PGA - LIV Merger: The Saudis Win

#2
#2
From a sporting perspective, I don't care about golf, but this makes me worried for soccer.

From a political perspective, it's part of a concerning trend.
 
#4
#4
They're throwing around outrageous contracts for soccer players. Right now it's for old players to play in the Saudi league. This isn't as big a threat, because the league is still very low quality and I don't see many players enjoying life in Saudi Arabia. But their clear determination to throw money around until they get their way is worrying to me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: McDad
#5
#5
They're throwing around outrageous contracts for soccer players. Right now it's for old players to play in the Saudi league. This isn't as big a threat, because the league is still very low quality and I don't see many players enjoying life in Saudi Arabia. But their clear determination to throw money around until they get their way is worrying to me.
I don't follow soccer so forgive if this is a stupid question....Is the sport harmed by the approach of the Saudi League in some way?

Or is your concern related to the cultural and governmental atrocities which were also referenced in OP's article?
 
#6
#6
I don't follow soccer so forgive if this is a stupid question....Is the sport harmed by the approach of the Saudi League in some way?
Not yet. It's not so much the Saudi league as much as their determination to increase their influence over the game. I didn't bring up the previously proposed "super league" (which, to be fair, had nothing to do with Saudi Arabia and was actually driven by American owners and investment) since it will probably be difficult to explain to people who don't follow the sport, but I could see them trying to resurrect that idea on their terms.

Or is your concern related to the cultural and governmental atrocities which were also referenced in OP's article?
Sportswashing definitely concerns me from a political point of view. But I have selfish sporting concerns as well.
 
#8
#8
Not yet. It's not so much the Saudi league as much as their determination to increase their influence over the game. I didn't bring up the previously proposed "super league" (which, to be fair, had nothing to do with Saudi Arabia and was actually driven by American owners and investment) since it will probably be difficult to explain to people who don't follow the sport, but I could see them trying to resurrect that idea on their terms.


Sportswashing definitely concerns me from a political point of view. But I have selfish sporting concerns as well.
Thanks. On more question, how does Saudi influence over the game affect the sport negatively?
 
#9
#9
Tiger turned down almost 800 million to stay with the PGA, and they sold out less than a year later.

worse for the mid tier guys aren't already billionaires - they turned down life changing money and now they will watch the guys who took the money come right back into the tour.

it was a hostile takeover of a different form - the PGA picked a fight they couldn't win and got beat down
 
#10
#10
Thanks. On more question, how does Saudi influence over the game affect the sport negatively?

I think any single controlling entity can affect the sport negatively. This one just also happens to have the baggage of a pretty bad human rights record but the consolidation of power is the bigger problem.
 
  • Like
Reactions: flint and McDad
#11
#11
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/06/07/gol...for-the-saudis-americans-are-slamming-it.html

May be a good thing in the end but the PGA looks like preening, self-important schmucks for all there "sportswashing" PR.

Wonder if Biden will shut it down given his pledge to ostracize and isolate the Saudis - seems they keep getting the wins.
Yep, all that posturing meant squat. It’s like everything else in this world. Money talks and BS (in this case “sports washing”) walks. The PGA Tour wasn’t going to survive the lawsuits and they (and the sponsors) weren’t going to be able to afford continually increasing the purses to keep up with the Saudi money. The Saudi’s will now fund that. I don’t like it but it is what it is.

What may be interesting is that a lot of the LIV golfers also joined that tour so they could play a reduced schedule. Don’t know how this merger will affect that.
 
#12
#12
Thanks. On more question, how does Saudi influence over the game affect the sport negatively?
It may be easier to explain using Qatar and the UAE.

About 15 years ago, the UAE bought Manchester City. They went from basically being nothing to establishing themselves as a dominant force in the English Premier League (the world's best league) and are almost certainly the best side in the world. That itself isn't the worst, as the EPL is still good, and financial regulations prevent them from completely obliterating everyone (though they aggressively look for ways to get around these rules, and are currently facing 115 charges of violating them). Before the UAE takeover, Manchester City had not won the English title since 1968. They have now won 7 in the last 12 seasons, and 5 in the last 6.

But a better example is Qatar. They bought Paris Saint-Germain in 2011. Prior to this, PSG only had 2 French titles ever, the last in 1994, and the French league was arguably the league with the most parity of the major leagues. Since then, PSG has gone on a run where they have won 9 titles in 11 seasons. They turned the league with the most parity (and which probably produces more elite players than any other country in the world) into unwatchable, uninteresting garbage. They also bought a lot of the television rights for French (and European) soccer. They are now also trying to buy Manchester United (arguably the world's most popular and expensive club). Qatar also bribed their way into hosting the 2022 World Cup (possibly the greatest sportswashing feat we have seen yet).

Recently, the Saudi's bought Newcastle. They are not yet the best team, but their turnaround has been dramatic, and it stands to reason they are only going to continue to improve rapidly. But what is more concerning than changing the fortunes of one club is the clear trend of declining competitiveness. We are quickly heading in a direction where your best chance at winning titles is basically hoping you're purchased by a petro-monarchy.

Of course, Saudi Arabia has much more money than UAE and Qatar, and they seem intent on throwing the money around and increasing their control over the sport. It's hard not to see how it could continue to increase their leverage over players and decision makers.
 
  • Like
Reactions: McDad
#13
#13
Yep, all that posturing meant squat. It’s like everything else in this world. Money talks and BS (in this case “sports washing”) walks. The PGA Tour wasn’t going to survive the lawsuits and they (and the sponsors) weren’t going to be able to afford continually increasing the purses to keep up with the Saudi money. The Saudi’s will now fund that. I don’t like it but it is what it is.

What may be interesting is that a lot of the LIV golfers also joined that tour so they could play a reduced schedule. Don’t know how this merger will affect that.

Interestingly, the PGA went the other way so that mid level tournaments would have a high power enough field to satisfy sponsors. The drew push back from the players who have to be hella mad now.
 
#14
#14
This was always going to happen, it was just a matter of when. The PGA tour couldn’t really afford to pay for the lengthy, lengthy billable hours their attorneys would be spending on a long drawn out legal battle, plus I feel certain that the tour brass do not want a whole lot of things found in discovery. There was always going to be a rival tour come along and I’m surprised it has taken this long. I don’t think it will harm the game at all, probably be better in most ways. As is with almost everything, if the politics are left out of it, the game will be fine and flourish.
 
#15
#15
I think any single controlling entity can affect the sport negatively. This one just also happens to have the baggage of a pretty bad human rights record but the consolidation of power is the bigger problem.
How are leagues managed where there are individual athletes rather than teams? Tennis, bowling, track and field, etc. Are those controlled by a single entity?
 
#16
#16
It may be easier to explain using Qatar and the UAE.

About 15 years ago, the UAE bought Manchester City. They went from basically being nothing to establishing themselves as a dominant force in the English Premier League (the world's best league) and are almost certainly the best side in the world. That itself isn't the worst, as the EPL is still good, and financial regulations prevent them from completely obliterating everyone (though they aggressively look for ways to get around these rules, and are currently facing 115 charges of violating them). Before the UAE takeover, Manchester City had not won the English title since 1968. They have now won 7 in the last 12 seasons, and 5 in the last 6.

But a better example is Qatar. They bought Paris Saint-Germain in 2011. Prior to this, PSG only had 2 French titles ever, the last in 1994, and the French league was arguably the league with the most parity of the major leagues. Since then, PSG has gone on a run where they have won 9 titles in 11 seasons. They turned the league with the most parity (and which probably produces more elite players than any other country in the world) into unwatchable, uninteresting garbage. They also bought a lot of the television rights for French (and European) soccer. They are now also trying to buy Manchester United (arguably the world's most popular and expensive club). Qatar also bribed their way into hosting the 2022 World Cup (possibly the greatest sportswashing feat we have seen yet).

Recently, the Saudi's bought Newcastle. They are not yet the best team, but their turnaround has been dramatic, and it stands to reason they are only going to continue to improve rapidly. But what is more concerning than changing the fortunes of one club is the clear trend of declining competitiveness. We are quickly heading in a direction where your best chance at winning titles is basically hoping you're purchased by a petro-monarchy.

Of course, Saudi Arabia has much more money than UAE and Qatar, and they seem intent on throwing the money around and increasing their control over the sport. It's hard not to see how it could continue to increase their leverage over players and decision makers.
understood. Thanks.
 
#17
#17
It's a matter of time before PIF comes after a major North American professional sports franchise. That will be interesting to see.
 
  • Like
Reactions: volinbham
#18
#18
How are leagues managed where there are individual athletes rather than teams? Tennis, bowling, track and field, etc. Are those controlled by a single entity?

Not a full answer but the PGA determines who can play (qualification rules), how many can be a member, what events are sanctioned, the rules of play, the # of events one has to play, how prize money is divvied up, likely has some role in sponsorship (individual and event) approval.

Same for DP World Tour, same for LIV. Now they will be somehow joined under one ruling entity which ostensibly will have to determine how much power resides within a league (PGA) vs how much is held by the new entity.
 
  • Like
Reactions: McDad
#20
#20
It's a matter of time before PIF comes after a major North American professional sports franchise. That will be interesting to see.

Other than maybe basketball I don't see it. Baseball and Football are virtually nonexistent in the ME and Europe so what would be the reason.
 
  • Like
Reactions: tvolsfan
#21
#21
One upside is that the second season of Full Swing (golf documentary on Netflix) is in production. They tweeted "you better believe we were filming when this broke". Will be interesting. It's a great show.

That's a good show, can't wait for the next season.
 
  • Like
Reactions: clarksvol00
#22
#22
Other than maybe basketball I don't see it. Baseball and Football are virtually nonexistent in the ME and Europe so what would be the reason.
They have a vested interest in changing their reputation here too, maybe even more so than changing it in Europe. I could see them trying to get an MLB team and paying massive luxury tax penalties every year; kind of like what the Padres are doing and Dodgers/Yankees have done in the past, but on steroids.

It would be harder for them to dominate in the NBA/NFL/NHL because of salary caps.
 
#23
#23
If it's true that LIV is going away, then this just looks like a way for the Saudis to buy an entire professional sport. Start a competing sport, buy off as many of the best players as possible, get tied up in lawsuits with other leagues, and force a concession due to infinite money availability that the other side doesn't have.

Rory McIlroy said he's resigned to the fact that the PGA Tour will have to accept money from Saudi Arabia's Public Investment Fund, but he's satisfied that the LIV Golf League won't be part of the alliance.

Speaking to reporters ahead of this week's RBC Canadian Open at Oakdale Golf and Country Club, McIlroy said Wednesday that he believes the LIV Golf League is going away after this season.

"I still hate LIV," McIlroy said. "Like, I hate LIV. I hope it goes away, and I would fully expect that it does. I think that's where the distinction here is. This is the PGA Tour, the DP World Tour and the PIF -- very different from LIV."

Rory: Feel like 'sacrificial lamb' and 'still hate LIV'
 
#24
#24
Boy all those tour players who said the LIV transfers were dead to them have some really awkward and completely earned moments coming their way. Hilarious as hell
 
  • Like
Reactions: Weezy and KptVFL
#25
#25
If it's true that LIV is going away, then this just looks like a way for the Saudis to buy an entire professional sport. Start a competing sport, buy off as many of the best players as possible, get tied up in lawsuits with other leagues, and force a concession due to infinite money availability that the other side doesn't have.



Rory: Feel like 'sacrificial lamb' and 'still hate LIV'

Some of LIV will creep in I'm betting - the team stuff will be incorporated somehow in some form. The 54 hole thing likely not (the origin of the name LIV for those that don't know - roman numerals) but I could see it being replaced with some type of exhibition tour of 36 holes or 54 with no cuts (like LIV now) that pays big $ to big names.
 

VN Store



Back
Top