Pope denounces trickle down economics

#3
#3
Gramps said:
Pope Francis denounces ‘trickle-down’ economic theories in sharp criticism of inequality - The Washington Post


I agree with the Pope. I strongly feel trickle down has not worked and it is one of the main reasons we have so many people being on government programs.

Thoughts?
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The Pope, and anyone else that points to America as a failure of capitalism, is mistaking capitalism for cronyism. Capitalism isn't about being greedy to screw people out of their money. It is about being free to choose and to let the market dictate what is fair in terms of prices and wages. The Pope should be squarely in the corner of a system that promotes that kind of autonomy.
 
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#4
#4
when it comes to trusting economic advice I'd put LG and the Pope on the same level

"Thou shalt not steal" seems to fit here
 
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#5
#5
The idea behind trickle-down economics is that if you cut taxes and otherwise "help" those at the top, success, jobs - and money - will trickle down.

The only money I see trickling down is from government programs. Where are all the jobs trickle down creates?
 
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#6
#6
Gramps said:
The idea behind trickle-down economics is that if you cut taxes and otherwise "help" those at the top, success, jobs - and money - will trickle down.

The only money I see trickling down is from government programs. Where are all the jobs trickle down creates?
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You have a socialist idiot in charge ...there are no jobs .
 
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#7
#7
Gramps said:
The idea behind trickle-down economics is that if you cut taxes and otherwise "help" those at the top, success, jobs - and money - will trickle down.

The only money I see trickling down is from government programs. Where are all the jobs trickle down creates?
Click to expand...

how do they create jobs when they have no idea what this govt will do and what costs they'll be forced to bear next month? Was Obamacare a tax cut or just another cost to businesses? You can't have the govt deeply involved in the market and expect it to work. One or the other has to give

is the Pope also advocating that churches give up tax-exempt status in order to fund more govt programs? An end to deductions for charitable giving so the govt can redistribute more of other peoples money?
 
#8
#8
Gramps said:
The idea behind trickle-down economics is that if you cut taxes and otherwise "help" those at the top, success, jobs - and money - will trickle down.

The only money I see trickling down is from government programs. Where are all the jobs trickle down creates?
Click to expand...

The part that's missing is government staying out of the equation.
 
#10
#10
utvolpj said:
how do they create jobs when they have no idea what this govt will do and what costs they'll be forced to bear next month? Was Obamacare a tax cut or just another cost to businesses? You can't have the govt deeply involved in the market and expect it to work. One or the other has to give

is the Pope also advocating that churches give up tax-exempt status in order to fund more govt programs? An end to deductions for charitable giving so the govt can redistribute more of other peoples money?
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Obama is a terrible president in my opinion but to be fair we were losing hundreds of thousands of jobs per month before he took office.and that was with the Bush tax cuts which should have spurred a tremendous amount of growth. Where are those jobs?


The SCOTUS ruled Obamacare to be a tax.

History speaks for itself. The wealthy have got richer. The bottom 90% have got poorer. Our debt keeps rising and has for the past 30 + years. The trickle is coming from government programs not from job creation and this started well before Obama took the office.

My personal opinion churches should not be tax exempt. They should be able to take deductions for their charity contributions but they should pay tax. There are way too many churches that are no more than a business.
 
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#12
#12
where is the incentive for a person to go get an entry-level position, that could lead to a real career, when the govt pays just as well or better? The govt enables people to remain poor yet decries the wealth gap from the working.
 
#13
#13
Gramps said:
Obama is a terrible president in my opinion but to be fair we were losing hundreds of thousands of jobs per month before he took office.and that was with the Bush tax cuts which should have spurred a tremendous amount of growth. Where are those jobs?
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The tax cuts without the war spending would likely have had an impact. Low taxes and increased govt spending don't mix well

Gramps said:
The SCOTUS ruled Obamacare to be a tax.
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which is applied to companies. When costs go up hiring doesn't take off. Not to mention the years of uncertainty on how it would affect their bottom line. How can you make hiring/expansion decisions when you don't know what costs will be?

Gramps said:
History speaks for itself. The wealthy have got richer. The bottom 90% have got poorer. Our debt keeps rising and has for the past 30 + years. The trickle is coming from government programs not from job creation and this started well before Obama took the office.
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they've gotten poorer because they are allowed to live off other people's work. The govt isn't shrinking and that gobbles up more and more of the population. Disability has become the new welfare.

I personally think way too much is made about the income divide
 
#14
#14
I continue to marvel at the notion that government benefits are high enough that people CHOOSE to remain poor and unemployed. For situations where that is the case, I think it's a lack of character much more than it is a conscious and informed economic choice.
 
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#15
#15
utvolpj said:
where is the incentive for a person to go get an entry-level position, that could lead to a real career, when the govt pays just as well or better? The govt enables people to remain poor yet decries the wealth gap from the working.
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The incentive comes when the assistance payments stop. The problem is that they keep getting extended and those able to work end up stagnating and losing whatever skills they had. I can say from experience that bringing on someone who has been on long term unemployment is a challenge for both the management and the worker. They are often out of the work habit and show up late, schedule appointments in the middle of the day and call off at the last minute for the most minor issues.
 
#16
#16
utvolpj said:
where is the incentive for a person to go get an entry-level position, that could lead to a real career, when the govt pays just as well or better? The govt enables people to remain poor yet decries the wealth gap from the working.
Click to expand...

Twenty-five years ago people could work low paying jobs and supports themselves, pay rent, buy groceries etc without any type of government help other than the earned income tax credit. Fast forward to today , there is no way a low wage employee can pay rent, buy groceries etc on their income, therefore the government is giving millions of people that do work assistance because their jobs do not pay enough to live. Everything has gone up due to inflation with the exception of low paying wages while the top 10% are earning more than ever. I ask again. Where is the trickle?
Trickle down has been terrible for the majority of Americans.
 
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#17
#17
lawgator1 said:
I continue to marvel at the notion that government benefits are high enough that people CHOOSE to remain poor and unemployed. For situations where that is the case, I think it's a lack of character much more than it is a conscious and informed economic choice.
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if a person is making what amounts to an entry-level salary what is their incentive to take that job over sitting at home? The inability to see 5 years in the future is what seems to drive many of the choices. Why jeopardize their current situation to take a chance on something that requires work to achieve?
 
#18
#18
Gramps said:
Twenty-five years ago people could work low paying jobs and supports themselves, pay rent, buy groceries etc without any type of government help other than the earned income tax credit. Fast forward to today , there is no way a low wage employee can pay rent, buy groceries etc on their income, therefore the government is giving millions of people that do work assistance because their jobs do not pay enough to live. Everything has gone up due to inflation with the exception of low paying wages while the top 10% are earning more than ever. I ask again. Where is the trickle?
Trickle down has been terrible for the majority of Americans.
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how much does a single person require to feed/house/clothe themselves?

YorkVol said:
The incentive comes when the assistance payments stop. The problem is that they keep getting extended and those able to work end up stagnating and losing whatever skills they had. I can say from experience that bringing on someone who has been on long term unemployment is a challenge for both the management and the worker. They are often out of the work habit and show up late, schedule appointments in the middle of the day and call off at the last minute for the most minor issues.
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which is likely why companies looked to hire people with a job then the unemployed. Same with anything in life that you get in a habit and it's hard for many to break. Gyms are filled the first 2 weeks of January but they aren't in March. Same idea IMO
 
#20
#20
That's because we've slowly been losing competitiveness. Government can't fix that without going in deep debt.

If you want people to have living wages, then you need to get people employed. Unemployment goes down, wages go up.

Some of that isn't fixable as Americans have been devolving into laziness. The new world requires technology trained employees. And that requires knowledge of math and science. Which nobody except for Asians care to get in to.

Some of it is by removing the government from the system.
 
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#22
#22
utvolpj said:
how much does a single person require to feed/house/clothe themselves?
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How much does a family of 4 require to feed/ house/ clothe themselves ?

I don't think a single person witthout children is going to be getting little if any government assistance.
 
#24
#24
Gramps said:
How much does a family of 4 require to feed/ house/ clothe themselves ?

I don't think a single person without children is going to be getting little if any government assistance.
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how much does that family require to simply feed/house/clothe themselves? I'm not talking extras I'm just saying necessities. If you can barely feed/house/clothe yourself then you should never add another mouth

My family makes a good living yet we don't spend extravagantly and are putting a lot away in places we can't easily access (so it's essentially reducing our available funds). We've cut out unnecessary things and talk before making any purchases above $100. We've run the numbers and could make it work on just one salary pretty easily.
 
#25
#25
Gramps said:
Twenty-five years ago people could work low paying jobs and supports themselves, pay rent, buy groceries etc without any type of government help other than the earned income tax credit. Fast forward to today , there is no way a low wage employee can pay rent, buy groceries etc on their income, therefore the government is giving millions of people that do work assistance because their jobs do not pay enough to live. Everything has gone up due to inflation with the exception of low paying wages while the top 10% are earning more than ever. I ask again. Where is the trickle?
Trickle down has been terrible for the majority of Americans.
Click to expand...

25 years ago employers were not afraid to spend. If you havent noticed Obama has not been very friendly to business. His answer is tax. Honestly, if I were a CFO, I would hoard money also. The unemployment rate (the real one) has taken competetion out of the equation and people are having to learn how to live with less.
 
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