PFF: Dobbs 6th Best QB At Running In The Country

[tonybologna]

The only thing that I said was that you were contradicting yourself, in one statement you say "Watson seems to have the better arm & accuracy but not by much. , then the next statement you said "7% completion % is a great deal bigger than Dobbs by Watson".

That my friend is a contradiction.

And to top it off you go back and state "I'm not contradicting myself. I said Watson beat Dobbs by 7% completion %. That's not a great number in college football".

This is why I said that you lose credibility, as warped as D4H's thinking is, at least he is consistent. If you are going to state it, at least own it.

Since you're name is NasaVol will you please go to outer space with NASA?

 

[ajvol01]

That run Dobbs made in the OP shows he is a special talent. Crazy we got no points from that... (Hurd Fumble).

-7

 

[KBVol]

7% completion % is a great deal bigger than Dobbs by Watson. Keep in mind also that Dobbs had several dropped passes & most were by Josh Malone & Preston Williams. Ethan Wolf even had a couple himself. So don't blame all of these inaccuracies and/or completion %'s on Dobbs himself.

Is Watson a better overall QB? I believe I did say that didn't I? So, what are you talking about in credibility circumstances? The evidence points to it being not by much either. If that's the problem with my statement that's ridiculous!

Yes, Watson was a Heisman finalist. Dobbs didn't have the players or media behind him like he does now. I wouldn't be surprised at all for Dobbs to be a Heisman finalist this coming season.



Like I said above Watson coming into the 2016 season is the better QB. Why are you even bringing me into the conversation about who's the better QB? I never stated in any posts that Dobbs was better except as a running QB.

D4H is the one I believe you need to take up on trying to start an argument/disagreement on this particular category because I NEVER made such a comment/post that Dobbs was the better overall QB. Thanks!

Because a completion % of nearly 68% is outstanding and worlds better than a completion % of nearly 60% which is pedestrian. Especially when the guy completing the higher percentage threw 150 more passes and averaged nearly 2 more yards per attempt. That's why I responded to your post......because I thought it was factually incorrect and felt the need to point out the differences.

Put another way...if Dobbs this year goes from 59.6 and 6.7 to 67.8 and 8.4, people will no longer talk about Dobbs' passing deficiencies, but will instead call him one of the best passers in the country....which will be an accurate statement.

 

[BigOrangeLoyalist]

Taken from ESPN.com -

vs. Oklahoma
Dobbs: 13/31, 125 yards (4.0 ypa) 1 TD 1 INT QBR 20.5 - 14 rushes for 12 yards (0.9 avg) 1 TD
Watson: 16/31, 187 yards (6.0 ypa) 1 TD 1 INT QBR 72.0 - 24 rushes for 125 yards (6.0 avg) 1 TD

vs. Alabama
Dobbs: 13/22, 171 yards (7.8 ypa) 1 TD 0 INT QBR 49.9 - 16 rushes for 19 yards (1.2 avg) 0 TD
Watson: 30/47, 405 yards (8.6 ypa) 4 TD 1 INT QBR 70.9 - 20 rushes for 73 yards (3.7 avg) 0 TD

vs. South Carolina
Dobbs: 20/34, 255 yards (7.5 ypa) 2 TD 1 INT QBR 56.6 - 13 rushes for 35 yards (2.7 avg) 0 TD
Watson: 20/27, 279 yards (10.3 ypa) 1 TD 0 INT QBR 90.8 - 21 rushes for 114 yards (5.4 avg) 3 TD


I understand it isn't "all about stats", but based on stats, Watson outperformed Dobbs in every category against all three shared opponents. Before people come on here saying, "Well, that was a national title contending team, and they had a better o-line, etc. etc" don't forget that we were only a few plays away from a trip to ATL and a potential playoff spot.

 

[VolFootballIsLife]

This is your problem. You only see what's on a stat sheet. You can't see whats on tape. There is no gap between Dobbs and Watson when it comes to TALENT.

Dobbs is as talented if not moreso than Watson.

There have been disparate results so far in terms of box score stats because Watson plays in a more friendly scheme. His coach allows him to throw a lot more. He got to run more. The offense was totally built on him. Dobbs on the other hand has 2 5* RBs he's handing it off to 60+% of the time. And he has an ultra conservative coach who will only let him loose if we're down 2+ TDs

In the end talent always wins out. And Dobbs will prove he's as good if not better than Watson.

Josh will have a monster 2016.

Earlier in the thread I was ready to type my post in support of your Lamar Jackson comments. That kid is electric; probably the most talented running QB in the country. Those that disagree probably haven't seen him play.

But, you should really put the beaks on thus argument that Dobbs is close to Watson in pass efficiency/accuracy. DWs passing game is really far superior than JD...at least to this point and it's not even close. To argue otherwise is ridiculous and only one that a homer would make. I love UT as much as you....I promise. But, I'm also a realist.

 

[The Artful Dodger]

Now you are contradicting yourself. In an earlier post you stated that "Watson seems to have the better arm & accuracy but not by much." Then you make the above statement. Make up your mind. Watson is that much better at this point in time, and the guy is a true JR. I am tired of hearing about all the additional throws etc that Watson had. The reason he had more opportunities is simple, the offense was moving the chains, hence, more plays, it is simple math. Also, I do believe that Clemson had a RB go for over 1500 yds as well.

Tusk pointed out the similarities between Dobbs and Brandon Harris, and you guys might not like it, but, he is spot on. BTW Harris is a true JR as well.

Dobbs is a great athlete playing QB, Watson is a great QB who happens to be a great athlete as well. And D4H, potential without results is just wasted opportunities. I will be glad to eat crow if Dobbs can exceed Watson's numbers, but, it ain't happening.

Agree with pretty much everything you said except the Dobbs to Brandon Harris comparison. Dobbs is a lot better overall QB than Harris, as a runner and passer. Harris doesn't even run that much. Bad comparison.

 

[KBVol]

Earlier in the thread I was ready to type my post in support of your Lamar Jackson comments. That kid is electric; probably the most talented running QB in the country. Those that disagree probably haven't seen him play.

But, you should really put the beaks on thus argument that Dobbs is close to Watson in pass efficiency/accuracy. DWs passing game is really far superior than JD...at least to this point and it's not even close. To argue otherwise is ridiculous and only one that a homer would make. I love UT as much as you....I promise. But, I'm also a realist.

That next to last sentence.....you love Tennessee, as do I and the other posters. But not D4H, he has already stated that many times. He's not a Tennessee fan...he's only a Dobbs fan.

 

[The Artful Dodger]

And your primary problem is your arrogance and unwillingness to factor in objective measurement if it doesn't suit your purpose. And I suspect very strongly that if the shoe were on the other foot and it was Josh who had the much more impressive numbers, you'd be shouting them from the rooftops as evidence that he was better. You know and I know it.



1. I've seen every game Josh Dobbs has ever played at UT. I've thought from day 1, the first time that I saw him play, when he entered the game in the second half vs Bama his freshman year, that he was a talented young playmaking QB, and I think I was right about him. The difference is that, unlike you, I and others can see his one primary weakness and well as his other many strengths. And as good as Josh is, which is plenty good, there is absolutely, positively a gap in throwing ability/throwing accuracy between Josh and Deshaun.....and it's the primary reason why so many have Deshaun as the #1 college QB in the country, and Josh a good bit on further down the list, closer to the 9th or 10th.

2. Watson gets to throw more than Josh because Dabo trusts him much more than Butch trusts Josh IMO.....many Vol practice observers/insiders have made this comment and observation.

3. The argument could easily be made that Tennessee's offense is built as much around Josh as Clemson's is built around Deshaun. Josh, between his pass attempts and runs last year averaged about 37 "touches" per game.....that's much more than either Hurd (23) or AK (11) for sure....as a matter of fact, it's more than those two combined. You'll see similar numbers in terms of ratios if you look at Clemson's offense. Only real difference is that Watson is more efficient and productive in every measure than Josh.....better completion %, more yards per pass attempt, more yards per carry, more touchdowns.....thus he gets more trust and more individual attempts/touches per game.

4. Watson actually played with a running back who got nearly 300 carries ran for more yards had a better yards per carry average than Hurd last year. So your attempt to make it as though Watson didn't rely on help from others in his backfield was a poor one.

5. I agree that Jones has an ultra conservative side with regards to his offensive gameplans and that it likely hinders Josh at times. But again, if Dobbs was showing more in practice, was lighting it up throwing the ball there, then Jones likely adjusts the gameplan and lets him do more on Saturdays.

6. Hope Josh has a monster season as well. And for the purposes of this thread and comparisons to Watson, he better if he's gonna close the gap on Deshaun, cause I can assure you hes about to put up huge numbers again this year.

Good points. However, I think Watson does benefit from playing in the ACC. Besides FSU and maaaaybe UNC, that conference is pretty bad. Watson is the unquestioned better passer of the two, but I think their rushing numbers would be almost identical if Josh played in the ACC or if Watson played in the SEC.

 

[UT-Rex]

Taken from ESPN.com -

vs. Oklahoma
Dobbs: 13/31, 125 yards (4.0 ypa) 1 TD 1 INT QBR 20.5 - 14 rushes for 12 yards (0.9 avg) 1 TD
Watson: 16/31, 187 yards (6.0 ypa) 1 TD 1 INT QBR 72.0 - 24 rushes for 125 yards (6.0 avg) 1 TD

vs. Alabama
Dobbs: 13/22, 171 yards (7.8 ypa) 1 TD 0 INT QBR 49.9 - 16 rushes for 19 yards (1.2 avg) 0 TD
Watson: 30/47, 405 yards (8.6 ypa) 4 TD 1 INT QBR 70.9 - 20 rushes for 73 yards (3.7 avg) 0 TD

vs. South Carolina
Dobbs: 20/34, 255 yards (7.5 ypa) 2 TD 1 INT QBR 56.6 - 13 rushes for 35 yards (2.7 avg) 0 TD
Watson: 20/27, 279 yards (10.3 ypa) 1 TD 0 INT QBR 90.8 - 21 rushes for 114 yards (5.4 avg) 3 TD


I understand it isn't "all about stats", but based on stats, Watson outperformed Dobbs in every category against all three shared opponents. Before people come on here saying, "Well, that was a national title contending team, and they had a better o-line, etc. etc" don't forget that we were only a few plays away from a trip to ATL and a potential playoff spot.

It's all about future potential stats, not actual past stats -- don't you know? And, if you'll simply take a few moments to re-watch, 2 or 3 times, the video of all 6 of those games, you'll surely see and change your position. And, even if JD reaches the projected 3500 yds passing in 2016, the actual 4100 yds passing from DW in 2015 still means nothing in relation to current standing -- don't you realize?

And let me add: surely you as a BO Loyalist didn't stick around watching our VOLS during the 2000's (prior to 2014), did you ??

 

[KBVol]

Good points. However, I think Watson does benefit from playing in the ACC. Besides FSU and maaaaybe UNC, that conference is pretty bad. Watson is the unquestioned better passer of the two, but I think their rushing numbers would be almost identical if Josh played in the ACC or if Watson played in the SEC.

Perhaps. However, Josh snd Deshaun played against 3 common opponents last year and versus those same 3 teams, Watson performed much better.....

Watson:
66-105 62.8% 871 yds 6 tds 2 ints
65 carries 332 yds 5.1 ypc 4 tds

Dobbs:
46-87 52.8% 551 yds 4 tds 3 ints
43 carries 66 yds 1.53 ypc 1 TD

So, while we can subjectively project what may or may not have happened with respect to their performances had they played in different conferences, the fact is that, objectively speaking, when they played 3 common opponents in the same season, Watson's performances vs those same 3 teams far exceeded Dobbs'

 

[The Artful Dodger]

Perhaps. However, Josh snd Deshaun played against 3 common opponents last year and versus those same 3 teams, Watson performed much better.....

Watson:
66-105 62.8% 871 yds 6 tds 2 ints
65 carries 332 yds 5.1 ypc 4 tds

Dobbs:
46-87 52.8% 551 yds 4 tds 3 ints
43 carries 66 yds 1.53 ypc 1 TD

So, while we can subjectively project what may or may not have happened with respect to their performances had they played in different conferences, the fact is that, objectively speaking, when they played 3 common opponents in the same season, Watson's performances vs those same 3 teams far exceeded Dobbs'

I don't think that really relates when it comes to playing a full conference slate in the ACC vs the SEC. Clemson's overall conference schedule is a cake walk compared to Tennessee's most every year.

Once again, I am just talking about rushing numbers. The discrepancy in the passing numbers can be attributed to Watson being a better thrower.

 

[KBVol]

I don't think that really relates when it comes to playing a full conference slate in the ACC vs the SEC. Clemson's overall conference schedule is a cake walk compared to Tennessee's most every year.

Wait a minute. So you don't think actual games vs not one, not two, but three like opponents has no merit? Come on Dodge.

And for the record, according to Sports Reference, in 2015 Tennessee was #44 in strength of schedule.....Clemson was #10.

Teamrankings.com had Tennessee's SOS at #12 and Clemson at #4.

 

[VolFreakJosh]

Wait a minute. So you don't think actual games vs not one, not two, but three like opponents has no merit? Come on Dodge.

And for the record, according to Sports Reference, in 2015 Tennessee was #44 in strength of schedule.....Clemson was #10.

Teamrankings.com had Tennessee's SOS at #12 and Clemson at #4.

And that's what you call invalid information. Tennessee had a much more difficult schedule than Clemson in 2015. We came close to beating Alabama/Oklahoma who were both play off teams. Think about it, Dobbs embarrassed two Big 10 teams. We all know how weak that conference is so could you imagine what Dobbs could do to an ACC defense? Of course he's no where close to Watson's level but Dobbs would put up similar numbers against ACC competition. The SEC isn't the most talented conference for nothing.

 

[k-town_king]

Watson is better but Dobbs is a good qb. Its really simple.

 

[KBVol]

And that's what you call invalid information. Tennessee had a much more difficult schedule than Clemson in 2015. We came close to beating Alabama/Oklahoma who were both play off teams. Think about it, Dobbs embarrassed two Big 10 teams. We all know how weak that conference is so could you imagine what Dobbs could do to an ACC defense? Of course he's no where close to Watson's level but Dobbs would put up similar numbers against ACC competition. The SEC isn't the most talented conference for nothing.

Ok, again, you're willing to just look past the fact that Josh and Deshaun played 3 like opponents, 3 exact same teams within weeks of each other.....SCar, Oklahoma and Alabama....and you're good with just throwing out the objective evidence that shows Watson performed light years better both through the air and on the ground vs those 3 teams.....all while you to the overwhelmingly subjective opinion that Dobbs would do much better than Watson if he had played Clemson's schedule....even though 2 different sources have data that shows Clemson actually had a more difficult strength of schedule than we did?

Think about it....Watson easily beat Oklahoma, a team that Dobbs struggled with and lost to....and Watson embarrassed the #1 team in the country, Alabama, with nearly 500 total yards and 4 tds.....another team that Josh struggled with and lost to.

 

[TheColdVolTruth]

Watson is better but Dobbs is a good qb. Its really simple.

I'd agree with this, but I'm glad Josh is our QB. Watson is a more polished passer, but Josh is a Volunteer. I will hate to see him go.

 

[KBVol]

Watson is better but Dobbs is a good qb. Its really simple.

Of course, we all agree. Dobbs is one of the best quarterbacks in the country, probably top 5-6 IMO. Watson, IMHO, is the best.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Taken from ESPN.com -

vs. Oklahoma
Dobbs: 13/31, 125 yards (4.0 ypa) 1 TD 1 INT QBR 20.5 - 14 rushes for 12 yards (0.9 avg) 1 TD
Watson: 16/31, 187 yards (6.0 ypa) 1 TD 1 INT QBR 72.0 - 24 rushes for 125 yards (6.0 avg) 1 TD

vs. Alabama
Dobbs: 13/22, 171 yards (7.8 ypa) 1 TD 0 INT QBR 49.9 - 16 rushes for 19 yards (1.2 avg) 0 TD
Watson: 30/47, 405 yards (8.6 ypa) 4 TD 1 INT QBR 70.9 - 20 rushes for 73 yards (3.7 avg) 0 TD

vs. South Carolina
Dobbs: 20/34, 255 yards (7.5 ypa) 2 TD 1 INT QBR 56.6 - 13 rushes for 35 yards (2.7 avg) 0 TD
Watson: 20/27, 279 yards (10.3 ypa) 1 TD 0 INT QBR 90.8 - 21 rushes for 114 yards (5.4 avg) 3 TD


I understand it isn't "all about stats", but based on stats, Watson outperformed Dobbs in every category against all three shared opponents. Before people come on here saying, "Well, that was a national title contending team, and they had a better o-line, etc. etc" don't forget that we were only a few plays away from a trip to ATL and a potential playoff spot.

Those numbers have no relevance to next season or what they do in the pros.

I've already stated that Clemson puts Watson in a more QB friendly system to get big stats while Butch has Dobbs shackled until we go down 2+ TDs then he lets him loose.

Lets see what happens this year.

I'm betting Dobbs is the one at NYC for the Heisman presentation instead of Watson.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Perhaps. However, Josh snd Deshaun played against 3 common opponents last year and versus those same 3 teams, Watson performed much better.....

Watson:
66-105 62.8% 871 yds 6 tds 2 ints
65 carries 332 yds 5.1 ypc 4 tds

Dobbs:
46-87 52.8% 551 yds 4 tds 3 ints
43 carries 66 yds 1.53 ypc 1 TD

So, while we can subjectively project what may or may not have happened with respect to their performances had they played in different conferences, the fact is that, objectively speaking, when they played 3 common opponents in the same season, Watson's performances vs those same 3 teams far exceeded Dobbs'

Different schemes. Different coaches. Different styles of attack.

We run to set up the pass. Clemson passes to set up the run.

We run a spread power running attack. Clemson runs a more air raid type scheme.

Butch has only let Dobbs have as much control of the offense as Dabo lets of Watson everygame when we played Georgia and were down 21 points.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Watson is better but Dobbs is a good qb. Its really simple.

The NFL is the great equalizer. We'll know then who is better.

I'm saying Dobbs is the better player. He's just had circumstances standing in his way at Tennessee while Watson has benefited from a more stat friendly system at Clemson.

 

[Nasavol]

Your like Reggie Jackson, you shout to the rooftops when you hit a home run, yet forget about all your strikeouts.

The NFL has absolutely no bearing on who the better college player is. 2 different games, even though they are both football.

The best RB in the NFL, was not the best RB in college, not even close. The same can be said for the QB position as well. So no, it is not the great equalizer.

As to the OP, I would personally rate Ward and Jackson 1 and 1A, interchange at will. D4H was absolutely right about Jackson, and, as far as running ability, his comparison to Vick was right on the money. I would put Dobbs 3rd, then Watson 4th. I have no idea about the kid from SMU, never saw him play last year.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Your like Reggie Jackson, you shout to the rooftops when you hit a home run, yet forget about all your strikeouts.

The NFL has absolutely no bearing on who the better college player is. 2 different games, even though they are both football.

The best RB in the NFL, was not the best RB in college, not even close. The same can be said for the QB position as well. So no, it is not the great equalizer.

As to the OP, I would personally rate Ward and Jackson 1 and 1A, interchange at will. D4H was absolutely right about Jackson, and, as far as running ability, his comparison to Vick was right on the money. I would put Dobbs 3rd, then Watson 4th. I have no idea about the kid from SMU, never saw him play last year.

Who said anything about better college player?

I said better player period.

 

[butchna]

No, not at all. You will not win the SEC and beyond being one-dimensional on offense. Spread or not. The barn rode the power spread on their NC run. Cam had to pass well and often, and he had a stable of backs who could push the ball downfield.

What about the SECOND time they beat you on the way to the NC game? They had a glorified DB running things. Dobbs is better than Marshall and I bet you declared that THEY wouldn't win the SEC either. Seems like you're not the last word on that matter.

 

[KBVol]

Different schemes. Different coaches. Different styles of attack.

We run to set up the pass. Clemson passes to set up the run.

We run a spread power running attack. Clemson runs a more air raid type scheme.

Butch has only let Dobbs have as much control of the offense as Dabo lets of Watson everygame when we played Georgia and were down 21 points.

Same exact opponents, same exact personnel, same exact defenses.......waayyyyyyy more production for Watson.

Also, are you telling us that when Butch let Dobbs throw it 31 times vs Oklahoma and 36 times vs Arky and 34 times vs SCar, that he didn't give Dobbs control of the offense? Watson gets more opportunities to throw the ball because he's simply better at it, it's really that simple. Josh is very good, Deshaun is elite.....that difference doesn't diminish Josh at all.

 

[Nasavol]

Who said anything about better college player?

I said better player period.

Read the 2nd sentence in that exchange, you know, the one that says it is 2 different games.

My point to that was you cannot say that the pro level dictates who was better, it doesn't work that way.

BTW, you never took me up on my CJ Beathard v Dobbs in the NFL wager, we can make it simple, like you have to change your avatar to lets say Donald Trump or something.