Police charged suspects in NC case.

#26
#26
RockyTop572 said:
I said that in the beginning of my statement. I said that anytime someone is murdered it is a tragedy. But I don't think it's unfair or irrational at all to consider a potential future doctor and leader a greater loss over just some guy that sits around all day and neglects to pay child support.

Please actually listen to what I'm saying, I would agree that I think that it's unfair to weigh one person's life over another persons. We all have people that love and care about us and rely on us. I acknowledge that even the guy that sits around and neglects to pay child support probably has people that value his life and it'd be sad if he were to be murdered. But at the same time I think it is without a doubt a greater loss for society to lose someone who was a leader and future doctor. Which does the world need more of?
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Are you saying murder becomes less a crime as your perceived value of the victem to society decreases. If so, at what level of worthiness would the murderer become a benefactor to society by ridding us of a valueless member?
 
#27
#27
volfanbill said:
am i the only person who feels eye for an eye went out with the Old Testament?
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I typed the exact same response then chose not to submit it because I didn't know if we really wanted to start that debate here. But I completely agree as I mentioned earlier in this thread. I don't see the death penalty as a solution at all. I'm not sure what we're proving by killing people as a response to killing. I feel like people who are crazy enough to kill another human wouldn't be deterred by the fact that they could in turn be killed for it. Another example would be the number of murderers that then turn the gun on themselves...

As Dave Matthews says, and I'm pretty sure he got it from Gandhi, "an eye for an eye leads to a room full of blind men". And yes I know we aren't all murderers but that is a very wise statement if you really think about it.
 
#28
#28
I don't think the Old testament is out, but what do you think should be done with people who murder other people? There's a guy here in Memphis that was in prison for murder with an 18 year sentence, could've been out in 8 years but was such a trouble maker he stayed in for 13 years. He got out out 6 months ago and last weekend murdered his brother, three other adults and two of his brothers children. He tried to kill three other children and thought he did but they somehow survived. I don't think his discussions in prison worked.
 
#30
#30
hmanvolfan said:
I don't think the Old testament is out, but what do you think should be done with people who murder other people? There's a guy here in Memphis that was in prison for murder with an 18 year sentence, could've been out in 8 years but was such a trouble maker he stayed in for 13 years. He got out out 6 months ago and last weekend murdered his brother, three other adults and two of his brothers children. He tried to kill three other children and thought he did but they somehow survived. I don't think his discussions in prison worked.
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I think we need to revisit how the "discussions in prison" are handled and what else he is taught while in prison.
 
#31
#31
rbroyles said:
Are you saying murder becomes less a crime as your perceived value of the victem to society decreases. If so, at what level of worthiness would the murderer become a benefactor to society by ridding us of a valueless member?
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My honest answer is not a textbook, Sunday School answer but a part of me thinks that the world would be better off without some people (rapists, murderers, Bama fans) but I don't condone any human taking that judgment call in their own hands. I don't think it is my right to decide who lives and who doesn't. If we each got to make that call for ourselves justly I feel like there are enough crazy people out there to wipe us all out.

That being said I don't think murder in a legal sense is ever more or less of a crime. I was speaking more in a social sense. There are some people, I can give specific examples, that I honestly look at and wonder why on earth they exist. What good do they do our society as a whole in ANY way. Outside of maybe something like they pay taxes I really doubt there is a legitimate answer. But as I said before at the same time we as a culture can't afford to place that judgment call in the hands of citizens. It's just not our place to ever decide to end someone else's life.

Does that answer your question?
 
#33
#33
RockyTop572 said:
I think we should re-examine our "second chance" approach as a whole.
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exactly. The whole process needs to be studied and improved on in many more areas than just the prison discussions i quoted. There really needs to be more focus on making sure the person leaves the facility as a law abiding citizen that can help the community. Of course they can't help the community if no one will let them. All of that needs to be looked at and improved upon.
 
#34
#34
RockyTop572 said:
My honest answer is not a textbook, Sunday School answer but a part of me thinks that the world would be better off without some people (rapists, murderers, Bama fans) but I don't condone any human taking that judgment call in their own hands. I don't think it is my right to decide who lives and who doesn't. If we each got to make that call for ourselves justly I feel like there are enough crazy people out there to wipe us all out.

That being said I don't think murder in a legal sense is ever more or less of a crime. I was speaking more in a social sense. There are some people, I can give specific examples, that I honestly look at and wonder why on earth they exist. What good do they do our society as a whole in ANY way. Outside of maybe something like they pay taxes I really doubt there is a legitimate answer. But as I said before at the same time we as a culture can't afford to place that judgment call in the hands of citizens. It's just not our place to ever decide to end someone else's life.

Does that answer your question?
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So would you have the government decide who is more worthy of living?
 
#36
#36
rbroyles said:
So would you have the government decide who is more worthy of living?
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well, if he's agreeing with what I intended when he agreed with me, we are saying that no one except God has the power to decide who lives and who dies. That's my opinion.
 
#37
#37
volfanbill said:
exactly. The whole process needs to be studied and improved on in many more areas than just the prison discussions i quoted. There really needs to be more focus on making sure the person leaves the facility as a law abiding citizen that can help the community. Of course they can't help the community if no one will let them. All of that needs to be looked at and improved upon.
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I have no doubt that it has already been looked and and examines and looked at and examined but it simply comes down to the unpredictability of humans. I may say I'm a Vol fan and sit here and talk about how much I love them and everything but you have no way of knowing if I'm wearing a Kentucky shirt right now. There is simply no way of guaranteeing a prediction of a persons intentions.
 
#38
#38
volfanbill said:
well, if he's agreeing with what I intended when he agreed with me, we are saying that no one except God has the power to decide who lives and who dies. That's my opinion.
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Yes, we are on the same page.

It is just also my opinion that we would be better off without some people...but that is not a responsibility that I'm willing to assume for myself or designate to any other human. I elect to ultimate trust in God's sovereignty.
 
#39
#39
Here's a suggestion. Take the power out of the courts and the governments hands and put it in the hands of the family of the victim. If they vote for capital punishment, do it. If they vote for leniency, so be it. Just put them away where they can't hurt other people.
 
#40
#40
hmanvolfan said:
Here's a suggestion. Take the power out of the courts and the governments hands and put it in the hands of the family of the victim. If they vote for capital punishment, do it. If they vote for leniency, so be it. Just put them away where they can't hurt other people.
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I agree with the second part of your thought about putting them where they can't hurt other people, but I don't really think that the victim family are exactly the most rational and clear thinking people to be left to decide the fate of another person. If they were to decide to have the person killed they could look back on that decision in the future in deep regret and their life could be even worse off (just for example).
 
#41
#41
hmanvolfan said:
Here's a suggestion. Take the power out of the courts and the governments hands and put it in the hands of the family of the victim. If they vote for capital punishment, do it. If they vote for leniency, so be it. Just put them away where they can't hurt other people.
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i personally think that is a HORRIBLE suggestion. Too many simply want revenge.
 
#43
#43
Oh well, I'm sure the theological question of capital punishment won't be resolved in this forum so I'll just go to bed. Besides, nobody seems to be able to come up with any solutions, just "we can't do that".. Good night all.
 
#44
#44
hmanvolfan said:
Oh well, I'm sure the theological question of capital punishment won't be resolved in this forum so I'll just go to bed. Besides, nobody seems to be able to come up with any solutions, just "we can't do that".. Good night all.
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Technically from a theological perspective I have been told from the most credible source I know that the Bible actually condones capital punishment (in a current standing covenant with God).

And no we aren't going to all come to a consensus here in this forum but just because we aren't going to all drink the punch together doesn't mean that it's not worth discussing and having a further educated opinion on from all perspectives.
 
#45
#45
Seeing as how the accused murderer(s) are from Durham, I am wondering if all those people whe held marches and rallies regarding the Duke lacrosse team will be equally as vigorous in their demands for justice/vengance in this case?
 
#47
#47
vader said:
not at all. I am very conflicted on the subject sometimes.
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As well we should be. It shows we take putting someone to death very seriously. I don't necessarily like the death penalty but agree that it is necessary. Does anyone know the circumstances of this case. A motive maybe?
 
#48
#48
second suspect arrested, also charged with killing a Duke graduate student in January. The guy is 17, which leads me to belive that even if he is prosecuted as an adult the death penalty will probably be off the table. I am not a deth penalty advocate, but I am an advocate of common sense. There is no reason that we should allow the dregs of society to rob us of our best and brightest like this.

newsobserver.com | 2nd Carson suspect charged in Duke killing
 
#49
#49
VolunteerHillbilly said:
second suspect arrested, also charged with killing a Duke graduate student in January. The guy is 17, which leads me to belive that even if he is prosecuted as an adult the death penalty will probably be off the table. I am not a deth penalty advocate, but I am an advocate of common sense. There is no reason that we should allow the dregs of society to rob us of our best and brightest like this.

newsobserver.com | 2nd Carson suspect charged in Duke killing
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Why would the death penalty be "off the table"? I think they will try him as an adult and put him to death.
 
#50
#50
KB5252 said:
As well we should be. It shows we take putting someone to death very seriously. I don't necessarily like the death penalty but agree that it is necessary. Does anyone know the circumstances of this case. A motive maybe?
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That's what I want to know as well. I don't think that the death penalty needs to be used on every killing, but there are times when it should be a must. If this case is about two guys just randomly killing a human, then I think they should get the death penalty.
 
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