Peyton Bradyized Ole Tom

#76
#76
Wireless1 said:
Oh contraire, I don't think anyone would disagree Brady is in the top tier of all time great QB's but to hands down call him the greatest is very debatable. Without free agency he might not even have been a starter. He "earned' his starting job due to an injury on an offensively loaded team. Bledsoe's contract versus Brady's had Drew packing. When Brady decided to leave NE, he chose the team with an outstanding defense, replacing the most intercepted QB in the league that still made the playoffs (BTW he was following Peyton's game plan with the Broncos)
Brady is very talented, but if he wasn't at one of the if not the most cheating franchises in all pro sports he would not have the rings or the records.
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Who do you argue was better and why?
 
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#77
#77
He has more playoff wins than all but three NFL franchises. He led the largest comeback in Super Bowl history. He won a Super Bowl at 43. He led the league in passing at 44. Everyone from Aaron Rodgers to Troy Aikman to all the defensive stars who played against him and are now commentators to pretty much anybody who knows anything about the game says he's the GOAT and in a class all his own.

There's opinion, and then there's just willfully lying for spite. There's nothing wrong with the former; the latter makes the world a worse place to be, and makes the person doing it look pretty dumb.
 
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#78
#78
ClearwaterVol said:
Who do you argue was better and why?
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There are a ton of QB's I think had more talent, Marino, Fouts, Archie Manning, even Randall Cunningham that never had the awards because they were one of twenty two.
I think some time in the future Brady, Manning, Bledsoe and Rodgers will all be pooled with Montana, Starr, Dawson and Bradshaw, as great QB's that played on great teams.....each with different talents and skills but who rose to the occasion in the best way they could.
 
#79
#79
Wireless1 said:
There are a ton of QB's I think had more talent, Marino, Fouts, Archie Manning, even Randall Cunningham that never had the awards because they were one of twenty two.
I think some time in the future Brady, Manning, Bledsoe and Rodgers will all be pooled with Montana, Starr, Dawson and Bradshaw, as great QB's that played on great teams.....each with different talents and skills but who rose to the occasion in the best way they could.
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Archie doesn't belong in that conversation. Marino and Fouts were two great qbs. Cunningham could have been an all time great but he couldn't stay healthy.

Bledsoe doesn't belong on that list unless you're planning to add Jeff George to it.

Rogers is an all time great. I just don't like him.

Manning and Brady are still the top two in my opinion because they combined high levels of talent with an unmatched work ethic and the longevity to play at a high level for a long time. I place Brady above Manning because he's a winner and did better for longer.
 
#80
#80
Boston Vol said:
That 2006 Colts defense was ranked poorly during the regular season because Bob Sanders missed most of it due to injuries. When he came back they dominated on defense during the postseason. The Colts had the number two ranked defense in the league in 2005 and lost their first playoff game at home to Pittsburgh. They had the number one ranked defense in the league in 2007, and lost their first playoff game at home to San Diego. Manning had a top ten defense five times in Indianapolis and lost his first playoff in four of those years.
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Absolutely not TB in the playoffs. Still,amazing how my Colts only have 1 in that period. Should have had at least 4.
 
#81
#81
ClearwaterVol said:
Archie doesn't belong in that conversation. Marino and Fouts were two great qbs. Cunningham could have been an all time great but he couldn't stay healthy.

Bledsoe doesn't belong on that list unless you're planning to add Jeff George to it.

Rogers is an all time great. I just don't like him.

Manning and Brady are still the top two in my opinion because they combined high levels of talent with an unmatched work ethic and the longevity to play at a high level for a long time. I place Brady above Manning because he's a winner and did better for longer.
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Oops, I meant Drew Brees, If Archie had free agency available you'd be singing a different tune. He was a fantastic quarterback, just tied to a horrible franchise.
Looking through today's lens I agree Brady and Peyton appear to be the greatest, but the rules have been modified to permit their numbers. How many knee surgeries would they have playing in the Namath era?
Without Peyton's neck injury, or had Tom's knee injury been worse.......
 
#82
#82
While Peyton is my GOAT QB, Brady does have bragging rights and the hardware to be considered the GOAT for non UT fans. I get it. But now, with Brady's talk of unretiring, he has attained another acronym:
MNPOAT
Most Narcissistic Person of All Time ​
 
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#83
#83
BigOrangeTrain said:
And Brady never stopped a single offensive person from scoring for the other team. See how that works? Do you see why it’s a ridiculous statement to say Brady is the GOAT? It’s a dumb assumption.

Look at the SB against Atlanta. The Falcons made the Pats look dumb in the first half. What happened? Was it all Brady? No it wasn’t. Had Belichek and the defense not adjusted the Pats may have suffered the worst SB loss ever. Against the Rams in 2019. If the Rams even score half of their season average, they win. Against the Chiefs, Brady’s teams defense played what might be considered the greatest SB ever. Holding Mahomes to ZERO TDS. I can go on and on.

You just refuse to see it. As great as Brady is, he has benefitted GREATLY from a great coaching staff and team. You think the Pats win it all in 2001, 03 and 04 without their defense? No way. Nor do they win them without Brady.
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QB is the hardest position to play in all of sports and he excelled at it more than any other player in the history of the game. I don’t know what else to tell you.

Your entire argument is based on the premise that no athlete in team sports can claim any individual achievement because other players are involved in their success. That’s just an absurd stance to take. Using that argument, no one can claim Peyton Manning was a better QB than Gaurantano because they played with different offensive weapons, different defenses, etc.

Is that really where you want to go?
 
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#84
#84
ClearwaterVol said:
Archie doesn't belong in that conversation. Marino and Fouts were two great qbs. Cunningham could have been an all time great but he couldn't stay healthy.

Bledsoe doesn't belong on that list unless you're planning to add Jeff George to it.

Rogers is an all time great. I just don't like him.

Manning and Brady are still the top two in my opinion because they combined high levels of talent with an unmatched work ethic and the longevity to play at a high level for a long time. I place Brady above Manning because he's a winner and did better for longer.
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The word TALENT. What does it mean? Speed, arm strength, touch, smarts, understanding the route tree ?????
It's subjective and based on how one defines the word.

Athletic and talented are completely different.
 
#87
#87
Boston Vol said:
You think that the 2001 Patriots were an offensively loaded team? Kevin Faulk, JR Redmond, Troy Brown, David Patten, Jermaine Wiggins. Wow what a stacked roster. They put the 80s 49ers to shame.
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Brady did it with a consistently rotating cast of characters. There were two real constants Brady and Belichick. Peyton had a rather consistent cast of offensive weapons over his career. I would argue he had more talent on that 2021 Bucs team than any team in New England.
 
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#88
#88
BigOrangeTrain said:
Really? Walsh won 8 games in 2 years before getting Montana. He want a legend in the NFL yet. So you are wrong.
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And? Bill Belichick was 42-58 with one playoff appearance in six years as a HC before Brady became his starting quarterback. He wasn’t a “legend” either.
 
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#90
#90
peaygolf said:
The word TALENT. What does it mean? Speed, arm strength, touch, smarts, understanding the route tree ?????
It's subjective and based on how one defines the word.

Athletic and talented are completely different.
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Being the GOAT requires more than TALENT. Jeff George was one of the most talented qbs to ever play, but he'll never be in the conversation. It requires HEART, HARD WORK and LUCK.
 
#92
#92
Boston Vol said:
You think that the 2001 Patriots were an offensively loaded team? Kevin Faulk, JR Redmond, Troy Brown, David Patten, Jermaine Wiggins. Wow what a stacked roster. They put the 80s 49ers to shame.
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All I can say was, I as leading my fantasy football league with Bledsoe, when he went down I replaced him with Brady and won the league.... of course I had Marvin Harrison to get a lot of Peyton points.
 
#93
#93
BigOrangeTrain said:
Yeah none of those things matter right?
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You won't be able to get through to them.
ClearwaterVol said:
Who is?

Brady is the all-time leader in passing yards, touchdowns and quarterback wins, as you may have guessed. He ranks in the top-five in every major passing category and holds every major postseason record.
This is a guy who in his 22 NFL seasons has been selected to the Pro Bowl a record-15 times. He's a three-time 1st-Team All-Pro selected, three-time AP MVP and a seven-time Super Bowl Champion, which is not only the most of any player, but it's also more than any franchise.

Tom Brady ranks first all-time in:
  • Wins: 243
  • Pro Bowls: 15
  • Super Bowl MVP Awards: 5
  • Starts: 316
  • Completions: 7,263
  • Attempts: 11,317
  • Passing Yards: 84,520
  • Passing Touchdowns: 624
  • Three-Touchdown Games: 101
  • Four-Touchdown Games: 39
In the postseason, he leads in:
  • Appearances (season): 19
  • Games Started: 47
  • Wins: 35
  • Super Bowl Appearances: 10
  • Super Bowl Wins: 7
  • Completions: 1,165
  • Passing Yards: 13,049
  • Passing Touchdowns: 86
  • Game-Winning Drives: 14
  • Fourth-Quarter Comebacks: 9
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You can give all the records, stats and achievements and paint the clearest picture to these guys and they'll refuse your rationale and logic. Thanks for the post though. I 100% agree with you along with the majority of most all people who keep up with football.
 
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#96
#96
Boston Vol said:
Sorry, he got to play for one of the greatest coaches of all time, had terrific offensive teammates, and had great defenses in all four of his super bowl years. He was clearly just a system quarterback who benefited from all of the talent that he had surrounding him.
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Lol. Belichek is arguably the best HC of all time. . Walsh has nothing on Belichek. Next ?
 
#99
#99
ABINGDON VOL FAN said:
I consider Belichek No. 1 so your point fails IMO.
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That’s not the point. If you’re going to penalize Brady for playing for the best(although Belichick isn’t) then you have to do the same for Montana. Walsh is unquestionably one of the five greatest coaches of all time. So obviously Montana greatly benefited from playing for Walsh.
 
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#100
#100
Boston Vol said:
That’s not the point. If you’re going to penalize Brady for playing for the best(although Belichick isn’t) then you have to do the same for Montana. Walsh is unquestionably one of the five greatest coaches of all time. So obviously Montana greatly benefited from playing for Walsh.
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Or Walsh benefitted from Montana. Montana was the best under pressure IMO regardless who his coach was. . I consider him the best. Staubach a close 2nd. Unitas before my time but the game was different back then too. He should be under consideration.
 
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