Pete Thamel article on payment of players

#26
#26
Good grief. I worked 18 years as RN. Mostly in Atlanta.. Dealt with those dudes. Then went back to college for degree in education. Dealt with younger, more cynical version in the school system,. All I can say is: guys! Don't prostitute yourselves by selling your names or imagines. Stay in school and get your education. That will pay off more than your name .
 
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#27
#27
Aladywhovolunteer said:
United States Congressman from Ohio 16 (I think) Anthony Gonzales (R) has been working on NIL in Congress since 2019. He was a wide receiver for Ohio State and the Indianapolis Colts. He has said the student athlete should be able to use NIL just like any other citizen but "NIL must never become a tool to buy players and it will unless it has guard rails. " Not sure where he got on his legislation. Maybe Thamel ought to contact Congrssman Gonzales...such a novel idea. Unfortunately Gonzales was one of nine Republicans to vote to impeach 45. Congressman Gonzales has announced he will not seek reelection
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Good info. I found this bill and I didn't read it yet but here it is as info.

Text - H.R.2841 - 117th Congress (2021-2022): Student Athlete Level Playing Field Act
 
#30
#30
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#31
#31
Aladywhovolunteer said:
United States Congressman from Ohio 16 (I think) Anthony Gonzales (R) has been working on NIL in Congress since 2019. He was a wide receiver for Ohio State and the Indianapolis Colts. He has said the student athlete should be able to use NIL just like any other citizen but "NIL must never become a tool to buy players and it will unless it has guard rails. " Not sure where he got on his legislation. Maybe Thamel ought to contact Congrssman Gonzales...such a novel idea. Unfortunately Gonzales was one of nine Republicans to vote to impeach 45. Congressman Gonzales has announced he will not seek reelection
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The last thing we need in football is the government. They f everything up.
 
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#33
#33
Just to clarify: in the last session, SCOTUS ruled 9-0 against the NCAA and in favor of student athletes for unlimited educational benefits. In other words, as an athlete you are entitled to the full cost of education. Need a computer the school should provide. An instrument to play in the band the school should provide.

This ruling had nothing to do with NIL. Nil started being a reality with Governor of California passed legislation recognizing NIL for athletes. Other states followed suit realizing their state universities would suffer in recruithg if NIL was not passed.

So, SCOTUs for unlimited educational benefits and state legislators for NIL.
 
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#34
#34
Aladywhovolunteer said:
Just to clarify: in the last session, SCOTUS ruled 9-0 against the NCAA and in favor of student athletes for unlimited educational benefits. In other words, as an athlete you are entitled to the full cost of education. Need a computer the school should provide. An instrument to play in the band the school should provide.

This ruling had nothing to do with NIL. Nil started being a reality with Governor of California passed legislation recognizing NIL for athletes. Other states followed suit realizing their state universities would suffer in recruithg if NIL was not passed.

So, SCOTUs for unlimited educational benefits and state legislators for NIL.
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You seem to have a good grasp. Wasn't that the ruling where Justice Kavanaugh essentially leaned toward players being considered employees of the schools?

As golfballs said above, NIL is nothing compared to revenue sharing.
 
#35
#35
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
You seem to have a good grasp. Wasn't that the ruling where Justice Kavanaugh essentially leaned toward players being considered employees of the schools?

As golfballs said above, NIL is nothing compared to revenue sharing.
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Yes. Kavanaugh wrote the majority opinion for 9-0 decision (very unusual). Of course this was full cost of education and not NIL.
 
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#36
#36
Cartervol said:
There was a reason they fought this for so long. Will change the sport to semi pro. They will have to restrict it to some point or it may basically ruin college football..
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I agree but how many P5 fb scholly aths enjoy going to class? Many would blow that off as a semi-pro until the NFL knocks!
 
#37
#37
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
@TNHopeful505
"NIL's just don't need to be given to individuals. They need to happen as teams, so that the wealth can be spread."

Two things:
1. Redistribution of wealth from those who can earn more to those who are smaller earners is not my favorite idea.
2. The moment teams spread the money around, the players are professionals. If the teams pay a stipend, they are professionals.

If they're professionals, they organize, unionize, and drive up their "stipend."

If you're going to tell Ewers he can't make too much money, why can't I tell you how much money you can make also?
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I'm pretty sure that players are already getting a stipend as it is, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

But yes, you make some good points. Again, like I said, there are no right answers. It's an absolute mess.
 
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#38
#38
TNHopeful505 said:
I'm pretty sure that players are already getting a stipend as it is, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

But yes, you make some good points. Again, like I said, there are no right answers. It's an absolute mess.
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Check the lady who posted up above. Interesting info about the SCOTUS ruling on full scholarship.

Quick reading has shown me that the NCAA rolled over on NIL after that ruling because they were scared of an antitrust lawsuit from players.

There IS now a class action lawsuit against the NCAA from previous NCAA players who were denied access to their NIL rights.
 
#39
#39
Juanita said:
okay, I am about to pizz a lot you folks off. I don't come into this forum because you know more than I do and bite my head off. Kinda like my ex. NO: collegiate students, hear me, students should not be compensated. They are there for an education. As Jimi said: cuse me while I kiss the sky.. If they want to sell their own image or body....it's like a whore.
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It’s my understanding the schools aren’t supposed to be directly involved with NIL in any way shape or form. Yes the athlete’s have an elevated platform due to playing for a team but at that point it is up to them to monetize it.

What is the difference between a college student who is a TikToker or YouTuber making 6 figures vs a an athlete promoting their own name, image, and likeness?

The universities have profited off these kids for decades.
 
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#40
#40
TNHopeful505 said:
There's no perfect solution, which is why the NCAA kept it as a total no for years. Once you open this box, it's hard to go back.

If I was doing it, I'd develop a farm league of 8 teams of 60 players each. Those 480 players would be 3 classes of 160 players, meaning 160 high school recruits are added each year. They are paid contracts for 3 years, and only three years. No NIL, no education, no nothing. They're professionals at that point. They will get coaching, evaluation, and play 3 years of 16 games, including playoffs. After those 3 years, they can declare for the NFL or they can move on, but 3 years, and that's it.

Meanwhile, the rest of the recruits that are left, get recruited by regular schools and go the regular college route, in which they stay for 3 years, and they get a stipend that is determined by leagues (Much like what Thamel is suggesting here).

NIL's just don't need to be given to individuals. They need to happen as teams, so that the wealth can be spread. And honestly, if I'm a businessman, I'd rather say "Here's a million dollars, let's split it 85 ways, and give $12,000 yearly to each Tennessee player in order to have them sign an occasional autograph, or an appearance for us," than to spend $1,000,000 on a Quinn Ewers who may transfer, or who may end up sucking. And of course, if multiple companies did that, then even if it was only a few thousand dollars, each player would end up making quite a nice paycheck, in addition to what they're already getting through their scholarship.

I don't know. I don't want college sports to be ruined, but I feel like its headed that way. When it becomes all about the money, it's just not going to be the same.
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I like the idea of distributing the $ evenly amongst the team. Problem is, players want to play for the team that pays the most. There would have to be a cap. Even the NFL, who has a longer track record of paying players has a cap And why? Because it keeps the teams competitive as much as it can. I fear college football will end up with a very few “haves” and a ton of “have nots”.
As any Vol fan who has been paying attention for the last decade knows, watching your team get blown out by the same team(s) year after year becomes no fun anymore and even to a lesser degree by the team that wins. The trick is to try and maintain some sort of parity, and that part of NIL wasn’t thought through AT ALL. To me, it has disaster and unintended consequences written all over it. Not to mention it waters down players pride in their school. That’s getting further away. The concept of a player declaring “I’m a VFL” won’t have the teeth it once had.
College football is forever changed. That’s a fact.
 
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#41
#41
VolBricks said:
Is that a cross between a Soccer mom and a runway model? Asking for a friend.
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No. Tell your firend it is a "college football does not need ideas from strategically-flopping-like-fish-for-red-cards morons" model. The only time soccer is ever exciting is when terrorists attack, fans brawl, or the stands collapse. The only thing innovative soccer ever did for football is with kick offs and field goals. That is all they had to offer. And thanks for that. But they can keep the rest.
 
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#42
#42
TNHopeful505 said:
NIL's just don't need to be given to individuals. They need to happen as teams, so that the wealth can be spread.
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I completely disagree with this statement. NIL stands for name, image, and likeness. Let's say player "Jocko Brutalski" is offered an NIL deal to film a commercial for Old Abe Lincoln's Gun Shop. Why on earth would money paid for his name be shared with the rest of his team? They didn't film the commercial. They don't have that beautiful name. Additionally, they most likely don't look like Jocko although there is sure to be someone in the look alike thread that could make a case. To take it further - targeted advertising based on the player's name would make it more ridiculous to share revenue. Jeremy Banks for 1st TN Bank. Jerome Carvin for Arbys. Trevon Flowers for FTD Florist. Kurott Garland at Christmas for Hobby Lobby. Roman Harrison for Sacred Heart Catholic Church. I'm sure Bumphus and Hooker could probably work a joint venture. But, why would any of them share money generated by their name with Chris Akporoghene?
 
#43
#43
Pete Thamel's essay betrays the same foolish assumption most of the media flapping heads makes - that popularity and attention given to college football is eternal and that supporters will tolerate every change regardless of how far it goes. I'm not even going to waste time on the part about a "bidding system" for rising high school players, but it's typical of these geniuses writing the articles.

This "give them X percent of everything" attitude people like Thamel want to hand out, will cut the head clean off college football. At that point they're just employees and it's just business. But with that change will come a wane in the sport's popularity. I promise you that the appetite of people to strongly support a team, to travel across the country, or spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars a year following this or that college team, will wane too. The motivations that lead people to support a group of young men who are playing under their school's banner is far different from the motivations that lead pro fans to support well paid employees doing their job for a professional sports team. When I think about all the marketing the schools do for the college teams, and how so much of the messaging is oriented toward the idea of being supportive of young people's endeavors -- well, kiss all that goodbye. You're gonna have a hard time selling anyone on being lenient or supportive of a person who's making good money. It's just not the same relationship. The tone is completely different.

I'm not writing this as some sort of jealous missive - if someone's making bank, hey whatever. The schools definitely played a role in bringing us to this point, and whatever's going to happen is going to happen at this rate. My point is just that the atmosphere of college sports is not at all comparable to the atmosphere of professional sports. The relationship between college fans and their schools, and pro fans and their chosen teams, is not the same, and Thamel is either completely indifferent or completely ignorant to that fact. The more you change it to just be professional sports - because that's what you want it to be - the faster you'll bury it in a grave. It will poison the well of the college sports atmosphere. It's inevitable, I suppose, with how many people want to push it that way, but the end will not be a good one.
 
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#45
#45
Aladywhovolunteer said:
Yes. Kavanaugh wrote the majority opinion for 9-0 decision (very unusual). Of course this was full cost of education and not NIL.
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Gorsuch wrote the majority opinion. Kavanaugh wrote a concurring opinion that went even further and put the NCAA on notice. He said in it even though the case brought before them was only about educational benefits, their ruling would have been the same had it been about pay. NIL is minor comparatively and an easy concession for the NCAA to make knowing what’s coming down the pipe.
 
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#46
#46
He wants to get congress involved? Those morons would find a way to screw up a wet dream. By the time they get through with it? God only knows how bad it will get messed up. Oh well, glad I got to enjoy it while it was still worth a damn.
 
#47
#47
The ruling concerned anti-trust law. That’s why the NCAA shortly after came out and suggested a restructuring where conferences could largely govern themselves. Therefore as long as there are some conferences where college athletes can get paid, then technically there would no longer be a monopsony in college athletics to prevent pay.

What would that look like? Very few athletic departments in the country could even support a model like that (and remain competitive - basically the top SEC and B1G programs). And it would come at a cost to other sports programs. If they are businesses as the Supreme Court says, when you consider title ix as a huge cost of doing business it’s a terrible model. Will be interesting to see how it pans out. but there’s no doubt it’s going to look far different than it does now
 
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#49
#49
Beyond NIL, will the NCAA be able to continue enforcing limits on years of eligibility or requirements for academic good standing? Lots of potential change on the horizon.
 
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