Peyton manning= best qb ever

#251
#251
Manning may be the most talented. The smartest. The most "in control" QB ever.

But he comes up short in the biggest moments. That is a fact.
 
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#252
#252
Manning's HCs:

Mora
Dungy
Caldwell
Fox

Not a HOFer among them.

Montana -- Walsh in HOF
Bradshaw -- Noll in HOF
Brady -- Belicheck a 1st Ballot Lock
 
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#253
#253
Wylo said:
You keep showing teams from the pre-salary cap era.

Of course they are gonna have more stars.
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In 15 seasons on the field, Manning has played w/ 1 HOFer (and for only 2 years -- Faulk), and has had average or bad HCs.
 
#254
#254
Wylo said:
Remind me again how the Ravens got the ball in OT?

Manning INT, just in case you forgot.

Manning did enough to win, but his defense choked away regulation. Manning choked away the OT.
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Didn't choke away the game when he took them on what would've and should've been the game winning drive late in the 4th. That "game winning" drive was the reason that Baltimore had to even attempt that Hail Mary in the first place. Yeah, he made a bad pass leading to that pick. But to put that loss on Manning is absolutely ridiculous.
 
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#255
#255
burntorangeVOLffle said:
I don't know that Oakland would have gone onto the SB as that was the divisional round but yes they definitely had some luck with the tuck rule and Vinitari making a 40 some odd FG in a blizzard.

Also, I mentioned it earlier (maybe in another thread), In that same playoff run Brady was injured and Bledsoe won the AFC CG at Pittsburgh to get them to the SB.

Then as Wise pointed out Brady only passed for 133 yards in the SB. Hard to credit him with greatness on that particular SB run and victory (not to take anything away from his next two).
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The number of yards passed in a SB doesn't dictate greatness. Slightly off point: Bart Star was never what you could call great passer. He was consistently outperformed by Johnny Unitas. You probably can say the same about Roger Staubach and Don Meredith Bart was a game manager, but he won whereas those other guys didn't even get into the SB during that era. I think greatness should be reflected in the quality of character and teh team record. PM is one classy guy, I think we can all agree. His teams have been winning team. just one SB but they have been winning teams. He makes his team mates better. His team respects him. To me that greatness. Brady, I don't really know enough about his character, I believe his team respects him, I don't know if he makes his team mates better because I just don't really pay attention to NE.
But if yes on all accounts, he's a great QB. So is PM.
 
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#257
#257
Wylo said:
Manning may be the most talented. The smartest. The most "in control" QB ever.

But he comes up short in the biggest moments. That is a fact.
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The 1st pass completed by the QB is just as important as the last. Same for incompletes.

IF PM doesn't have a great game (88 PR) vs. Balt., they're never in OT.

The next week, Brady's PR is 62 vs. the Ravens. It wasn't any one particular pass that cost NE the game -- it was his WHOLE game.
 
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#259
#259
WiseOlVol said:
Compare the HOFers on Montana's 49ers vs. PM's Colts.

Colts: Marshall Faulk (played with PM 2 years)

49ers:

Fred Dean (1981-1985)
Ronnie Lott (1981-1990)
Jerry Rice (1985-2000)
Bill Walsh (1979-1988)
Steve Young (1987-1999)
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Are you seriously counting the back up QB? Lol Their careers are not over but it's possible, Wayne, Harrison, Mathis and Freeney get in. Simply naming HOFers while guys are still playing is a silly argument. The fact that Montana only played with 3, hinders the Montana teams were loaded argument.
 
#260
#260
WiseOlVol said:
3-1 vs Alabama.

Take That !
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Throw in 1-0 vs 11-1 Ohio State and a pretty nice 4 td performance vs Auburn for the 1997 SEC Championship.

You don't go 39-6 as a starter in the SEC if you can't handle the pressure of playing in a big game. Florida, the ONLY team that Peyton struggled with, had and still has UT's number.... not just Peyton's.
 
#262
#262
KBVol said:
Can't disagree. I will offer this though. The year NE brought in Randy Moss where he set the td record for WRs and Brady had 50 tds passing, we kind of got a glimpse of what that looked like for NE. They set records and got to a Super Bowl, but fell short of expectations by losing that SuperBowl to the Giants.

I'll also say that while Manning has had more WR talent than Brady over the years, he never had anyone remotely as talented as Randy Moss. Harrison was a 5'11 175lb quick guy who ran premise routes but who also required precise passing on Manning's part to be as successful as he was. Reggie Wayne was the 6th WR taken the year he came out, not a speed guy, 6'0 tall, great hands.....but make no mistake.... neither was in Moss' league from a physical or athletic standpoint. I would argue that Manning made them much more than they made Manning. Would anybody know who Brandon Stokley, Dallas Clark or Austin Collie are if they hadn't played with Peyton? Doubtful.

As I say all this I'm not trying to disparage Brady in any way. Dude is an all time great IMO. He's a clutch performer and a great winning QB who has done great things with some WRs who aren't exactly going to the Hall of Fame. I don't subscribe to idea that Peyton is great while Brady just sucks. That's ridiculous. Both guys are all time greats and first ballot hall of famers
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I think your first paragraph goes with what I said.

As for the rest Moss is the greatest talent that either QB has had, but he was there for a snapshot of Brady's career. Harrison, Wayne, Stokely, Clark, DT, Decker>>>Troy Brown, Deion Branch, David Patton, Welker, Moss.
 
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#264
#264
WiseOlVol said:
Bradshaw had 9 guys go to the HOF from his Pittsburgh teams.

Mel Blount (1970-1983)
Joe Greene (1969-1981)
Jack Ham (1971-1982)
Franco Harris (1972-1983)
Jack Lambert (1974-1984)
Chuck Noll (1969-1991)
John Stallworth (1974-1987)
Lynn Swann (1974-1982)
Mike Webster (1974-1988)
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I think you are the only person bringing up Bradshaw. But since you are on this kick, how many HOFers did Brady have?
 
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#265
#265
Another way to assess the relative weight of a quarterback’s contribution to victory in the Super Bowl, vis-à-vis that of the defense, would be to pose the following question: Has there ever been a Super Bowl-winning team with a defense ranked lower than Peyton’s 2006 Indianapolis Colts, who were 23rd in that category for the regular season? Answer: Only one, the 2011 New York Giants, who came in a porous 25th (400 pts.) and were, of course, quarterbacked by Peyton’s brother, Eli. Indeed, there have only been seven teams, counting the ’07 Giants, who won a Super Bowl despite being ranked 10th or lower in scoring defense:

1976 Oakland Raiders 12th (237 points in a 14-game season)
1980 Oakland Raiders 10th (306 pts.)
1983 Los Angeles Raiders 13th (338 pts.)
2007 New York Giants 17th (251 pts.)
2009 New Orleans Saints 20th (341 pts.)
2012 Baltimore Ravens 12th (344 pts.)

Incidentally, we have already observed that Bob Sanders returned for the playoff run and the Colts' defense played MUCH better with him in run support. It is also worth noting that the ’06 Colts managed to defeat the 3rd best scoring defense, the Bears, who yielded only 255 points that year.
 
#273
#273
WiseOlVol said:
In 15 seasons on the field, Manning has played w/ 1 HOFer (and for only 2 years -- Faulk), and has had average or bad HCs.
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He played with Marvin Harrison and Edgerrin James. They have a dozen Pro-bowls between them. Plus Dwight Freeney(7PB),Jeff Saturday(5PB),Reggie Wayne(6PB),Robert Mathis(4PB). And Broncos had six other pro-bowers last year including Champ Bailey who's a 1st ballot HOF'er.
 
#275
#275
Meachem said:
Best season QB you bet best Playoff QB not even close.
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Yes cause it was peyton blowing the coverage last year that gave Baltimore that TD to lose them that game.

The one year Indys D was worth a darn he went and won his one and only SB, every other season he made a 0-5 win team appear to be one of the best in the league winning at least 10 games a season. He then went to Denver and took a WR core that many considered lackluster and broke the season TD record and made them all look like probowlers.

I'm so sick of people bashing his playoff record while praising other QBs but failing to look at the opposite side of the ball for those same QBs. Brady has almost always had a solid team around him, one that won 10 games with Matt freaking Cassel as the QB, but yet people still try to say the only reason the Pats win is Brady. Manning MADE the colts what they were and that was proven with the one season he was unable to play.

Brady has ridden a solid team and took credit for things that has since been proven that, that team could do without him. Manning took a perennial cellar dweller and turned them into one of the winingest teams of all time, and what most colts fans knew, was proven to the rest of the world, when he was out for that season and the colts were lucky to win only 2 games.
 
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