Peyton Bradyized Ole Tom

#101
#101
On a side note, everyone is aware these guys like each other, right? They're friends.

Having said that.....

I thought having every record known to man.......every playoff record by Ruthian margins and having no less than 3 more rings than everyone else kind of cleared this up.

The man just lead the league in passing yards and TD's at age 44. Let me say that again so the people in the back can hear it. The man lead the league in passing yards and TDs at age 44. Oh, and it was the most yards he ever threw for in a season and 2nd most TDs he ever threw in a season. 44.

It's the 3rd most passing yards ever in a season and 10th most passing TDs ever in a season by anyone ever and he did at......again......44.

He has started in 47 playoff games. That's 3 full seasons worth of playoff games. He's been on the winning end of 35 of them. No one else has even started in 30 playoff games, let alone won 30. Only one guy has ever won more than 15 starts as a playoff QB.

He has 4 less playoff wins in Tampa than Peyton had in 12 seasons as a starting QB in Indianapolis.
 
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#102
#102
Mr French said:
Because he played the most important position on the field.. and wins and losses are a stat attributed to said position?
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It shouldn’t be. Did he catch the passes? Did he block? Did he kick the winning kick? Did he play defense? Did he do any coaching m? No to all. The whole record as a starting QB is ignorant. Because without the play of 21 other individuals, there is no winning.
 
#103
#103
Boston Vol said:
That’s not the point. If you’re going to penalize Brady for playing for the best(although Belichick isn’t) then you have to do the same for Montana. Walsh is unquestionably one of the five greatest coaches of all time. So obviously Montana greatly benefited from playing for Walsh.
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Here is where you miss. Belicheck had been a HC in the NFL for 6 years before 2001. Walsh wa in his 3rd overall year as a HC in 1981. While I do agree with you to a point, you should be able to see where a difference could be made. Belicheck won 11 games in 1994 and placed 2nd in the AFC central.

Did Walsh win 11 games before Montana? No he didn’t.
 
#106
#106
BigOrangeTrain said:
It shouldn’t be. Did he catch the passes? Did he block? Did he kick the winning kick? Did he play defense? Did he do any coaching m? No to all. The whole record as a starting QB is ignorant. Because without the play of 21 other individuals, there is no winning.
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Doesn't matter. As long as the win loss stat applies to the qb they get the lions share of the blame and the fame. Every other position gets a lot more leeway.
 
#107
#107
BigOrangeTrain said:
Agreed. That’s my point.
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Brady is still the goat. All quarterbacks have gotten bailed out by other players. I don't know why this is such an emotional argument. Who cares. Brady statically and championship wise is the de facto goat.
 
#108
#108
Mr French said:
Brady is still the goat. All quarterbacks have gotten bailed out by other players. I don't know why this is such an emotional argument. Who cares. Brady statically and championship wise is the de facto goat.
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Disagree on the GOAT. It’s not emotional. Just people in a message board expressing opinions.
 
#110
#110
BigOrangeTrain said:
It shouldn’t be. Did he catch the passes? Did he block? Did he kick the winning kick? Did he play defense? Did he do any coaching m? No to all. The whole record as a starting QB is ignorant. Because without the play of 21 other individuals, there is no winning.
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This can be carried to ridiculous lengths. You can say that about everything.

Example. The QB only has the stats he has because of the protection of the offensive line, the skill position players getting open, catching passes and the defense getting stops so the offense can get the ball and the QB has opportunities to put up numbers. So, not just W-L, but stats can be put under the same scrutiny.

Heck, I could claim Trevor Lawrence is the best QB in the NFL. It's just the other 21 guys are so bad at their jobs, he can't show you how good he is.

It wasn't until the man was in his 40's that he couldn't take a team with WRs who are 5'9 and undrafted and go win with them. Correction. He won with them. He couldn't win in the playoffs with them. He actually needed some talent around him.

People can play the blind man all they want, but having guys like Mike Evans and Chris Godwin around him instead of Julian Edelman and Wes Welker matters. So, does having a waiver wire revolving door at running back. New England has had a back rush for 1000 yards twice in the last 10 years. They won the Super Bowl (the year they beat Seattle) with their leading rusher having a grand total of 412 yards.
 
#112
#112
volfanhill said:
Huh? Brady won a Super Bowl the year he left.
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Nevermind that Andrew Luck had the Colts in the playoffs as a rookie. The first year after Peyton was gone.

Or that New England's loss was one of the most embarrassing losses in NFL playoff history as the Bills scored a TD on every possession against the league's #2 ranked defense.
 
#118
#118
BigOrangeTrain said:
And Brady never stopped a single offensive person from scoring for the other team. See how that works? Do you see why it’s a ridiculous statement to say Brady is the GOAT? It’s a dumb assumption.

Look at the SB against Atlanta. The Falcons made the Pats look dumb in the first half. What happened? Was it all Brady? No it wasn’t. Had Belichek and the defense not adjusted the Pats may have suffered the worst SB loss ever. Against the Rams in 2019. If the Rams even score half of their season average, they win. Against the Chiefs, Brady’s teams defense played what might be considered the greatest SB ever. Holding Mahomes to ZERO TDS. I can go on and on.

You just refuse to see it. As great as Brady is, he has benefitted GREATLY from a great coaching staff and team. You think the Pats win it all in 2001, 03 and 04 without their defense? No way. Nor do they win them without Brady.
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I’m pretty sure every football team needs all three parts of the team 😂 offense, defense, special teams. Every Super Bowl winning team had all 3 big guy so calm down. I think what the people who support Brady as the Goat, and so do I imo. He plays the most important position in football. He literally owns every record their is to have and he won 7 Super Bowls more then any franchise.
To say the man isn’t the greatest at this point is really just saying you don’t like Tom Brady and you will do anything to dis credit him. Peyton is my favorite qb but you have to know when someone’s just that guy.
 
#119
#119
BigOrangeTrain said:
It shouldn’t be. Did he catch the passes? Did he block? Did he kick the winning kick? Did he play defense? Did he do any coaching m? No to all. The whole record as a starting QB is ignorant. Because without the play of 21 other individuals, there is no winning.
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I’m confused? Are you saying he isn’t the best qb of all time?.. cmon man think of how many seasons of football their has been.. how many qbs, teams, coaches.. he owns every record their is to own and even has more super bowls then franchises 😂 That’s not just something that falls into your lap. He the goat bro just quit hating on him at this point I’m not even sure if you know what you’re arguing anymore.
Don’t forget the water boys too! Without them Tom would’ve never won the 6th Super Bowl 😂😂😂
 
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#121
#121
BigOrangeTrain said:
You are missing the point. When people talk about SB winners, most mention the other team as well. Talk about Montana and inevitability will hear Rice, Lott, Clark, Walsh, Craig and Taylor. Mention Aikman, you get Smith, Ervin, Harper, Haley, Sanders, Johnston and the OL.

But not Brady. Brady is the only QB that gets sole credit for the SB wins. It doesn’t matter who the defense or FG kicker did. Doesn’t matter how good his OL performed or Belicheck. It’s ONLY Brady. That’s where you and others fail. Does Tom Brady have 7 rings? Yes. Was it all because of him? No. He was part of a team that won.

Bill Russell has 11 rings in the NBA. Ever hear his name mentioned in the GOAT debate? Nope.
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You can’t talk about Belicheck. It’s painfully obvious that he needed Brady more than Brady needed him. It centers around the QB position and it always will they don’t anything without first being put in a position to win. For years and years Adam Vinatieri, Ty Law, Teddy Bruschi, Willie McGinist, Richard Seymour, and the cowboy Vince Wilfork got credit but quickly pointed at Tom.
 
#122
#122
BigOrangeTrain said:
You are missing the point. When people talk about SB winners, most mention the other team as well. Talk about Montana and inevitability will hear Rice, Lott, Clark, Walsh, Craig and Taylor. Mention Aikman, you get Smith, Ervin, Harper, Haley, Sanders, Johnston and the OL.

But not Brady. Brady is the only QB that gets sole credit for the SB wins. It doesn’t matter who the defense or FG kicker did. Doesn’t matter how good his OL performed or Belicheck. It’s ONLY Brady. That’s where you and others fail. Does Tom Brady have 7 rings? Yes. Was it all because of him? No. He was part of a team that won.

Bill Russell has 11 rings in the NBA. Ever hear his name mentioned in the GOAT debate? Nope.
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Yes, actually.

He's not the first name off the tongue, but he does get mentioned.
 
#123
#123
I personally think Joe Montana was the greatest to ever do it.

Not to mention, he never lost a Super Bowl and was great underneath pressure.

Brady might have more impressive stats to back it up but in terms of talent, Montana is hard to beat.
 
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