Philosophical changes

#1

sofflavol

il kick u in the vols
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#1
After the last 4 days of non stop reading and listening to sports talk radio about the "reason" why Pruitt keeps putting JG out there it occurs to me that most don't realize Pruitt is absolutely content marching JG out there because his coaching philosophy. He basis his entire game plan and program on a conservative pound the rock control the clock style. I guarantee you while we pulling our hair out Saturday night, they got back and had the film breakdown. They probably thought we could have won that game or competed late into the 4th quarter if not for the turnovers by JG , he probably blames those on Oline miscommunications and RBs missing blocks. That's why he looks so flabbergasted when the media questions if we are thinking about making a change. He doesn't want to put in Shrout or BM and have them play a style of football he doesn't want on the field.

The long term problem is this exact coaching style and way of thinking, he is basically taking the Mid 2000s Alabama "blueprint" that same blueprint Harbaugh is trying to also run in Michigan and Kirby is currently running at UGA. Guess what...Those teams CAN NOT get over the hump with one dimensional QBs. The days of the average drop back vanilla mistake free qb are gone, Saban himself had to re-invent his style and recruiting after losing games to Ole miss (chad kelly) Texas AM (Johnny football) and other "play maker/ dual threat" style QBs. Pruitt says JG gives us the best opportunity to win games according to HIS coaching style, unfortunately that is not going to work in the SEC and i don't understand for the life of me why these old-school coaches refuse to recruit "dual threat" type QBs and give them a chance in pro style offenses. Unless you have a Heisman candidate RBs and a NFL caliber defense you will NEVER get over the hump of a SEC title let alone make a college football playoff.

Here's a quick list of QBs that have played in the Playoff ( i start the list there because Saban had to change style after losing games to the likes of Auburn / Ole miss and seeing the new trends in college football)

Marcus Mariota
Cardele Jones
Jameis Winston
Baker Mayfield
Deshaun Watson
Jake Coker
Jalen Hurts
JT Barett
Kelly Bryant
Tua Tongoviloia
Trevor Lawrence
Kyler Murray
Justin Fields
Joe Burrow

The closest comparable playmaker we have had to those QBs is Josh Dobbs. If you put him on this current roster not only do i believe we could have won Saturday but i believe we could be competing for a trip to Atlanta. If Pruitt doesn't understand this moving forward he will not last long term as we cant compete with the "big 3" trotting out "Game Managers" without having top 5 recruiting classes and Heisman trophy candidate RBs.
 
#2
#2
After the last 4 days of non stop reading and listening to sports talk radio about the "reason" why Pruitt keeps putting JG out there it occurs to me that most don't realize Pruitt is absolutely content marching JG out there because his coaching philosophy. He basis his entire game plan and program on a conservative pound the rock control the clock style. I guarantee you while we pulling our hair out Saturday night, they got back and had the film breakdown. They probably thought we could have won that game or competed late into the 4th quarter if not for the turnovers by JG , he probably blames those on Oline miscommunications and RBs missing blocks. That's why he looks so flabbergasted when the media questions if we are thinking about making a change. He doesn't want to put in Shrout or BM and have them play a style of football he doesn't want on the field.

The long term problem is this exact coaching style and way of thinking, he is basically taking the Mid 2000s Alabama "blueprint" that same blueprint Harbaugh is trying to also run in Michigan and Kirby is currently running at UGA. Guess what...Those teams CAN NOT get over the hump with one dimensional QBs. The days of the average drop back vanilla mistake free qb are gone, Saban himself had to re-invent his style and recruiting after losing games to Ole miss (chad kelly) Texas AM (Johnny football) and other "play maker/ dual threat" style QBs. Pruitt says JG gives us the best opportunity to win games according to HIS coaching style, unfortunately that is not going to work in the SEC and i don't understand for the life of me why these old-school coaches refuse to recruit "dual threat" type QBs and give them a chance in pro style offenses. Unless you have a Heisman candidate RBs and a NFL caliber defense you will NEVER get over the hump of a SEC title let alone make a college football playoff.

Here's a quick list of QBs that have played in the Playoff ( i start the list there because Saban had to change style after losing games to the likes of Auburn / Ole miss and seeing the new trends in college football)

Marcus Mariota
Cardele Jones
Jameis Winston
Baker Mayfield
Deshaun Watson
Jake Coker
Jalen Hurts
JT Barett
Kelly Bryant
Tua Tongoviloia
Trevor Lawrence
Kyler Murray
Justin Fields
Joe Burrow

The closest comparable playmaker we have had to those QBs is Josh Dobbs. If you put him on this current roster not only do i believe we could have won Saturday but i believe we could be competing for a trip to Atlanta. If Pruitt doesn't understand this moving forward he will not last long term as we cant compete with the "big 3" trotting out "Game Managers" without having top 5 recruiting classes and Heisman trophy candidate RBs.
did u try sending Pruitt a fax so he knows to change his gameplan??
 
#3
#3
After the last 4 days of non stop reading and listening to sports talk radio about the "reason" why Pruitt keeps putting JG out there it occurs to me that most don't realize Pruitt is absolutely content marching JG out there because his coaching philosophy. He basis his entire game plan and program on a conservative pound the rock control the clock style. I guarantee you while we pulling our hair out Saturday night, they got back and had the film breakdown. They probably thought we could have won that game or competed late into the 4th quarter if not for the turnovers by JG , he probably blames those on Oline miscommunications and RBs missing blocks. That's why he looks so flabbergasted when the media questions if we are thinking about making a change. He doesn't want to put in Shrout or BM and have them play a style of football he doesn't want on the field.

The long term problem is this exact coaching style and way of thinking, he is basically taking the Mid 2000s Alabama "blueprint" that same blueprint Harbaugh is trying to also run in Michigan and Kirby is currently running at UGA. Guess what...Those teams CAN NOT get over the hump with one dimensional QBs. The days of the average drop back vanilla mistake free qb are gone, Saban himself had to re-invent his style and recruiting after losing games to Ole miss (chad kelly) Texas AM (Johnny football) and other "play maker/ dual threat" style QBs. Pruitt says JG gives us the best opportunity to win games according to HIS coaching style, unfortunately that is not going to work in the SEC and i don't understand for the life of me why these old-school coaches refuse to recruit "dual threat" type QBs and give them a chance in pro style offenses. Unless you have a Heisman candidate RBs and a NFL caliber defense you will NEVER get over the hump of a SEC title let alone make a college football playoff.

Here's a quick list of QBs that have played in the Playoff ( i start the list there because Saban had to change style after losing games to the likes of Auburn / Ole miss and seeing the new trends in college football)

Marcus Mariota
Cardele Jones
Jameis Winston
Baker Mayfield
Deshaun Watson
Jake Coker
Jalen Hurts
JT Barett
Kelly Bryant
Tua Tongoviloia
Trevor Lawrence
Kyler Murray
Justin Fields
Joe Burrow

The closest comparable playmaker we have had to those QBs is Josh Dobbs. If you put him on this current roster not only do i believe we could have won Saturday but i believe we could be competing for a trip to Atlanta. If Pruitt doesn't understand this moving forward he will not last long term as we cant compete with the "big 3" trotting out "Game Managers" without having top 5 recruiting classes and Heisman trophy candidate RBs.

Agreed but we have a history with this. First we ran the single wing almost a decade longer than most schools. We had Johnny Ball while others installed the flex bone. More recently we had that perfect QB with Peyton and we still couldn’t keep up with a team with a wide open offense. We got a mobile QB the next year and won it all. If we wouldn’t have had Dobbs we have three more losing seasons. Here we are again. Teams are putting 40+ points on Bama and losing! I’d love to see 40+ points this week.
 
#4
#4
More and more NFL teams have gone to more mobile QBs....10 years ago they wouldn't have considered it for the most part.

You can have a QB that's not considered a running QB but has the ability to run to get out of a bad play....extend plays...move the chains. A mobile QB is very hard to defend.
 
#6
#6
After the last 4 days of non stop reading and listening to sports talk radio about the "reason" why Pruitt keeps putting JG out there it occurs to me that most don't realize Pruitt is absolutely content marching JG out there because his coaching philosophy. He basis his entire game plan and program on a conservative pound the rock control the clock style..
This not true. Pruitt's ideal offense is a big play explosive offense that takes care of the football, he likes chunk yardage. The idea is the more offensive plays on a drive the more chances for the defense to make a play. He has as similar view of defense He takes chances to create big plays.
 
#7
#7
More and more NFL teams have gone to more mobile QBs....10 years ago they wouldn't have considered it for the most part.

You can have a QB that's not considered a running QB but has the ability to run to get out of a bad play....extend plays...move the chains. A mobile QB is very hard to defend.

The Bennett kid for UGA is a perfect example of this. He’s not a running QB, but he moves well enough to burn you.
 
#8
#8
I believe JG was a top dual threat QB when he was recruited to UT, not that Pruitt did the recruiting. We can only sit on the outside an speculate what we think coach Pruitt is doing on the inside.

I will give you another side of this. Don't you think Pruitt sits down in Phil Fulmer office weekly to talk about the direction Pruitt is taking this team? Phil ran the same smash mouth offense and stout D, that was his style. Who could Phil not beat? That's right Steve Spurrier who ran a wide open offense. Phil has had many years to reflect on why he was pushed out as head ball coach and if he is as smart as I think he is then he knows the direction football is headed. I believe Pruitt wants a big physical team with big running backs, he said as much when he got here. He has the OL on the upward swing with all of the 5* talent there now he has to start pulling in the 5* backs and WR. Now don't get me wrong I am no star gazer but the proof that 5* talent more times than not makes it to the NFL over 2* talent cannot be dismissed. The question is in the class of 2022-2023 will Pruitt be recruiting a running QB? We already know what the class of 2021 is (if they all sign). I do not know the answer as to who/what type of player they will be after but I think Pruitt is smart enough to change his philosophy if the right QB is in the mix for TN.
 
#9
#9
I believe JG was a top dual threat QB when he was recruited to UT, not that Pruitt did the recruiting. We can only sit on the outside an speculate what we think coach Pruitt is doing on the inside.

I will give you another side of this. Don't you think Pruitt sits down in Phil Fulmer office weekly to talk about the direction Pruitt is taking this team? Phil ran the same smash mouth offense and stout D, that was his style. Who could Phil not beat? That's right Steve Spurrier who ran a wide open offense. Phil has had many years to reflect on why he was pushed out as head ball coach and if he is as smart as I think he is then he knows the direction football is headed. I believe Pruitt wants a big physical team with big running backs, he said as much when he got here. He has the OL on the upward swing with all of the 5* talent there now he has to start pulling in the 5* backs and WR. Now don't get me wrong I am no star gazer but the proof that 5* talent more times than not makes it to the NFL over 2* talent cannot be dismissed. The question is in the class of 2022-2023 will Pruitt be recruiting a running QB? We already know what the class of 2021 is (if they all sign). I do not know the answer as to who/what type of player they will be after but I think Pruitt is smart enough to change his philosophy if the right QB is in the mix for TN.

I don’t think they need to be a “running “ qb , but they need to be mobile enough to make plays and a game changer that can take over a game. Remember in the end in 11 on 11 and sometimes the difference between average teams and elite teams the QB can make up for the faults other offense players make.
 
#10
#10
From what I've heard on the Swain event it sounds like a mobile qb is what this staff really wants. HB was already committed here when pruitt hired Chaney. Chaney tried to bring in another more mobile qb in the class with HB. And they have a mobile qb commit in Salter in the 2021 class.
 
#11
#11
After the last 4 days of non stop reading and listening to sports talk radio about the "reason" why Pruitt keeps putting JG out there it occurs to me that most don't realize Pruitt is absolutely content marching JG out there because his coaching philosophy. He basis his entire game plan and program on a conservative pound the rock control the clock style. I guarantee you while we pulling our hair out Saturday night, they got back and had the film breakdown. They probably thought we could have won that game or competed late into the 4th quarter if not for the turnovers by JG , he probably blames those on Oline miscommunications and RBs missing blocks. That's why he looks so flabbergasted when the media questions if we are thinking about making a change. He doesn't want to put in Shrout or BM and have them play a style of football he doesn't want on the field.

The long term problem is this exact coaching style and way of thinking, he is basically taking the Mid 2000s Alabama "blueprint" that same blueprint Harbaugh is trying to also run in Michigan and Kirby is currently running at UGA. Guess what...Those teams CAN NOT get over the hump with one dimensional QBs. The days of the average drop back vanilla mistake free qb are gone, Saban himself had to re-invent his style and recruiting after losing games to Ole miss (chad kelly) Texas AM (Johnny football) and other "play maker/ dual threat" style QBs. Pruitt says JG gives us the best opportunity to win games according to HIS coaching style, unfortunately that is not going to work in the SEC and i don't understand for the life of me why these old-school coaches refuse to recruit "dual threat" type QBs and give them a chance in pro style offenses. Unless you have a Heisman candidate RBs and a NFL caliber defense you will NEVER get over the hump of a SEC title let alone make a college football playoff.

Here's a quick list of QBs that have played in the Playoff ( i start the list there because Saban had to change style after losing games to the likes of Auburn / Ole miss and seeing the new trends in college football)

Marcus Mariota
Cardele Jones
Jameis Winston
Baker Mayfield
Deshaun Watson
Jake Coker
Jalen Hurts
JT Barett
Kelly Bryant
Tua Tongoviloia
Trevor Lawrence
Kyler Murray
Justin Fields
Joe Burrow

The closest comparable playmaker we have had to those QBs is Josh Dobbs. If you put him on this current roster not only do i believe we could have won Saturday but i believe we could be competing for a trip to Atlanta. If Pruitt doesn't understand this moving forward he will not last long term as we cant compete with the "big 3" trotting out "Game Managers" without having top 5 recruiting classes and Heisman trophy candidate RBs.

Pruitt has a commitment from Kaidon Salter in this current class, a dual threat QB, so I disagree with your notion that he is just a '3 yards and a cloud of dust' type HC. And I don't understand this notion that Pruitt sticks with JG because he is content with just pounding the rock down field, because 1) we have been throwing deep a lot so far this season, something they didn't seem to trust JG to do very often last season, and 2) when he pulled JG after the UF game last season, he went with Maurer over Shrout, even though Shrout had been in the system for a year, because he said Maurer brought the running element to the QB position.

Pruitt is starting the QB who he thinks gives us the best chance of winning right now. If he thought that was Shrout, or Maurer, or Bailey, then one of them would be starting. It's up to one of those QBs to earn the spot.
 
#12
#12
Agreed but we have a history with this. First we ran the single wing almost a decade longer than most schools. We had Johnny Ball while others installed the flex bone. More recently we had that perfect QB with Peyton and we still couldn’t keep up with a team with a wide open offense. We got a mobile QB the next year and won it all. If we wouldn’t have had Dobbs we have three more losing seasons. Here we are again. Teams are putting 40+ points on Bama and losing! I’d love to see 40+ points this week.
Tee Martin was not that mobile of a QB, that's a myth....Dobbs I agree with you and the single wing issue I agree with you.
 
#15
#15
Tee had the ability to get out of bad situations and he did it several times.....I watched the SECCG the year we won the NC a few weeks ago and had forgotten how bad a passing game Tee had in that game....But he kept the chains moving a lot with his legs in that game.
 
#16
#16
I read all of this and it just drives me crazy. I remember that JG was recruited as a top dual-threat QB, but if the kid could run, he would have been running for his life on Saturday. He didn't. He sat back there and let the pocket collapse on him while he stared down covered receivers. He can throw the ball just fine - I don't believe that is his issue. I believe his issue is his decision making in crucial situations. He appears to go into some kind of sensory overload and makes poor decisions - over and over again. Its like he freaks out and can't figure out what to do. Not just in tough situations, but in good ones too. He sees a wide open receiver and throws the ball 10 feet over his head. Why is that?

I watched Saturday's game really surprised at how he played in the first half, and was really pumped at the goal-line stand to end the half with a lead. I was keyed up when we got the second half kickoff - OH CRAP. He got sacked and he didn't see it coming and got the ball stripped - OK, that happens. We hold-em to a field goal. I'm thinking that better ball security wouldn't hurt either. We get the ball and WHAT THE HECK IS HE DOING! Blame the O-Line if you want, but they didn't make the decision to toss the ball up for grabs - he did. That was a bad decision, and one that a FIFTH YEAR SENIOR cannot make - Pruitt said so himself on the Jeremy Pruitt Show. Once again the defense holds them to a field goal. After a 3-and-out and the third turnover of the half, I decided to just open another beer. Same old same old JG making bad decisions again.

He repeatedly overthrows wide-open receivers, yet he can drop a dime over a covered one streaking down the sideline. He can make the check down to dump a pass to a RB when he is pressured, but he can't recognize the unblocked LB blitzing from the slot when he is lined up in the shotgun with an empty backfield. I just don't understand him or the coaches that play him. He must be lights-out in practice.
 
#17
#17
We can all talk about this until we are blue in the face... take a long look at that list I posted...it’s facts ...since the CFP there hasn’t been a single “average” or game manager type qb to make it to the title game ...if you don’t have a STUD qb in this day and age you are not competing for ships period. Again , I didn’t say they have to be dual threat or speedsters but they have to be the best player on the field and command respect from the defense..that list has several dudes under 6ft tall ..that was unheard of a decade ago.
 
#18
#18
Pruitt has a commitment from Kaidon Salter in this current class, a dual threat QB, so I disagree with your notion that he is just a '3 yards and a cloud of dust' type HC. And I don't understand this notion that Pruitt sticks with JG because he is content with just pounding the rock down field, because 1) we have been throwing deep a lot so far this season, something they didn't seem to trust JG to do very often last season, and 2) when he pulled JG after the UF game last season, he went with Maurer over Shrout, even though Shrout had been in the system for a year, because he said Maurer brought the running element to the QB position.

Pruitt is starting the QB who he thinks gives us the best chance of winning right now. If he thought that was Shrout, or Maurer, or Bailey, then one of them would be starting. It's up to one of those QBs to earn the spot.
Absurd that more people don't realize this. Whether we disagree with Pruitt is another question, but he is not starting JG because of a "system".
 
#19
#19
Absurd that more people don't realize this. Whether we disagree with Pruitt is another question, but he is not starting JG because of a "system".
I agree. The real mystery is why in his third season, we still don’t have a QB to fit what we seem to be looking for, even on a temporary basis. Why is JG the top candidate after three recruiting cycles (first one truncated of course)?
 
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#20
#20
Absurd that more people don't realize this. Whether we disagree with Pruitt is another question, but he is not starting JG because of a "system".

It’s not the system it’s the philosophy. He plays because he knows the offense the best , probably communicates the best and typically doesn’t turn the ball over. The problem is apparently shrout and BM can’t overtake JG because if It was about pure talent I don’t know who would be starting.
 
#21
#21
OP said teams like UGA "CAN NOT get over the hump" because of their offensive play style.

Over the hump? We are just trying to get to a point where we win the games we're supposed to win! Let's worry about getting TO the hump before we worry about getting OVER the hump.

That being said... I do not think a team with Tennessee's talent can beat a team with Georgia/Alabama's talent with a one dimensional quarterback AND I don't think Jeremy Pruitt believes that either. In each of the past 2 classes Pruitt has signed a mobile QB and we've got another one committed for 2020. Does that indicate to you that Pruitt is seeking an "average drop back vanilla" quarterback?

Also, I philosophically disagree with your hot take. Let's revisit this thread after the Georgia vs Alabama game this weekend...
 
#22
#22
OP said teams like UGA "CAN NOT get over the hump" because of their offensive play style.

Over the hump? We are just trying to get to a point where we win the games we're supposed to win! Let's worry about getting TO the hump before we worry about getting OVER the hump.

That being said... I do not think a team with Tennessee's talent can beat a team with Georgia/Alabama's talent with a one dimensional quarterback AND I don't think Jeremy Pruitt believes that either. In each of the past 2 classes Pruitt has signed a mobile QB and we've got another one committed for 2020. Does that indicate to you that Pruitt is seeking an "average drop back vanilla" quarterback?

Also, I philosophically disagree with your hot take. Let's revisit this thread after the Georgia vs Alabama game this weekend...[/QUOTE

What would that game indicate? Both of those teams have QBs that are more playmaker type qbs than our current starter...and again if he is looking for a mobile qb why isn’t BM getting playing time? Either A...he is a 3star that can’t cut it at the elite level (which the SEC is) or B...he hasn’t been developed enough to play yet...which is another indictment of the coaching staff
.

You can’t find a game manager champion in the playoff cuz there isn’t one...Georgia had Fromm Jacob Eason and Arron Murray...with great sec teams around them and excellent RBs that have been pro bowl level talent...they lost...Michigan has tried the same...qbs that don’t blow you away and great defense and run game...I truly hope Pruitt is trying to find a more mobile qb that is a game changer cuz If he’s not we won’t be competing for championships let alone be in any big games anytime soon
 
#23
#23
I agree. The real mystery is why in his third season, we still don’t have a QB to fit what we seem to be looking for, even on a temporary basis. Why is JG the top candidate after three recruiting cycles (first one truncated of course)?
First one was truncated because he was hired so late and the third one was truncated because of Covid and contact tracing. My only complaint is not going all in on Sam Howell last year when he showed interest.
 
#24
#24
We can all talk about this until we are blue in the face... take a long look at that list I posted...it’s facts ...since the CFP there hasn’t been a single “average” or game manager type qb to make it to the title game ...if you don’t have a STUD qb in this day and age you are not competing for ships period. Again , I didn’t say they have to be dual threat or speedsters but they have to be the best player on the field and command respect from the defense..that list has several dudes under 6ft tall ..that was unheard of a decade ago.

Bama has won NCs without their QB being anywhere close to the 'best' player on the field. Those QBs simply knew how to get the offense in the right alignments based on what they saw on defense, could get the ball to the best players on offense, and limited their mistakes/TOs.

I will agree with you that JG is not a QB who is a playoff contending QB, or likely could even win an SECC. But he is the best developed we got right now. We were all hoping that Bailey would compete this season, or at least Maurer or Shrout could. Unfortunately, covid put a serious dent in QB development in the offseason. No spring ball, which really crippled HB's development, and that was further complicated by his having to quarantine the first part of fall camp. Maurer missed a good bit of fall with a hamstring, furthering the worry that he is injury prone; Shrout seemingly had the best shot. The reasons he was pulled last season was his inability to read coverages he was seeing as well as putting the offense in the proper alignments based on what the defense was doing, so he certainly needed to spend a lot of time in the film room during the offseason. Some of the reports out of fall camp seemed positve for him, saying he was the clear #2, but I don't know where he is with his understanding at this point, but staff didn't trot him out there last Saturday, not that it would have mattered other than someone else would have been getting hammered by the UGA rush.
 
#25
#25
Bama has won NCs without their QB being anywhere close to the 'best' player on the field. Those QBs simply knew how to get the offense in the right alignments based on what they saw on defense, could get the ball to the best players on offense, and limited their mistakes/TOs.

I will agree with you that JG is not a QB who is a playoff contending QB, or likely could even win an SECC. But he is the best developed we got right now. We were all hoping that Bailey would compete this season, or at least Maurer or Shrout could. Unfortunately, covid put a serious dent in QB development in the offseason. No spring ball, which really crippled HB's development, and that was further complicated by his having to quarantine the first part of fall camp. Maurer missed a good bit of fall with a hamstring, furthering the worry that he is injury prone; Shrout seemingly had the best shot. The reasons he was pulled last season was his inability to read coverages he was seeing as well as putting the offense in the proper alignments based on what the defense was doing, so he certainly needed to spend a lot of time in the film room during the offseason. Some of the reports out of fall camp seemed positve for him, saying he was the clear #2, but I don't know where he is with his understanding at this point, but staff didn't trot him out there last Saturday, not that it would have mattered other than someone else would have been getting hammered by the UGA rush.

Since the creation of the CFP Bama has had 3 qbs ...Coker was not the best player on the field that is correct..but he was a playmaker that could use his feet if he needed to and make great plays. Hurts was an absolute animal the year they went and let’s not forget he transferred to Oklahoma and got all the way back to the title...then the most recent is Tua who before getting injured was being compared to Russell Wilson and had one the best college careers of all time.. Saban changed philosophy on offense and it’s clear as day...they no longer depend on having the best defense on the field with 2 rbs just pounding away..they stretch the field and move the ball. I might be the only person that doesn’t like the “beef” package we run not on the goal line , I think it’s absurd to put all those lineman in the box to bring 9 defenders in the box with a non threatening qb..we should be running more 4 wide sets 1 rb and get JG more options if anything else.
 
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