Playing Devil's Advocate

#1

TNHopeful505

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#1
You're a National Powerhouse in football. You have multiple National Championships. Your fans expect to be in the running for a National Championship each year.

You have a coach who runs you into the ground. You hire a up and comer who had good success at Central Michigan and Cincinnati. He looks like a decent recruiter, and had several conference championships under his belt.

He does okay, getting your programs to 8-9 wins, but then he has a terrible year. He goes 4-8 with no bowl, despite good recruiting.

Do you keep him?

Him is Brian Kelly. And Notre Dame did. And they're now 7-1, with their only loss coming to #2 Georgia.

So...playing devil's advocate here....would you keep Butch if you knew he'd have us in Notre Dame's shoes, ranked top 10 next year, and in CFP contention?

What are the differences between Brian Kelly and Notre Dame and Butch Jones and Tennessee? Obviously, ND isn't in a conference, so those things can't be held the same....but what are the differences?

Just interested in your responses, I am very much on the Fire Butch train.

But you have to think that Notre Dame was saying Fire Kelly last year, and now they're worshipping him again.

What's the difference?
 
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#2
#2
You're a National Powerhouse in football. You have multiple National Championships. Your fans expect to be in the running for a National Championship each year.

You have a coach who runs you into the ground. You hire a up and comer who had good success at Central Michigan and Cincinnati. He looks like a decent recruiter, and had several conference championships under his belt.

He does okay, getting your programs to 8-9 wins, but then he has a terrible year. He goes 4-8 with no bowl, despite good recruiting.

Do you keep him?

Him is Brian Kelly. And Notre Dame did. And they're now 7-1, with their only loss coming to #2 Georgia.

So...playing devil's advocate here....would you keep Butch if you knew he'd have us in Notre Dame's shoes, ranked top 10 next year, and in CFP contention?

What are the differences between Brian Kelly and Notre Dame and Butch Jones and Tennessee? Obviously, ND isn't in a conference, so those things can't be held the same....but what are the differences?

Just interested in your responses, I am very much on the Fire Butch train.

But you have to think that Notre Dame was saying Fire Kelly last year, and now they're worshipping him again.

What's the difference?

Brian Kelly laid the framework at Cincy and C. Michigan. Butch reaped his success due to BK's job at those 2 places.

B. Kelly also had ND in the BCS national title game and Butch can't win the East.
 
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#3
#3
Brian Kelly went 12-0 and took his team to the NCG in his third year. He also went 10-2 and to a BCS bowl game in '15. Those things will buy you the benefit of the doubt during a down year.
 
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#4
#4
You're a National Powerhouse in football. You have multiple National Championships. Your fans expect to be in the running for a National Championship each year.

You have a coach who runs you into the ground. You hire a up and comer who had good success at Central Michigan and Cincinnati. He looks like a decent recruiter, and had several conference championships under his belt.

He does okay, getting your programs to 8-9 wins, but then he has a terrible year. He goes 4-8 with no bowl, despite good recruiting.

Do you keep him?

Him is Brian Kelly. And Notre Dame did. And they're now 7-1, with their only loss coming to #2 Georgia.

So...playing devil's advocate here....would you keep Butch if you knew he'd have us in Notre Dame's shoes, ranked top 10 next year, and in CFP contention?

What are the differences between Brian Kelly and Notre Dame and Butch Jones and Tennessee? Obviously, ND isn't in a conference, so those things can't be held the same....but what are the differences?

Just interested in your responses, I am very much on the Fire Butch train.

But you have to think that Notre Dame was saying Fire Kelly last year, and now they're worshipping him again.

What's the difference?

The difference is that in 2012 he took ND to the BCS NCG...they lost, but were 12-1 that season. He also had a 10-3 season in 2015. Butch hasn't come close to that.
 
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#5
#5
Kelly was little more established. Last year was his 7th year at ND, and he had the cred of a 10 win season in the prior year along with a BCS NCG appearance under his belt.

That said, I have no idea of what his contract status looked like or what the temperature of the boosters was for bank rolling the buyout. It's not always about the wins and losses.
 
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#6
#6
You're a National Powerhouse in football. You have multiple National Championships. Your fans expect to be in the running for a National Championship each year.

You have a coach who runs you into the ground. You hire a up and comer who had good success at Central Michigan and Cincinnati. He looks like a decent recruiter, and had several conference championships under his belt.

He does okay, getting your programs to 8-9 wins, but then he has a terrible year. He goes 4-8 with no bowl, despite good recruiting.

Do you keep him?

Him is Brian Kelly. And Notre Dame did. And they're now 7-1, with their only loss coming to #2 Georgia.

So...playing devil's advocate here....would you keep Butch if you knew he'd have us in Notre Dame's shoes, ranked top 10 next year, and in CFP contention?

What are the differences between Brian Kelly and Notre Dame and Butch Jones and Tennessee? Obviously, ND isn't in a conference, so those things can't be held the same....but what are the differences?

Just interested in your responses, I am very much on the Fire Butch train.

But you have to think that Notre Dame was saying Fire Kelly last year, and now they're worshipping him again.

What's the difference?

The big difference is ND doesent play anyone out side of 1-2 difficult teams a year. Thier record will always be inflated no matter how much you slice it. Butch has a much harder road at Tennessee and now his best years are behind him. Jones had a loaded team and all he had to do was get around SC. Jones failed to do so then raised that with a loss to Vandy. That said, if the roles where reversed Tennessee fans would be much happier and ND fans would be standing on a big soap box. Remember the Bama/ND title game?

Kelly should have been fired when he killed that kid
Jones should have been fired after Georgia
 
#8
#8
Brian Kelly hasn’t made poor decision after poor decision, costing his team AT LEAST 10 would be wins.

Oklahoma x 2
Florida x 3
SC x 2
Arkansas
Kentucky

Just to name a few...
 
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#9
#9
You're a National Powerhouse in football. You have multiple National Championships. Your fans expect to be in the running for a National Championship each year.

You have a coach who runs you into the ground. You hire a up and comer who had good success at Central Michigan and Cincinnati. He looks like a decent recruiter, and had several conference championships under his belt.

He does okay, getting your programs to 8-9 wins, but then he has a terrible year. He goes 4-8 with no bowl, despite good recruiting.

Do you keep him?

Him is Brian Kelly. And Notre Dame did. And they're now 7-1, with their only loss coming to #2 Georgia.

So...playing devil's advocate here....would you keep Butch if you knew he'd have us in Notre Dame's shoes, ranked top 10 next year, and in CFP contention?

What are the differences between Brian Kelly and Notre Dame and Butch Jones and Tennessee? Obviously, ND isn't in a conference, so those things can't be held the same....but what are the differences?

Just interested in your responses, I am very much on the Fire Butch train.

But you have to think that Notre Dame was saying Fire Kelly last year, and now they're worshipping him again.

What's the difference?

Jones has shown no evidence he can be a top coach. Last year is enough proof for me.
 
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#11
#11
Brian Kelly hasn’t made poor decision after poor decision, costing his team AT LEAST 10 would be wins.

Oklahoma x 2
Florida x 3
SC x 2
Arkansas
Kentucky

Just to name a few...

Brian Kelly made even a worse decision which ended up costing a kid his life....
 
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#13
#13
You're a National Powerhouse in football. You have multiple National Championships. Your fans expect to be in the running for a National Championship each year.

You have a coach who runs you into the ground. You hire a up and comer who had good success at Central Michigan and Cincinnati. He looks like a decent recruiter, and had several conference championships under his belt.

He does okay, getting your programs to 8-9 wins, but then he has a terrible year. He goes 4-8 with no bowl, despite good recruiting.

Do you keep him?

Him is Brian Kelly. And Notre Dame did. And they're now 7-1, with their only loss coming to #2 Georgia.

So...playing devil's advocate here....would you keep Butch if you knew he'd have us in Notre Dame's shoes, ranked top 10 next year, and in CFP contention?

What are the differences between Brian Kelly and Notre Dame and Butch Jones and Tennessee? Obviously, ND isn't in a conference, so those things can't be held the same....but what are the differences?

Just interested in your responses, I am very much on the Fire Butch train.

But you have to think that Notre Dame was saying Fire Kelly last year, and now they're worshipping him again.

What's the difference?

Brian Kelly overhauled his entire staff.

At the end of the day, I think Bob Shoop is lightyears better than what he has been here as a DC. However, Butch let go of Jancek after a great year for us. To this day, I will never understand this.

Also, Butch hasn't done anything remotely successful to what Kelly did at Cincy......

Lastly, Kelly develops talent. Butch doesn't.

Notre Dame never got to the point that they were mad at the good recruiting classes because more thank likely, Kelly would develop those players.

It is widely known and Butch has been exposed that he does not develop players and the ones that show promise, tend to get hurt more times than naught.
 
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#15
#15
Brian Kelly made even a worse decision which ended up costing a kid his life....

Sorry but this is one of the dumbest things I have ever saw for the last few years.

At the end of the day, that kid chose to get up in the boom lift.

It sucks for everyone involved. You think Kelly doesn't feel bad that a kid in his program died?

That kid had a choice. To say he didn't is to say that you, as an employee, would blindly do anything your boss says regardless if you disagree with it. Especially, if you felt you weren't in a safe position.

The kid prolly woulda lost his gig, but he chose to get up in the lift.

The whole "Brian Kelly killed a kid" line that people spewed out during the leadup to the Bama ND natty game years ago was one of the most insane things I ever saw.
 
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#16
#16
Brian Kelly hasn’t made poor decision after poor decision, costing his team AT LEAST 10 would be wins.

Oklahoma x 1
Florida x 3
SC x 2
Arkansas
Kentucky

Just to name a few...

Bro, fixed your post. We were never beating OU in 2014.
 
#17
#17
has anybody watched Volunteer football for the last five years...it has all culminated into crap-for-a-coach...just because fans are more vocal now doesn't mean they haven't given Butch a chance, or they don't see this has become an out-of-control honey wagon...they're just done with the Butch-crap in all forms...and there are many...and by the way...Butch ain't even close to being Brian Kelly and Kelly sure ain't a perfect coach either...:)

GO VOLS!
 
#18
#18
Sorry but this is one of the dumbest things I have ever saw for the last few years.

At the end of the day, that kid chose to get up in the boom lift.

It sucks for everyone involved. You think Kelly doesn't feel bad that a kid in his program died?

That kid had a choice. To say he didn't is to say that you, as an employee, would blindly do anything your boss says regardless if you disagree with it. Especially, if you felt you weren't in a safe position.

The kid prolly woulda lost his gig, but he chose to get up in the lift.

The whole "Brian Kelly killed a kid" line that people spewed out during the leadup to the Bama ND natty game years ago was one of the most insane things I ever saw.

Brian Kelly is the most powerful man at ND and he is responsible for the football program. And the Indiana OSHA deemed ND to be at fault so.....

Kelly didn't kill the kid but the kid died due to a lack of oversight at the program Kelly ran..

This doesn't even include the suicides that occurred after ND players sexually assaulted female students.
 
#19
#19
Brian Kelly is the most powerful man at ND and he is responsible for the football program. And the Indiana OSHA deemed ND to be at fault so.....

Kelly didn't kill the kid but the kid died due to a lack of oversight at the program Kelly ran..

This doesn't even include the suicides that occurred after ND players sexually assaulted female students.

The kid had a choice on to go up on the lift or not. The logic you are arguing is that everyone should follow ever order the boss gives regardless if there any chance said employee is put in an unsafe environment.

Did Kelly march him up on the lift with a gun to his head? No, he didn't.

Is Kelly a dick? Sure. But to say he killed a kid is a joke.
 
#20
#20
There aren't many rational people here. Probably a wasted post. When the time comes they are gonna get brought down to earth. Soon.
 
#22
#22
You're a National Powerhouse in football. You have multiple National Championships. Your fans expect to be in the running for a National Championship each year.

You have a coach who runs you into the ground. You hire a up and comer who had good success at Central Michigan and Cincinnati. He looks like a decent recruiter, and had several conference championships under his belt.

He does okay, getting your programs to 8-9 wins, but then he has a terrible year. He goes 4-8 with no bowl, despite good recruiting.

Do you keep him?

Him is Brian Kelly. And Notre Dame did. And they're now 7-1, with their only loss coming to #2 Georgia.

So...playing devil's advocate here....would you keep Butch if you knew he'd have us in Notre Dame's shoes, ranked top 10 next year, and in CFP contention?

What are the differences between Brian Kelly and Notre Dame and Butch Jones and Tennessee? Obviously, ND isn't in a conference, so those things can't be held the same....but what are the differences?

Just interested in your responses, I am very much on the Fire Butch train.

But you have to think that Notre Dame was saying Fire Kelly last year, and now they're worshipping him again.

What's the difference?

One can coach... the other just benefited from the other's coat tails.

Jones talks about the "whole body of work". If his is good enough for you then just have the courage to say so. He had two great opportunities to win the East and failed because he's not a good coach. He had five years to prepare for this year... and the team is not much if any better than it was in year 1.
 
#23
#23
Brian Kelly hasn’t made poor decision after poor decision, costing his team AT LEAST 10 would be wins.

Oklahoma x 2
Florida x 3
SC x 2
Arkansas
Kentucky

Just to name a few...

Add Vandy 2-2 in here as well, may end up losing 3 to the dores. 3 of the losses to the gators were really bad losses. like last possession of the game losses, which we saw at OK as well. With the recent Kentucky loss you saw that same scenario play out, missed field goals, goofy offensive calls, lose late. We WERE doing that with good/ranked teams, we're now doing it with the Kentucky's of college football. A big step back, we're regressing and much of that has to do with the HC losing the same old way but with opponents further down on the food chain.
 
#25
#25
You're a National Powerhouse in football. You have multiple National Championships. Your fans expect to be in the running for a National Championship each year.

You have a coach who runs you into the ground. You hire a up and comer who had good success at Central Michigan and Cincinnati. He looks like a decent recruiter, and had several conference championships under his belt.

He does okay, getting your programs to 8-9 wins, but then he has a terrible year. He goes 4-8 with no bowl, despite good recruiting.

Do you keep him?

Him is Brian Kelly. And Notre Dame did. And they're now 7-1, with their only loss coming to #2 Georgia.

So...playing devil's advocate here....would you keep Butch if you knew he'd have us in Notre Dame's shoes, ranked top 10 next year, and in CFP contention?

What are the differences between Brian Kelly and Notre Dame and Butch Jones and Tennessee? Obviously, ND isn't in a conference, so those things can't be held the same....but what are the differences?

Just interested in your responses, I am very much on the Fire Butch train.

But you have to think that Notre Dame was saying Fire Kelly last year, and now they're worshipping him again.

What's the difference?

Not only no, but hell freaking no.
 

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