Peyton Manning Named Most Dominant NFLer of Last 2 Decades

#51
#51
05_never_again said:
Hard to say about Marvin Harrison - he played basically his entire career with Peyton, however, he had a really productive rookie and second seasons, then Peyton came along. Same for Reggie Wayne; he had a great year with Luck in Luck's rookie year, but then was injury-plagued after that. Welker put up better numbers and made all his Pro Bowls with Brady, not Peyton, but he was made a great receiver by both. Harrison and Wayne, I think, would have had great careers elsewhere not playing with Peyton. Welker...I'm not so sure.

Adding Corey Dillon to Brady's list is fair. I honestly totally forgot about him. However it is worth noting that Dillon only had one really good year in NE, which was his first. Brady has never had elite weapons, particularly pass catchers, remain on his teams for extended periods of time. Peyton has had a lot more of those guys than
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And they were great because of him. Wayne was productive but not Pro Bowl level and Edgerrin James was a spare at Arizona when he was still at a young age. The concussions kinda wrecked what Welker had going in Denver. Through 11 games he had matched his TD total for any season with the Pats...but you’re right. His production at NE was HOF worthy which lends to the fact that NEITHER Brady nor Peyton made him great...he already was. Dallas Clark was transcendent with Indy...didn’t do jack with Tampa Bay. Harrison had a decent 800 yard season as a rookie. He became a HOF because Peyton threw him into top 5 production receiving numbers. No Indy OL moved to another team and registered...Patriots have had several, and recently (Nate Solder the latest). The Pats refused to pay their Deion Branches and Terry Givens so their career numbers weren’t inflated by a long association with Tom Brady, which inflated this fallacy that he didn’t have talent. Belichick would have never retained a Harrison or Wayne through the end of their careers. Truth is BOTH Peyton and Brady made/make their weapons better and there was no advantage for Peyton in that department. I’ve conceded a couple of Super Bowls ago that Brady will be remembered as the superior QB...because of his championships, not because of the reasons you’re asserting.
 
#54
#54
Daloth said:
Fixed that for you.
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Actually you didn't. The patriots have been a revolving door of players since the run began. Only one player has been a constant. They have made the playoffs every year since 2003 with the exception of the 2008 season. Guess who was out tg At year.

Statistically Peyton is the GOAT. First ballot hall of fame absolutely! But most dominant athlete of the past 20 years hardly. He's not even the most dominant in his own sport.

Jimmie Johnson won 5 NASCAR championships in a row in a sport that is built specifically to avoid that kind of domination.
 
#55
#55
CTVolsfan14 said:
I'm not here to get into a Brady Manning debate. It's one thats impossible to have with most Vol fans. But you do realize Peyton Manning is 14-13 overall so not sure where you think saying Tom only being 18-9 since starting 9-0 supports your argument.

If you want to sit here and say he's the best I ever saw, thats fine. Your opinion. There's guys that say that about Dan Marino, Montana, Elway.. and that's fine. If we all agreed that'd be boring.

But the facts are the facts. I love Peyton. GREAT ambassador for my beloved Vols and the best we have ever produced. He was absolutely lethal during the regular season, and those Peyton vs Tom matchups were the most enjoyable of my life to watch. In clutch time though I'll take Tom every time, you can disagree and that's fine. I'll be on the winning side of that more times than not if we look at their careers.

Brady has the best coach of all time. That guy was fired and had a losing record in NE before he got Tom. Peyton also had a Hall of Fame coach and had more pro bowlers during his career than Tom on the offensive side of the ball, it's not close as well. Peyton also went one and done in the playoffs 9 times, 8 times at home vs a team with a worse record. I can rebuttal the Peyton facts for days.

To the Peyton defenders like yourself, you just have to say he's the best qb you ever saw throw the ball indoors.. it's tough to argue with that. If you want to try and bring stats into it you will lose.. every time.
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How many of those pro bowlers were bowling before Peyton? Who were Dallas Clark and Julius Thomas? Also, go check Demaryius Thomas's stats before Manning. He made players and players around him better.

People always bring rings to the conversation but Bart Starr has as many rings as Brady but we don't consider him near Brady. Montana has 4 and for some reason we say he's better than Manning but that's absolutely not true unless again, we go off of rings only.
 
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#56
#56
norrislakevol said:
Lol! Let Rogers play with that Indy defense too if you want to making incorrect arguments such as this.
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You must not have been paying attention to the Packers' defense the past 3-4 seasons.

BTW, it has been the defense that won both Super Bowls Manning has played in
 
#59
#59
Best stat hardly anyone brings up is that Manning went to 4 super bowls with 4 different head coaches with 2 different franchises. Peyton was never a system QB. That last season being the exception (tho they don't go to and win super bowl with Osweiler) Manning was the reason for his teams success.
 
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#60
#60
114VOL said:
You must not have been paying attention to the Packers' defense the past 3-4 seasons.

BTW, it has been the defense that won both Super Bowls Manning has played in
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It's been the D that lost both SB's. Colts were up 11 on the Saints and then Freeney went down and Colts couldn't get them off the field. Manning took like 3 snaps in 2 hours (and didn't convert because of a Garzon drop).

The D gave up 17 to the Bears and the Colts scored 28 on their vaunted D in bad weather. Why you're giving that victory to the D, i have no idea.
 
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#61
#61
CTVolsfan14 said:
I'm not here to get into a Brady Manning debate. It's one thats impossible to have with most Vol fans. But you do realize Peyton Manning is 14-13 overall so not sure where you think saying Tom only being 18-9 since starting 9-0 supports your argument.

If you want to sit here and say he's the best I ever saw, thats fine. Your opinion. There's guys that say that about Dan Marino, Montana, Elway.. and that's fine. If we all agreed that'd be boring.

But the facts are the facts. I love Peyton. GREAT ambassador for my beloved Vols and the best we have ever produced. He was absolutely lethal during the regular season, and those Peyton vs Tom matchups were the most enjoyable of my life to watch. In clutch time though I'll take Tom every time, you can disagree and that's fine. I'll be on the winning side of that more times than not if we look at their careers.

Brady has the best coach of all time. That guy was fired and had a losing record in NE before he got Tom. Peyton also had a Hall of Fame coach and had more pro bowlers during his career than Tom on the offensive side of the ball, it's not close as well. Peyton also went one and done in the playoffs 9 times, 8 times at home vs a team with a worse record. I can rebuttal the Peyton facts for days.

To the Peyton defenders like yourself, you just have to say he's the best qb you ever saw throw the ball indoors.. it's tough to argue with that. If you want to try and bring stats into it you will lose.. every time.
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They're both overrated. They got max protection from the refs while guys like Staubach and Unitas had to pray they didn't get their block knocked off next play. Then look at the early 80s QB stars, who suddenly had to deal with pass rush "specialists" like LT, Smith, Gastineau, etc. without the zebra protection allowed to Peyton and Tommy. Marino was better than both of them. Look at his numbers and realize he did that:
1) Without a running game,
2) With the worst defense in the history of mankind, a D so rancid it was called the "Olphins" (because they had no D).
 
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#62
#62
CTVolsfan14 said:
He won 200 including playoffs. (14-13)

It was smart of ESPN to leave the playoff wins and records out of it, wouldn't support the narrative of putting Peyton #1 :hi:
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Such a false narrative. He "only" won two Super Bowls.
 
#63
#63
IMHO, Peyton’s true testament to greatness was his ability to take FOUR different head coaches to the big game under two franchises. Tommy boy has played for one coach (maybe the best ever, albeit a notorious cheater) and franchise with the same offensive system throughout his career. Give these facts serious thought and you may better understand Peyton’s impressive genius.
 
#64
#64
Also, absorb this fact. In the four most important games between Peyton’s and Tom’s teams, Peyton’s went 3-1.

Hello!
 
#65
#65
iluvsmesumPrUiTt said:
They're both overrated. They got max protection from the refs while guys like Staubach and Unitas had to pray they didn't get their block knocked off next play. Then look at the early 80s QB stars, who suddenly had to deal with pass rush "specialists" like LT, Smith, Gastineau, etc. without the zebra protection allowed to Peyton and Tommy. Marino was better than both of them. Look at his numbers and realize he did that:
1) Without a running game,
2) With the worst defense in the history of mankind, a D so rancid it was called the "Olphins" (because they had no D).
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Fixed.
 
#66
#66
n_huffhines said:
It's been the D that lost both SB's. Colts were up 11 on the Saints and then Freeney went down and Colts couldn't get them off the field. Manning took like 3 snaps in 2 hours (and didn't convert because of a Garzon drop).

The D gave up 17 to the Bears and the Colts scored 28 on their vaunted D in bad weather. Why you're giving that victory to the D, i have no idea.
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Silly post. Manning had the ball in the 4th quarter with plenty of time and threw a pick 6.

Seattle's D gave Manning a "deer in the headlights" look from the very first snap.

As to your last comment I will answer this way: Because I am more informed than you. Sorry
 
#67
#67
114VOL said:
Silly post. Manning had the ball in the 4th quarter with plenty of time and threw a pick 6.

Seattle's D gave Manning a "deer in the headlights" look from the very first snap.

As to your last comment I will answer this way: Because I am more informed than you. Sorry
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None of this refutes my arguments about the D failing, you're just Manning bashing on a Vols message board. Weird, but that being said:

Tracy Porter guessed and jumped the checkdown route. Manning makes that throw every time without apology. That's how they made the SB with poor pass protection.

The first snap was over Manning's head. What are you talking about? He had no shot in that game but actually played pretty well. He threw a ton out of desperation against the greatest d of all time and only made one bad throw all game.
 
#68
#68
This discussion is always tiresome but never fails to drag me in. I, like many of my Tennessee breathern will always know that Manning is the greatest of all time.

However, for those that claim Brady is the greatest of all time because of Super Bowl wins, should then argue that Peyton was in the second tier of great quarterbacks including Bob Griese and Jim Plunkett.

8 Tom Brady 5–3
4 Terry Bradshaw 4–0
4 Joe Montana 4–0
3 Troy Aikman 3–0
5 John Elway 2–3
4 Roger Staubach 2–2
4 Peyton Manning* 2–2
3 Bob Griese 2–1
3 Ben Roethlisberger 2–1
2 Bart Starr 2–0
2 Jim Plunkett 2–0
2 Eli Manning 2–0
3 Kurt Warner 1–2
2 Len Dawson 1–1
2 Joe Theismann 1–1
2 Brett Favre 1–1
2 Russell Wilson 1–1

List of quarterbacks with multiple Super Bowl starts - Wikipedia

But I guess it depends on your narrative. Bart Starr won five NFL Championships and only lost one championship game. Terry Bradshaw never lost a Super Bowl, is he the greatest of all time? Troy Aikman has a higher winning percentage in the post season and never lost a Super Bowl, so maybe he is the greatest. Then Peyton has more post season losses than any quarterback, where does that put him? Of course Brady is second with most post season losses, where would that put him?

The only way I have any chance of keeping myself honest in this debate is to ask; "If I were building a team, who would I pick?" I started watching the NFL in the mid seventies, so around that narrative, I would have a tough decision between Peyton, Dan Marino, and John Elway, but there is simply no way that Brady would be that selection.
 
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#69
#69
n_huffhines said:
None of this refutes my arguments about the D failing, you're just Manning bashing on a Vols message board. Weird, but that being said:

Tracy Porter guessed and jumped the checkdown route. Manning makes that throw every time without apology. That's how they made the SB with poor pass protection.

The first snap was over Manning's head. What are you talking about? He had no shot in that game but actually played pretty well. He threw a ton out of desperation against the greatest d of all time and only made one bad throw all game.
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I'm not bashing him. I'm stating facts about his play. Just because I'm not drooling over him doesn't mean I'm bashing him
 
#70
#70
What about Jim Kelly and his 0-4!? Four straight years he took the Bills to the SB and lost every one of them. That has to be the biggest fail in nfl history.
 
#71
#71
Peyton nor Brady ever tackled anyone. Never kicked the ball. Probably never blocked anyone. Never really ran the ball. No, it is a team game when measuring the winners and losers but when looking at the best individual player the majority of players and coaches in the NFL all agree that Manning is the best. Brady played on the best team full of future Hall of Fame defensive players. Many others played QB for NE and won as well. Peyton did win 2 at 2 different places. The only one to ever do that. He put players in Canton that you barely heard of before he got there. Brady even called Manning the GOAT. But there are a few experts on here that know more then the NFL players and coaches.
 
#72
#72
114VOL said:
I'm not bashing him. I'm stating facts about his play. Just because I'm not drooling over him doesn't mean I'm bashing him
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Why wouldn't you drool over him? America does, it's weird when Vols fans don't.

He received very little criticism for the SB pick 6 because people who know football and watched thd Colts knew that they necesssrily lived and died with pre-snap adjustments.
 
#73
#73
n_huffhines said:
Why wouldn't you drool over him? America does, it's weird when Vols fans don't.

He received very little criticism for the SB pick 6 because people who know football and watched thd Colts knew that they necesssrily lived and died with pre-snap adjustments.
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I don't drool over anyone, but then again I'm not a typical fan
 
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