Play calling was not the issue in lack of WR production against UF

[Pride85]

Audible much? Dobbs not able to audible to the quick pass to beat the corner blitz is play calling.

Whether the QB audibles or not is on the QB to actually read the defense. it is a little more difficult to anticipate a corner blitz than it is to be looking right at the blitzing corner and not realize the receiver is wide open. That is completely on Dobbs.

 

[deaconkane]

For whatever reason, most of the complaints have been about the offense, when before the game, we all would agree, or most of us, 27 is enough to beat that Florida team. I admit I was getting frustrated, especially on the last TD drive (I think) when we kept running, and on the scoring play I even said"probably be Hurd up the middle...again", and sure enough, it was, and we scored. I don't make a habit of rewatching games, but I have most of the Okie and Florida games and paid particular attention to the O-line, and sure enough, Dobbs had about 2-3 seconds most of the time before he had to start moving. I also noticed that it seems he is used to that because even on the plays that he was not under pressure, he started moving after 2-3 seconds in the pocket, some times he had the opportunity to simply move up in the pocket and make a throw but didn't. I understand Dobbs relies more on his feet, and his first reaction to pressure is likely going to be to take off . Maybe another year of work and experience he will develop the nack to step up in the pocket and make a throw. I also saw, particularly at Florida, the WR just weren't getting open in the small amount of time Dobbs had. Here is where the coaches need to make adjustments maybe and throw more slants or 8-10 yard routes, and sometimes you gotta throw it out there and let the WR make a play. Im not a coach, obviously, but I think the Coaches coached well enough to win, the players played well enough to win, just like CBJ said in the Monday presser, we make a stop on 4 & 14 and we win the game. You can say that's on the player, or maybe the coach should have played more aggressively on that play...but hindsight is always 20/20. Simple fact, make the stop and we are 3-1. I too question a lot of the coaching decisions, in hindsight maybe we should have went for 2 to make it a 14 point game, the clock management at the end is very questionable, but the bottom line is the coaches put the team in position to win that game, players still gotta go make plays. The other side could say the coaches have to help the players out with making the right call and putting the players in a better position to make plays. I think its a little of both, coaches gotta make better decisions, and players gotta step up and make more plays, especially when the game is on the line. The concern I have, is this is not just OU and UF, we have blown leads against UGA, against USC, Vandy...this team, coaches and players have to learn how to close games out. My personal opinion is that you put on more steam, not get conservative. We have to start playing to win, not play to not lose.

2-3 seconds is a long time with 8 defenders in the box. Problem is you have to have receivers in the area. Ours isnt, and it's the scheme

 

[jimallvol]

In the last few days I've watched the game a couple more times, and to say the play calling was not the issue is mind boggling. A lot of the offensive production during the game was the pocket collapsing and Dobbs just making plays with his legs. We're in year 3 with Butch, and it's really concerning that most of our offense in this game was off trick plays. It's really frustrating seeing how predictable our offense has become. In my opinion, the play calling in the game was pathetic! And as usual Butch and his staff failed to make the proper adjustments on D late in the game. Watching how calm Jim McElwain was late in the game compared to Butch was really disappointing. Another thing I was concerned about is our 2 min offense before the half. We had plenty of time to move the ball to possibly get in position for a shot at a field goal, and all Butch did with the opportunity was to call crap plays to get us into the half. We finally had more talent than Florida did, and Butch still found a way to blow the lead and lose again. It's been really heartbreaking over the years watching us get beat because of talent. But these losses this season in my opinion hurts worse, because we're finally the team with the top talent and we still find a way to lose.

 

[Wilhelm16]

This will probably be a lost cause but let's see if we can keep the discussion on topic for at least a few pages. In-game coaching decisions aside, play calling was actually a bright spot and not the reason for lack of WR production. Here's my take after listening to comments, coaches, players and going back to watch the game (as much as it pained me):

1) First and foremost, NOBODY had an issue with our play calling and gameplan until 4 minutes to go in the 4th. There's no way anyone can honestly say that. It was good enough to give us a 2 score lead with 10 min to go.

2) We owned the ground game and even with that being said we called over 25 passing plays. The reason they didn't produce was mainly OL. UF pass rush got in quick-3 sacks plenty of hurries. That caused Dobbs to either get rid of it quickly, scramble for his life, or abandon the play and run (sometimes a little too soon).

3) We actually threw the ball twice inside the red zone in the 4th with a lead: 10 yard curl completed to WR and the 50/50 ball caught by Von for a TD called back on a penalty. Not bad for aggressive play calling. Hurd eventually ran for the TD.

4) Kerbyson was right when referring to the 16 play 70+ yard drive when he stated we ran the ball 88% of that drive and they couldn't stop it...why would you stray from that.

5) 5 Scoring Drives against a very good D....no need to expand on that

In any case, play calling in that game was, in reality, excellent. It was very successful in fact. Bottom line: if I told you that this was the formula to put you up 2 scores mid way through the 4th in the Swamp to break the streak, why would you argue that considering how successful we were against a very solid D?

Actually I was concerned with the lack of a passing attack, because I knew UF would catch on to the Playcalling. We had learned in the OU game that any amount of time is too much time to be playing it safe with our team. I was als concerned, because I knew there are much better teams left on our schedule who saw our lack of passing game.

 

[TNDRIVER]

Point taken but again the run calls were very successful. The passing to sideline and behind the line is actually Josh hitting the hot routes. There are at least other guys running routes on those plays. It's just what I noticed while watching the tape again. Shows more of a problem with OL not protecting, WR not getting open, or Dobbs not taking any chances. He has other options in most of his pass attempts he just often chooses check downs and hot routes. He's not very good at hitting the second or third options or he doesn't have the time to look for them.

Actually it's receivers catching the ball not letting it go through their hands, that is the biggest problem we have so far. They run a perfect route, Quarterback puts it where it needs to be, the receivers drop the damn ball, players making the impossible possible is what it takes to win games when you're undermanned. But hey,maybe next time Medley kicks the ball he will aim about 4 more feet to the left. He hits that kick all this talk would have never taken place to begin with.

 

[Joe Vols]

Yeah, ok. we owned them? Lol. That team was struggling badly and learned how to win in that game. That coach will win more games than butch in his first year with butch in his 3rd. But hey, keep backing our coach with his poor offensive scheme and blame the players. Kudos, except quit blaming the players. I haven't ever seen players play this hard to win for such a losing coach. Maybe they are playing for themselves.

They are playing hat hard because they respect their coach. Everyone needs to relax.

 

[sjt18]

This will probably be a lost cause but let's see if we can keep the discussion on topic for at least a few pages. In-game coaching decisions aside, play calling was actually a bright spot and not the reason for lack of WR production. Here's my take after listening to comments, coaches, players and going back to watch the game (as much as it pained me):

1) First and foremost, NOBODY had an issue with our play calling and gameplan until 4 minutes to go in the 4th. There's no way anyone can honestly say that. It was good enough to give us a 2 score lead with 10 min to go.

2) We owned the ground game and even with that being said we called over 25 passing plays. The reason they didn't produce was mainly OL. UF pass rush got in quick-3 sacks plenty of hurries. That caused Dobbs to either get rid of it quickly, scramble for his life, or abandon the play and run (sometimes a little too soon).

3) We actually threw the ball twice inside the red zone in the 4th with a lead: 10 yard curl completed to WR and the 50/50 ball caught by Von for a TD called back on a penalty. Not bad for aggressive play calling. Hurd eventually ran for the TD.

4) Kerbyson was right when referring to the 16 play 70+ yard drive when he stated we ran the ball 88% of that drive and they couldn't stop it...why would you stray from that.

5) 5 Scoring Drives against a very good D....no need to expand on that

In any case, play calling in that game was, in reality, excellent. It was very successful in fact. Bottom line: if I told you that this was the formula to put you up 2 scores mid way through the 4th in the Swamp to break the streak, why would you argue that considering how successful we were against a very solid D?

1- The strategy ultimately failed. Hitler's fortress Europe strategy looked as if it was working for the first 4 years of WW2.

2- UT threw 19 times... 17 by Dobbs.

We're now in the 3rd game of the season and UT's staff STILL hasn't figured out how to run a quick passing game to offset a pass rush. And no, it wasn't all on the OL.

3- Better.... but hardly "aggressive".

4- LOL... no they didn't. In that 16 plays UT benefitted from a 5 yard penalty. Dobbs completed two of 3 passes for 39 yards. They rushed 13 times for 26 yds... that's a 2 ypc avg.

They WERE more aggressive early. Not Briles but not as bad as in the 4th qtr when the game was lost.

The playcalling was FAR from excellent. The run game was good but how much better could it have been without beating Hurd up if there had been a passing game to go with it. If you have that much talent at WR then you FIND and MANUFACTURE ways to get the ball to them.

This game should not have been lost... but it very well could have been a 3 or 4 TD win if there had been balance on O. Once again Jones "managed" a game and lost. How many more times does he need to do that before CHANGING?

 

[armchair]

The only reason our offensive was productive against florida was that we ran Dobbs //excessively//. Too much. We're lucky he didn't get hurt in that game. He's a good athlete, and you want to take advantage of that, but you don't keep running him over and over and over again. We're also lucky he didn't fumble in bounds. It was weird play-calling. Teams can always make some hay with a QB who can run--look at Tebow; look at 2001 SEC title game (and others) when we got beat by a backup QB who ran the ball a lot--that and vol turnovers.

 

[ReaderVol]

The only reason our offensive was productive against florida was that we ran Dobbs //excessively//. Too much. We're lucky he didn't get hurt in that game. He's a good athlete, and you want to take advantage of that, but you don't keep running him over and over and over again. We're also lucky he didn't fumble in bounds. It was weird play-calling. Teams can always make some hay with a QB who can run--look at Tebow; look at 2001 SEC title game (and others) when we got beat by a backup QB who ran the ball a lot--that and vol turnovers.

So when the line collapses like it did constantly Dobbs should do what? Take a knee? They rolled him out to buy time and it didn't help much.

 

[TGVol]

So when the line collapses like it did constantly Dobbs should do what?

He should ask Butch why in his third year playing for him the staff has not coached the OL to block better, and why they have not coached him to throw better.

 

[Hank Bukowski]

This will probably be a lost cause but let's see if we can keep the discussion on topic for at least a few pages. In-game coaching decisions aside, play calling was actually a bright spot and not the reason for lack of WR production. Here's my take after listening to comments, coaches, players and going back to watch the game (as much as it pained me):

1) First and foremost, NOBODY had an issue with our play calling and gameplan until 4 minutes to go in the 4th. There's no way anyone can honestly say that. It was good enough to give us a 2 score lead with 10 min to go.

2) We owned the ground game and even with that being said we called over 25 passing plays. The reason they didn't produce was mainly OL. UF pass rush got in quick-3 sacks plenty of hurries. That caused Dobbs to either get rid of it quickly, scramble for his life, or abandon the play and run (sometimes a little too soon).

3) We actually threw the ball twice inside the red zone in the 4th with a lead: 10 yard curl completed to WR and the 50/50 ball caught by Von for a TD called back on a penalty. Not bad for aggressive play calling. Hurd eventually ran for the TD.

4) Kerbyson was right when referring to the 16 play 70+ yard drive when he stated we ran the ball 88% of that drive and they couldn't stop it...why would you stray from that.

5) 5 Scoring Drives against a very good D....no need to expand on that

In any case, play calling in that game was, in reality, excellent. It was very successful in fact. Bottom line: if I told you that this was the formula to put you up 2 scores mid way through the 4th in the Swamp to break the streak, why would you argue that considering how successful we were against a very solid D?

Beg to differ, especially with defensive scheme/playcalling with 10 min left in game. Also, beg to differ on playcalling on critical downs/series with the game on the line...think three straight zone-reads for zero yards, a series in which a first down ... ONE first down ... would probably have won the game for us.

Also, passing the ball more would probably have led to us getting 350 yards rushing. And then there's that little two-point conversion decision...

The zone read is now predictable for every team we face. Man/press our receivers and Dobbs is gonna either hand off to Hurd/Kamara or he's gonna run it himself.

Lord, we need Pig out there running some slants.

 

[VolFootballIsLife]

The only reason our offensive was productive against florida was that we ran Dobbs //excessively//. Too much. We're lucky he didn't get hurt in that game. He's a good athlete, and you want to take advantage of that, but you don't keep running him over and over and over again. We're also lucky he didn't fumble in bounds. It was weird play-calling. Teams can always make some hay with a QB who can run--look at Tebow; look at 2001 SEC title game (and others) when we got beat by a backup QB who ran the ball a lot--that and vol turnovers.

I have 2 questions:

1) What is the appropriate amount of times to run Dobbs? And it's important to note that Dobbs abandoned several passing plays to run for various reasons and we also run a zone read scheme so get used to our QBs running. Remember last year when Worley never kept it and so the offense was putrid?

2) Not sure how referencing Tebow supports your stance. They were pretty damn successful with that to put it mildly.

 

[Ty4Vols]

Whether the QB audibles or not is on the QB to actually read the defense. it is a little more difficult to anticipate a corner blitz than it is to be looking right at the blitzing corner and not realize the receiver is wide open. That is completely on Dobbs.

So a junior QB misses this corner blitz along with his sophomore RB is a more likely scenario than the QB is told not to audible in your eyes?

Florida knew Dobbs would not audible and got so ballsy that they brought the corner blitz right in front of his face and didn't bother to roll a safety to that side of the field.

Sorry but in my experience this is coaching to not change the play not a miss on the QB. And the Florida coaches out coached Butch and his staff.

 

[VOLywood]

Please use your vast knowledge of football to explain to us how in the hell we can throw the ball when our pass protection is so bad the WR don't have time to finish their routes?
You have things to complain about but you don't even realize what they are. Wow

Apparently you missed the part where I said b/c of our OL. Read the whole post next time.

 

[chuck0303]

I am not attacking anyone but 70 yards of rushing came in two plays were dobbs had to make 3 defenders miss each time behind the low. Every one of jalens runs were into the teeth of a 8 man front and he had more yards with people on his back than he did running cleanly. I am not a coach but I do understand that if you don't use the middle of the field in a passing game you will be lucky to win. The play calling is atrocious and it's due to a poor scheme. You beat the blitz with quick passes to the middle. This keeps the oline from having to block for 4-5 seconds. See Bowling green, Oklahoma and Florida during our games. They adapted and went for it. But not us. Not our coach. Worse yet, our receivers have never ran slants, crossing routes and things like that. Now that jones wants to pass everyone will blame the players when we have a rough time of it, but in reality if you never practice these routes it will take the rest of the year to get the timing down to where it should've been in year 1. Crazy man.

Good grief, it wasn't on the chart. lol.

 

[chuck0303]

I do agree with the lack of slants. That is something I would change and word is that they focused on that in practice today. Not sure why it's taken so long.....that's on the coaches (should've implemented that earlier) and would help Dobbs more than likely.

All I'm trying to get across is play calling in this particular game was effective. We will need to find ways to get WR the ball starting this week and would've been helpful against OU. I just think we have issues with OL and more than likely Dobbs isn't the best progression passer. Makes it hard to execute the passing game.

I have to agree that Dobbs is not getting enough time on most passing plays; that's not on him.

 

[BigC]

Point taken but again the run calls were very successful. The passing to sideline and behind the line is actually Josh hitting the hot routes. There are at least other guys running routes on those plays. It's just what I noticed while watching the tape again. Shows more of a problem with OL not protecting, WR not getting open, or Dobbs not taking any chances. He has other options in most of his pass attempts he just often chooses check downs and hot routes. He's not very good at hitting the second or third options or he doesn't have the time to look for them.

Sorry VolFootballsLife...
The football IQ on theses boards are low they can't understand that our OLine can run block pretty good but can not pass block worth a squat...
And sometimes that happens guys can go down hill blocking but when that have a D running down hill at them they have a hard time. And that a offence actually starts up front and the trenches dictate the flow of the game.

 

[Titan&Volfan4life]

Good discussion and some excellent knowledge and points made in this entire thread.

It's good to see some people here on VN having a polite, knowledgable discussion for a change.

OL does run blocking and pass blocking which are 2 totally different things despite what many here may believe.

Run blocking HAS gotten better since DeBord has been helping with that.

Pass blocking is horrid and I'm sure they've been working hard on trying to get that corrected but some guys are simply run blocking maulers and never become good pass blockers no matter what coaches try to teach them and maybe that's our passing problem.

Coaches don't trust our pass blocking and I'm certain Dobbs doesn't trust our pass blocking based on his game play.

Dobbs has very itchy feet and he's become scared because he doesn't trust our pass blocking and when when a pass play IS called by buTch/DeBord, Dobbs takes off running for his life anyway.

I can't blame Dobbs because I would be scared and run for my life too under those circumstances.

OL pass blocking is a serious problem, Dobbs gets no time to set his feet and throw a good pass and our WR's don't get time to even think about running a good deep route and try to get decent separation so we can spread the field and open things up more.

Pass plays ARE being called by buTch/DeBord because they know we must have better balance in our O attacks.

We just can't execute good pass plays because our O line doesn't pass block well enough to give Dobbs and our WR's enough time and the beatings Dobbs has taken these last 2 years has him scared and he runs for his life even when pass plays are called.

Our great 4* and 5* WR's are also a part of the problem in our passing game.

They don't get decent separation most of the time to where Dobbs is confident of throwing a completion rather than a INT or a pick 6 where he knows he'll get all the blame and will get totally roasted here on VN.

There's also been too many dropped balls on the rare occasions that Dobbs does get a decent pass off and that further depletes the confidence level of Dobbs and our coaches.

There is constant communication between all our players and all our coaches the entire game.

QB's tell the OC all game what he sees, which plays he thinks will work based on what he sees happening on the field.

RB's, TE's and WR's do exactly the same things to their position coaches and that info is relayed to buTch and DeBord who make notes and chart what happens when those plays are tried during the game.

All of us are frustrated including our coaches and players because we all know that we're only 2 plays away from being 4-0 right now.

1 good D play to stop Oklahoma from scoring and we Win that game.

1 good D play to stop floriDUHHH from scoring and we Win that game too.

We absolutely MUST get better with our passing game and we MUST get our D better down the stretch when the game is on the line.

Coaches make mistakes and so do players because nobody is perfect and never will be.

It really hurts our coaches, players and our fans much more and makes all of us mad as hell when we know for a fact that we're just 2 good plays away from being undefeated and at 4-0 so far this season.

buTch and staff HAVE made us a better footVol team already and we WILL get much better, especially by next season, and as this season moves forward I expect we'll see even more improvements and more WINS too.

buTch will still finish out his current contract and I'll always support and cheer on my Vols no matter what because better days are coming and I see solid improvement being made with our team.

#BrickbyBrick...VFL...GBO!!!

 

[Volhoops]

Play calling is the issue. What was the difference in our offense between our last series of 3 and out before FL scored the go ahead touchdown and the last 1:25 of the game were we moved the ball downfield?........PLAY CALLING !!!!

 

[papatomany]

You seem to have missed the crossing route that would have been for a first down had Pearson caught the pass. There are way too many drops by our WR corp than should happen.

Didn't miss that one. He short armed it in fear of getting hit. Inexcusable. But... There's also the touchdown catch (that was called back) where Josh trusted him to go get it, threw a bad ball, and Pearson still went and got it. He wouldn't drop a wide-open sideline pass just because he had to jump a few inches. Josh Smith is... well, not very good.

 

[johnrlansford]

You seem to have missed the crossing route that would have been for a first down had Pearson caught the pass. There are way too many drops by our WR corp than should happen.

Way too many dropped passes, the receivers are playing horrible. We are not WRU right now...

 

[johnrlansford]

I have to agree that Dobbs is not getting enough time on most passing plays; that's not on him.

And when he is getting time the receivers are not getting open down field. Z. Azzani and D.Mohoney need to get there acts cleaned up or start looking for a different profession.