POLL: Would you rather have Les Miles or Mike Leach as Head Coach

Would you rather have Miles or Leach as HC?

  • Total voters
    0
#104
#104
vol66 said:
I dunno, he kept the PAC 12 out of the National Title hunt this year by beating both USC and Stanford with a collection of 2* and 3* players. Who is that? Tee Martin and David Shaw, both names still on the list.
Click to expand...

And? You are what your record says you are. Leach also got curbstomped by a terrible Cal and mediocre Arizona. Last year he lost to Eastern Washington, an FCS team.

Leach's record at WSU is mediocre. If he were to get hired at Tennessee and do well, I would be happy. I am not sold on him like some.
 
#105
#105
BigOrangeTrain said:
And? You are what your record says you are. Leach also got curbstomped by a terrible Cal and mediocre Arizona. Last year he lost to Eastern Washington, an FCS team.

Leach's record at WSU is mediocre. If he were to get hired at Tennessee and do well, I would be happy. I am not sold on him like some.
Click to expand...

I’m not sold on any candidate being discussed right now. Thanks, Currie and Jimmy.
 
#107
#107
KingtUT said:
Ok, I can see how this is such a tough choice now.

Leach (certified nut case)

38-37 at his current job
122-80 overall (60% win rate)
1 Big 12 SOUTH title
6-6 bowl record

Les Miles (crazy SOB that eats grass but not certified)

141-55 (72% win rate)
8-6 bowl record
1 National championship
2 SEC championships
3 SEC western division championships

Yeah, I can see how this could be a tough choice. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Les Miles was a good (maybe great) recruiter in a place where there is an abundance of elite players available. At the tail end of his time at LSU, he consistently underperformed for his talent level.

Leach is the opposite. He has never been anywhere that recruiting was easy, or he had access to a massive budget and great facilities like an LSU or a UT. He does get the most out of the talent he gets though. Comparing the two of them in terms of performance vs. talent level expected performance is pretty telling IMO.

Code: 
Miles				
School			Year	Expected Wins	Actual Wins	Diff
LSU			2015	11		9		-2
LSU			2014	12		8		-4
LSU			2013	11		10		-1
LSU			2012	12		10		-2
Average				11.5		9.25		-2.25


Leach				
School			Year	Expected Wins	Actual Wins	Diff
Washington State	2017	4		9		5
Washington State	2016	5		8		3
Washington State	2015	2		9		7
Washington State	2014	2		3		1
Average				3.25		7.25		4
 
#108
#108
BigOrangeTrain said:
And? You are what your record says you are. Leach also got curbstomped by a terrible Cal and mediocre Arizona. Last year he lost to Eastern Washington, an FCS team.

Leach's record at WSU is mediocre. If he were to get hired at Tennessee and do well, I would be happy. I am not sold on him like some.
Click to expand...

And...I'm curious to see what he could do if he didn't have a walk on, 4th year senior QB, who signed with Cornell originally, and backs like Kamara and Kelly and WR's Like Callaway, not to mention an O-Line that has guys like Trey Smith and Cade Mays.

He has a DC that has them ranked in the top 15 Nationally for total Defense and last I looked ranked number 1 in the PAC in Pass Defense, it's a passing league.

Tee has never been a head coach, but when do you get your shot. Miles, nobody is beating his door down...I don't get it.
 
#110
#110
livefaith said:
This is a really good poll actually. I think I would go with Leach. Just comparing W-L records etc is not circumspect. Leach has never been handed the keys to the present jewel of the SEC like Miles was. Not saying he didn't earn the right. But TTech/WSU v OSU / LSU aint much of a comparison.

Leach is cutting edge offensively. Miles is more traditional. Then again, maybe less flash and more wins is more desirable. IDK!

Good poll.
Click to expand...

Thank you, :hi:

Seemed like people were split on the two.. and with 500 votes it’s almost 50/50. That’s interesting.
 
#112
#112
theknox said:
Les Miles was a good (maybe great) recruiter in a place where there is an abundance of elite players available. At the tail end of his time at LSU, he consistently underperformed for his talent level.

Leach is the opposite. He has never been anywhere that recruiting was easy, or he had access to a massive budget and great facilities like an LSU or a UT. He does get the most out of the talent he gets though. Comparing the two of them in terms of performance vs. talent level expected performance is pretty telling IMO.

Code: 
Miles				
School			Year	Expected Wins	Actual Wins	Diff
LSU			2015	11		9		-2
LSU			2014	12		8		-4
LSU			2013	11		10		-1
LSU			2012	12		10		-2
Average				11.5		9.25		-2.25


Leach				
School			Year	Expected Wins	Actual Wins	Diff
Washington State	2017	4		9		5
Washington State	2016	5		8		3
Washington State	2015	2		9		7
Washington State	2014	2		3		1
Average				3.25		7.25		4
Click to expand...

"expected wins" ??

Wow. We're now using "expected wins" as some form of a fact?

Look, I get it. His quirky offense with low rated players has pulled off some upsets and Les Miles has failed to meet expectations because he hasn't won some form of championship every single year he's coached. Im not sure either is the ideal candidate but I cant believe Leach is getting so much love for little to no accomplishments.
 
#113
#113
KingtUT said:
"expected wins" ??

Wow. We're now using "expected wins" as some form of a fact?

Look, I get it. His quirky offense with low rated players has pulled off some upsets and Les Miles has failed to meet expectations because he hasn't won some form of championship every single year he's coached. Im not sure either is the ideal candidate but I cant believe Leach is getting so much love for little to no accomplishments.
Click to expand...

We can both agree there is a difference between a night game in Baton Rouge and a night game in Lubbock or Pullman, right?
 
#114
#114
Leach has a great system and puts the right kind of players in it to run it. Im just not sure he would be able to handle the insane stress of this place. He's notoriously short fused.
 
#115
#115
KingtUT said:
"expected wins" ??

Wow. We're now using "expected wins" as some form of a fact?

Look, I get it. His quirky offense with low rated players has pulled off some upsets and Les Miles has failed to meet expectations because he hasn't won some form of championship every single year he's coached. Im not sure either is the ideal candidate but I cant believe Leach is getting so much love for little to no accomplishments.
Click to expand...
If you have a better way to factor pure coaching out of results produced under wildly different circumstances, I'll happily do my best to evaluate using a different metric. Comparing performance vs talent levels seems to be the cleanest way to do that in my mind.

Unless you think that even Saban would go undefeated at a place like Toledo or Michigan State?
 
#116
#116
Wezcoast said:
Leach has a great system and puts the right kind of players in it to run it. Im just not sure he would be able to handle the insane stress of this place. He's notoriously short fused.
Click to expand...

Miles on the other hand?
 
#118
#118
Wezcoast said:
I dunno. Les hasn't been publicly accused of locking someone's kid in a utility closet or anything similar. Lesser of 2 evils you might say..
Click to expand...

Since when did VN become opposed to hating an overbearing father, who also happens to be an ESPN personality, who has a silver spoon son who shows up in shorts, a t- shirt, and sun-glasses to an "uppers" practice?

But hey, yer probably right, Miles is just guilty of eating grass, and losing despite having more talent.
 
#120
#120
theknox said:
If you have a better way to factor pure coaching out of results produced under wildly different circumstances, I'll happily do my best to evaluate using a different metric. Comparing performance vs talent levels seems to be the cleanest way to do that in my mind.

Unless you think that even Saban would go undefeated at a place like Toledo or Michigan State?
Click to expand...

I don't have a better way. My way would have flaws also. There truly is no way to accurately compare.
 
#121
#121
I'm amazed that people have such an utter lack of context in that they can't see that success is defined differently based on where you're at.

Washington State is historically less successful than Vanderbilt and Kentucky at football.

You compare a person who took over a loaded team left by the best coach ever at a top 20 school in CFB history to one who took over a bottom 25 school in CFB history and say. "we'll, Miles won a championship".

We just had our first 8 loss season ever. Washington State has 5 9 to 11 loss seasons in the last 10 years. In 3 years they are 9-3, beat a top 5 USC team and a top 20 Stanford team. They have a top 15 offense and defense in the nation. He's worked an absolute miracle there and may be the most proven turn a program around coach in the country. He's done it at both of his stops.

When he took over at Texas Tech they were in the middle of a 3 year probation because they'd played ineligible players for 5 years from 1992 to 1997. They had one 9 win season in the mid 1990s but had 14 ineligible players on that team alone. Otherwise they were on a streak of 5-6 losses each year. They'd had 8+ wins one time in 25 years before Leach besides the 9 win team full of ineligible players. Leach won 8+ games in 8 of his 10 seasons there.

Miles was 28-21 in his first 4 years at Oklahoma State. Leach was 31-21 in his first 4 at Texas Tech, same conference, same time frame, except Leach took over the team on probation. Leach never had a losing season at TT.

Leach has the Adam James thing. Where the trainer, who doesn't answer to Leach, told James to stand in the dark. Leach actually gave up his job rather than sign an apology letter and admit he'd somehow wronged James when he strongly denied he ever did.

Les Miles has this accusation against him.

In September 2013, Sports Illustrated published a series of articles[6] as part of an investigation of his tenure at Oklahoma State from 2001 to 2005.

The series alleged Oklahoma State used a bonus system for players, orchestrated by then-assistant coach Joe DeForest, along with direct payments and no-show or sham jobs involving boosters. Miles was accused of dismissing academic standards to the point of players playing who were otherwise academically ineligible, including having their school work done by so-called tutors and other school personnel. Rumors also alleged that the staff tolerated widespread drug abuse among the players by using a sham drug counseling program and selective drug enforcement. No evidence linked Miles to any wrongdoing during his time as head coach at OSU and he denied the allegations.
Click to expand...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5 people
#122
#122
KingtUT said:
Unbelievable this is a 50/50 vote. What in the hell are you people thinking?

No wonder this fan base will never be happy

Les Miles by a mile.

Les is far from my favorite but geez come on, Mike freaking Leach...are you kidding me?
Click to expand...

Watch video of both Les Miles and Mike Leach. One is the dull tool in the shed, and the other is the sharp tool. You like dull "by a mile."
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#123
#123
KingtUT said:
"expected wins" ??

Wow. We're now using "expected wins" as some form of a fact?

Look, I get it. His quirky offense with low rated players has pulled off some upsets and Les Miles has failed to meet expectations because he hasn't won some form of championship every single year he's coached. Im not sure either is the ideal candidate but I cant believe Leach is getting so much love for little to no accomplishments.
Click to expand...

Here's an idea, compare both Leach's and Miles' coaching trees. Leach has Lincoln Riley, Dana Holgerson, Art and Kendal Briles and a couple more well known names. Who does Miles have, Coach O?
 
#124
#124
Vol Gunner said:
Here's an idea, compare both Leach's and Miles' coaching trees. Leach has Lincoln Riley, Dana Holgerson, Art and Kendal Briles and a couple more well known names. Who does Miles have, Coach O?
Click to expand...

Mike Gundy
Coach O
Jimbo Fisher
Bo Pelini

But hey dont let facts get in your way. So in the next argument would you like to compare who has put more players in the NFL between Miles and Leach? I would think not lol
 
#125
#125
VolArmy74 said:
I'm amazed that people have such an utter lack of context in that they can't see that success is defined differently based on where you're at.

Washington State is historically less successful than Vanderbilt and Kentucky at football.

You compare a person who took over a loaded team left by the best coach ever at a top 20 school in CFB history to one who took over a bottom 25 school in CFB history and say. "we'll, Miles won a championship".

We just had our first 8 loss season ever. Washington State has 5 9 to 11 loss seasons in the last 10 years. In 3 years they are 9-3, beat a top 5 USC team and a top 20 Stanford team. They have a top 15 offense and defense in the nation. He's worked an absolute miracle there and may be the most proven turn a program around coach in the country. He's done it at both of his stops.

When he took over at Texas Tech they were in the middle of a 3 year probation because they'd played ineligible players for 5 years from 1992 to 1997. They had one 9 win season in the mid 1990s but had 14 ineligible players on that team alone. Otherwise they were on a streak of 5-6 losses each year. They'd had 8+ wins one time in 25 years before Leach besides the 9 win team full of ineligible players. Leach won 8+ games in 8 of his 10 seasons there.

Miles was 28-21 in his first 4 years at Oklahoma State. Leach was 31-21 in his first 4 at Texas Tech, same conference, same time frame, except Leach took over the team on probation. Leach never had a losing season at TT.

Leach has the Adam James thing. Where the trainer, who doesn't answer to Leach, told James to stand in the dark. Leach actually gave up his job rather than sign an apology letter and admit he'd somehow wronged James when he strongly denied he ever did.

Les Miles has this accusation against him.
Click to expand...

You are what your record says you are. Spin it however you like. Most agreed on here that Schiano has a mediocre coaching record. And he does. Leach's is mediocre at WSU.
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top