture also points to this, (He that is in you is greater than he that is in the world, etc) to be "of this world, or worldly " is to not be a good Christian. Sin rules the day here...it will until His return.

As far as grieving the Holy Spirit, each man seems to get a different length leash. The Lord is certainly longsuffering, as the Bible says "a man's heart is wicked above all things" and " there is no good man, no not one." We are all evil by nature, but through the Holy Spirit, we can be capable of doing good works for Him. I do know that God is perfect and just, so sin is punished..chastisement..but like a father, it is also forgiven. When a believer has simply sinned to much, and refuses to change, God will plant him in an early grave. I fear this very thing...fear not being here t0 spoil my kids and grandkids.. because if my sin. I know that i don't deserve even 1 more day here, and it is only by grace that i get to love my wife and kids today. Priceless gift.

Hope this rambling mess was helpful somehow, i usually keep my beliefs to myself...I have an uncle named Beecher so your post caught my eye. Lol
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I'm not sure about the giving back part but I can agree with this scenario of a believers life. Have no problem at all with it. The new nature wants to do right as the old nature wants to sin. Romans 6-8 gives great detail of this.
 
#541
#541
BigO95 said:
Repentance is evidence of true faith. God changed my want to when he saved my soul. Truly I didn't want to sin anymore.
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Then you didn't choose anything.
You're a hyper Calvinist and God predestined you for salvation. You repent because you're programmed to. You believe because you're programmed to.

Sadly God left you to still sin, just not a lifestyle of sin. Wonder why he didn't just completely make you sinless.
 
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#543
#543
Roustabout said:
Then you didn't choose anything.
You're a hyper Calvinist and God predestined you for salvation. You repent because you're programmed to. You believe because you're programmed to.

Sadly God left you to still sin, just not a lifestyle of sin. Wonder why he didn't just completely make you sinless.
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Some things were taken away from me. Some things were left for me to struggle with.
His Grace is sufficient for us all.

Edit: this is my strange way of agreeing with you.
 
#548
#548
Roustabout said:
Then you didn't choose anything.
You're a hyper Calvinist and God predestined you for salvation. You repent because you're programmed to. You believe because you're programmed to.

Sadly God left you to still sin, just not a lifestyle of sin. Wonder why he didn't just completely make you sinless.
Click to expand...

You need to sue your brain for non support!
 
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