Player Development....who

[whodeycin85]

Who has CJP developed that:
1. Was a highly rated prospect
2. Wasn't a transfer
3. Is a starter or highly used backup

I'm struggling here because other then Carvin (not sure of recruit rank) and Banks, I'm not seeing guys develop...Case in point, we have a secondary that lost Shamburger and no options other then true freshman to step in....IMO for a true freshman to start in the SEC either you have no other options (lack of development or recruiting) or they are exceptional (best case)..

Edit: Carvin was 4 star....i see Flowers wasn't highly ranked, Middleton. And Simmons....

 

[Pacer92]

K. Bennett and Roman Harrison are developing. Not finished products...but coming on.

 

[tennvols77]

Devil's advocate, also relies and depends on the players, as well.

I'll say his ex-players, and many well regarded and respected "football minds" think he is the cream of the crop for defense and defensive player development.

I don't know, I like his story, where he started, and what he has done to get to where he is. The caveat there, the players he had along the way that were able, in tandem, to make him shine. Go to have the Jimmy's and Joe's #1 above all else.

For us, take LB Peterson in his third year, who was highly touted, but, came in late and out of shape, and hasn't barely been seen or heard from........

I can't answer your question, it is valid, and worth an explanation from someone who really can go through and dfefine the roster and play from players over their time span here. There are some here who can do this and hopefully someone will give a thorough opinion on topic.

 

[whodeycin85]

Devil's advocate, also relies and depends on the players, as well.

I'll say his ex-players, and many well regarded and respected "football minds" think he is the cream of the crop for defense and defensive player development.

I don't know, I like his story, where he started, and what he has done to get to where he is. The caveat there, the players he had along the way that were able, in tandem, to make him shine. Go to have the Jimmy's and Joe's #1 above all else.

For us, take LB Peterson in his third year, who was highly touted, but, came in late and out of shape, and hasn't barely been seen or heard from........

I can't answer your question, it is valid, and worth an explanation from someone who really can go through and dfefine the roster and play from players over their time span here. There are some here who can do this and hopefully someone will give a thorough opinion on topic.

Im 100% i think he can develop defensive talent...sadly I think he will end up back as a DC in a few years.....and at his prior schools. 4 and 5 star talent is easier to develop.....but turning coal into a diamond is true coaching.....so prior was it him or his players

 

[tennvols77]

@whodeycin85.....raised in Cinci and currently living here. Sadly as a life long Bungles fan, it at least has made dealing with our Vols the last......well....2 decades bearable as it prepares you for not being too good......Go Vols and Go Bungles (hopefully we don't see Burrow's career over before it began due to being murdered on the field.)

 

[whodeycin85]

K. Bennett and Roman Harrison are developing. Not finished products...but coming on.

Bennett is a good one....Harrison was highly ranked tho...

I like Bennett if he keeps going he will end up a good one....most players make the biggest jump in development from sophomore to JR year....

 

[whodeycin85]

@whodeycin85.....raised in Cinci and currently living here. Sadly as a life long Bungles fan, it at least has made dealing with our Vols the last......well....2 decades bearable as it prepares you for not being too good......Go Vols and Go Bungles (hopefully we don't see Burrow's career over before it began due to being murdered on the field.)

Lived in Cincy for a few years and fell in love with the Bengals...Palmer, Housh...I hear ya...I don't think Taylor will last as HC...i want KCs OC next year to be HC

 

[tennvols77]

Im 100% i think he can develop defensive talent...sadly I think he will end up back as a DC in a few years.....and at his prior schools. 4 and 5 star talent is easier to develop.....but turning coal into a diamond is true coaching.....so prior was it him or his players

Combination.

I think he can and will succeed here. I think he can develop talent, due to track record, but, that track record is what it is with all of the right ingredients to make possible what transpired.

We are bringing in, what look like real players, so, I tend to believe that we will have a very visibly noticeable good product on the field.

To'To' is the example, he is what kind of individual you need to be great. Top recruit, from out of state across country, and it is the entire package.... his attitude, demeanor, commitment, sacrifice, personality, leadership, ability to take care of the important things off the field and staying consistent and on top of his priorities (seemingly I really do not know) that allow him to train and play to be better each day. You need these guys to win at this level. We are getting more of the right guys.

 

[tennvols77]

Lived in Cincy for a few years and fell in love with the Bengals...Palmer, Housh...I hear ya...I don't think Taylor will last as HC...i want KCs OC next year to be HC

Grew up from '77 through 90's....saw the early years and fell in love....then.......came the decade of cellar dwelling prominence into the new millennia.....

Well, we're working hard to get the #1 pick again this year......so.......even this franchise will screw this up.

Coaches are handicapped here, and sadly we are in the wrong division to do anything for a little. Burrow is going to get injured. But, we very well might have the #1 pick again, draft capital or draft Lawrence......oh the infinite possibilities of failure to admire and witness.......

 

[whodeycin85]

Combination.

I think he can and will succeed here. I think he can develop talent, due to track record, but, that track record is what it is with all of the right ingredients to make possible what transpired.

We are bringing in, what look like real players, so, I tend to believe that we will have a very visibly noticeable good product on the field.

To'To' is the example, he is what kind of individual you need to be great. Top recruit, from out of state across country, and it is the entire package.... his attitude, demeanor, commitment, sacrifice, personality, leadership, ability to take care of the important things off the field and staying consistent and on top of his priorities (seemingly I really do not know) that allow him to train and play to be better each day. You need these guys to win at this level. We are getting more of the right guys.

Love Henry!!!!...unless he totally gives control of the offense to his OC and gets one with an updated scheme....I just don't see him sticking....but I do like his recruiting

 

[tennvols77]

Love Henry!!!!...unless he totally gives control of the offense to his OC and gets one with an updated scheme....I just don't see him sticking....but I do like his recruiting

I think he is hands off the O and play calling isn't he......could be wrong. Chaney is just too inconsistent in not being consistent with playing into the flow of the game. He does it and then some games he doesn't. But, I like Chaney. I think he is good enough.

We need to be dominant and big and able to run the ball, and pass it LOL......simple enough.

I think we will have the nasty D needed to win big, so, I agree I think it comes down to the O and what we can do to put up points consistently. Better to have a dynamic play making consistent delivering QB above all else to win. And, the line to block simple enough LOL......

I as of now do trust Pruitt and the staff to give us all what we want, which is to always be in it every year and always be respectable on and off the field. Work in progress in a weird year.

 

[whodeycin85]

I think he is hands off the O and play calling isn't he......could be wrong. Chaney is just too inconsistent in not being consistent with playing into the flow of the game. He does it and then some games he doesn't. But, I like Chaney. I think he is good enough.

We need to be dominant and big and able to run the ball, and pass it LOL......simple enough.

I think we will have the nasty D needed to win big, so, I agree I think it comes down to the O and what we can do to put up points consistently. Better to have a dynamic play making consistent delivering QB above all else to win. And, the line to block simple enough LOL......

I as of now do trust Pruitt and the staff to give us all what we want, which is to always be in it every year and always be respectable on and off the field. Work in progress in a weird year.

I want to believe!!! Last season playcalling threw me tho...we were more aggressive with BM then JG...I think is Chaney was in full control, JG wouldn't be starting...

Also the game today is geared toward offense, that why defense minded coaches don't stick like offense minded coaches...I mean when a wr can push off and not get called but a DB puts a hand on a WR to locate and it PI. Makes it hard to be successful a defense..see Bama. Lol

 

[tennvols77]

I want to believe!!! Last season playcalling threw me tho...we were more aggressive with BM then JG...I think is Chaney was in full control, JG wouldn't be starting...

Also the game today is geared toward offense, that why defense minded coaches don't stick like offense minded coaches...I mean when a wr can push off and not get called but a DB puts a hand on a WR to locate and it PI. Makes it hard to be successful a defense..see Bama. Lol

If true, this is something needing conversation. If we could really have the honest answer it would be interesting.

I have to believe Chaney has input and his final opinion would matter and be considered. But, also, Chaney could be saying play JG....this is why Pruitt is paid the most and makes the call. I have to believe the entire staff has spent many more hours discussing and weighing options and assume they really want to win and will make decisions that allow for that to happen.

So far, regardless of anything, we are 2-1, played horrible against the #3 team in the country, were winning at half time, and lost to who we were supposed to lose to. End result all that matters.

JG will continue or not with his play. We will see the development through the year. Hopefully, it goes well, and we win out, maybe lose to Bama, as we are supposed to, and maybe end up with 2 losses going into floriduh and have a shot at the East title.........maybe not.......got a lot of games to get through. Here's to hoping we have a QB deliver and a team play well and just win.

 

[whodeycin85]

If true, this is something needing conversation. If we could really have the honest answer it would be interesting.

I have to believe Chaney has input and his final opinion would matter and be considered. But, also, Chaney could be saying play JG....this is why Pruitt is paid the most and makes the call. I have to believe the entire staff has spent many more hours discussing and weighing options and assume they really want to win and will make decisions that allow for that to happen.

So far, regardless of anything, we are 2-1, played horrible against the #3 team in the country, were winning at half time, and lost to who we were supposed to lose to. End result all that matters.

JG will continue or not with his play. We will see the development through the year. Hopefully, it goes well, and we win out, maybe lose to Bama, as we are supposed to, and maybe end up with 2 losses going into floriduh and have a shot at the East title.........maybe not.......got a lot of games to get through. Here's to hoping we have a QB deliver and a team play well and just win.

True that...last year i broke it down and if I remeber I think is was 56% running plays with JG and 52% with BM. Not a huge difference but noticeable

 

[dobre_shunka]

Nigel Warrior was a totally different player under Pruitt than he was with Butch.

 

[MurphyVol]

I'll say the same thing about Pruitt I've said about other UT coaches over the years- if you get out recruited you eventually have to out coach people.
Depending on the service you follow, we've had around the 7th best class in the SEC the last two years. Now, I don't think there's a lot of difference between the 7th and the 5th best class, but I think there can be a huge difference in the 1st and 7th best class.

Kirby shows that talent matters. He makes a lot of bonehead decisions, but about 20 years ago a guy named Larry Coker proved its a whole lot easier to out talent than it is to out coach.

I'm not sold yet that JP is going to out coach elite coaches.

 

[whodeycin85]

Nigel Warrior was a totally different player under Pruitt than he was with Butch.

Great example!!!! He was night and day

 

[whodeycin85]

I'll say the same thing about Pruitt I've said about other UT coaches over the years- if you get out recruited you eventually have to out coach people.
Depending on the service you follow, we've had around the 7th best class in the SEC the last two years. Now, I don't think there's a lot of difference between the 7th and the 5th best class, but I think there can be a huge difference in the 1st and 7th best class.

Kirby shows that talent matters. He makes a lot of bonehead decisions, but about 20 years ago a guy named Larry Coker proved its a whole lot easier to out talent than it is to out coach.

I'm not sold yet that JP is going to out coach elite coaches.

Love this statement....
Thats why I was a Kiffin fan....that man went toe to toe with the big 3 with 2 walk on olinemen....he made more with less

 

[1vol8]

If true, this is something needing conversation. If we could really have the honest answer it would be interesting.

I have to believe Chaney has input and his final opinion would matter and be considered. But, also, Chaney could be saying play JG....this is why Pruitt is paid the most and makes the call. I have to believe the entire staff has spent many more hours discussing and weighing options and assume they really want to win and will make decisions that allow for that to happen.

So far, regardless of anything, we are 2-1, played horrible against the #3 team in the country, were winning at half time, and lost to who we were supposed to lose to. End result all that matters.

JG will continue or not with his play. We will see the development through the year. Hopefully, it goes well, and we win out, maybe lose to Bama, as we are supposed to, and maybe end up with 2 losses going into floriduh and have a shot at the East title.........maybe not.......got a lot of games to get through. Here's to hoping we have a QB deliver and a team play well and just win.

This may be true this year but last year I think it’s obvious in his play calling who he trusted the most. There’s definitely something fishy going on behind the scenes and it may be as simple as the back ups catching on that they have no chance under Pruitt as long as JG is there. Maybe Pruitt has already “lost” one or more of those guys as a result.

 

[Sarms58]

Deandre Johnson, Josh Palmer, Shawn Shamburger, Kivon Bennett, Jeremy Banks, Trevon Flowers, Darel Middleton...

 

[VolInDayton]

Bennett is a good one....Harrison was highly ranked tho...

I like Bennett if he keeps going he will end up a good one....most players make the biggest jump in development from sophomore to JR year....

Harrison ended up outside the top 300. He was a camp offer with very few offers when Pruitt offered him. He played DT in high school, so I would consider he's coming along nicely.

Bryce Thompson was ranked about the same as Harrison. I would say BT has out pefromed his ranking.

We need to remeber Pruitt's first full class is in their sophomore year, in a year where there was no spring and a very limited fall. We should continue to see improvement all year in these sophomores and freshman or there is a major problem.

 

[FLVOL_79]

I want to believe!!! Last season playcalling threw me tho...we were more aggressive with BM then JG...I think is Chaney was in full control, JG wouldn't be starting...

Also the game today is geared toward offense, that why defense minded coaches don't stick like offense minded coaches...I mean when a wr can push off and not get called but a DB puts a hand on a WR to locate and it PI. Makes it hard to be successful a defense..see Bama. Lol

The playbook with JG is just a corner of the page of the lamest chapter. Any other QB comes into the game and the UT offense takes on a completely new look and feel.

 

[whodeycin85]

Deandre Johnson, Josh Palmer, Shawn Shamburger, Kivon Bennett, Jeremy Banks, Trevon Flowers, Darel Middleton...

Good list....think any will play on sundays??

 

[savannahfan]

Who has CJP developed that:
1. Was a highly rated prospect
2. Wasn't a transfer
3. Is a starter or highly used backup

I'm struggling here because other then Carvin (not sure of recruit rank) and Banks, I'm not seeing guys develop...Case in point, we have a secondary that lost Shamburger and no options other then true freshman to step in....IMO for a true freshman to start in the SEC either you have no other options (lack of development or recruiting) or they are exceptional (best case)..

Edit: Carvin was 4 star....i see Flowers wasn't highly ranked, Middleton. And Simmons....

How much time is need to develop a player??? The guys he needs to develop have missed a spring and for the most part a fall and I am sure not getting "development time" in this crazy fall playing season. Many of us have said in one way or the other "TIME"!!! The program has missed much of this. The fact that the NCAA or whoever has declarer "this year don't count" sees the problem of lost time.

 

[tbones0711]

Harrison ended up outside the top 300. He was a camp offer with very few offers when Pruitt offered him. He played DT in high school, so I would consider he's coming along nicely.

Bryce Thompson was ranked about the same as Harrison. I would say BT has out pefromed his ranking.

We need to remeber Pruitt's first full class is in their sophomore year, in a year where there was no spring and a very limited fall. We should continue to see improvement all year in these sophomores and freshman or there is a major problem.

Nice evaluation. I'm repeatedly saying in these threads that covid hampered UT more than most schools in our league. It's not intended to be an excuse. I know UF's defense is nowhere near where they've been in the last 5-6 years and LSU has just flat-out regressed badly. I think the SEC has only 2 play-off possibilities currently and the rest of the GOOD TEAMS fall into the 2nd tier status led by UF, TA&M, UT, and Auburn, LSU(?). Tried to put them in order thinking we're about even with Auburn and we'll have to play lights out to hang with UF and A&M.

In response to this thread I feel we're coming along just fine and we desperately need a new QB. CJP has just 2 recruiting classes to develop thus-far and with the covid impact it's difficult for me to judge progress. I want to see K.Lawrence mostly because I feel he'll be a lockdown type of corner. We simply couldn't get enough reps in the spring and summer to make the progress necessary to show that improvement but I feel we are improving even after UGA rained on our parade. That loss will wake us up I hope.