Perception versus reality

#26
#26
MikeHamiltonFan said:
Perception: UT has a kidnapper and rapist on the team.

Reality: This is not going away so Vol fans should care enough to be able to point people to the court docs. If you do not want to read them yourself, bottom line is that Hoods cousin got really mad after her boyfriend did a disgusting and rude prank to her. If you read it and are looking for the "kidnapping" part it is when they pick her up and carry her to 12 feet away while she is in the computer chair and the "rape" part has nothing to do with Daniel and in fact was gross to him and it is when the guy who she had been having lots of consensual sex with puts a plunger end with saran wrap in a place it should not go. Humiliating? Yes! Wrong and evil? Yes! It was mainly the fault in my eyes of the parents, but the 17 year old who the 14 year old was sleeping with certainly had a lot more say in the matter than the 13 year old boy.
To call an act that resulted in no physical injury, that involved no sex on the part of either aggressor "kidnapping and rape" does violence to those terms as they are traditionally understood. It reminds me of when in college someone who was drunk said they had been molested by a priest and when I said that was terrible they said "yeah the priest had me sit in his lap and a few times he slapped my butt." Wow...not cool and creepy, but not what I think of when I hear molestation.

From all accounts this young man is doing everything right today and has overcome quite a lot. The cousin has reconciled with him and wrote a letter urging UT to let him in. We do him a service every time we clear up the perception of this..
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Talk about screwed up perception. Tying someone up and sexually assaulting them with a plunger is not a "disgusting and rude prank". I read the court documents and you are downplaying this like it was crazy childish hijinks and was far from that.

I'm not saying the kid doesn't deserve a chance at playing football and getting his education, but your depiction of this is way off.
 
#27
#27
ZZ13 said:
As much as I have no interest in anything related to the state of Florida, including their state university, I must agree with LG on #1. I think Kiffin spoke first, thought second and then used "I meant to do that" as a convenient CYA. I am pleased to see he has already matured beyond that
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I DO believe that he meant to do that...that's who he is. Unless someone(cough:Slive) calls his hand, he will continue to be "who he is". Do I believe that he would do it again...yes sir, and it has worked well for him. In just a few years, he has become the HC for two storried FB programs..one NFL and one NCAA, at the ripe old age of 34 !!!!!
 
#32
#32
I could care less about what happened 6 months ago, that's in the past. Let's just win some ball games!
 
#34
#34
sorry to be off topic, but does anyone know what hotel the players are staying in tonight? Can't remember if it's the crown plaza or another downtown hotel that they usually stayed at in the past.
 
#35
#35
Mr. Two Bits said:
Talk about screwed up perception. Tying someone up and sexually assaulting them with a plunger is not a "disgusting and rude prank". I read the court documents and you are downplaying this like it was crazy childish hijinks and was far from that.

I'm not saying the kid doesn't deserve a chance at playing football and getting his education, but your depiction of this is way off.
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No screwed up perception is when a college football fan would use a story like this to try to gain some advantage on a message board. In my eyes your just sick. It has nothing to do with you, no one knows what it was like for the victim, or for hood who has to live with this everyday of his life knowing what people like you are saying about him. Some things are more important then football and rivalries, you need to understand that.
 
#36
#36
With all of the great publicity we got from his "mistakes", I guess it will now be a blueprint of how to get your program back into the public eye. Even if he doesn't win he sure had most recruits hoping for a call from Tennessee. I believe he just did things different than most are used to and that don't make it wrong. If he wins you definitely have to say he did it right.

lawgator1 said:
Good question. I don't know.

I personally just think he was very excited, and he just couldn't hide it. He lost control and you guys liked it.
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#37
#37
Whatever Lawgator.... Regardless of whether it was incidental or intentional, CLK got into Meyer's head so bad that he cried like a little girl to Slive. At least Spurrier was a big enough boy to spar with him and make things fun.

I'm not surprised by Meyer's narcissistic response... just amused.

Oh, another effect is that several highly regarded recruits including Bryce Brown absolutely LOVED the bravado of calling out the NC coach... They apparently don't give a whit whether the info was right or wrong only that CLK called him out and UM whined like a little girl.
 
#38
#38
Vol_atile said:
What was Nick Saban's record in the pros? What was Spurrier's record? What was Pete Carroll's? What was Lou Holtz'? It seems they did just fine.
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Spurrier and Holtz both were both established college coaches and won a National Championship before going the the NFL. Saban was a college coach for 20 years before he coached in the NFL. Pete Carroll was an NFL head coach with a winnng record in the NFL before going to USC.
 
#39
#39
Mr. Two Bits said:
Spurrier and Holtz both were both established college coaches and won a National Championship before going the the NFL. Saban was a college coach for 20 years before he coached in the NFL. Pete Carroll was an NFL head coach with a winnng record in the NFL before going to USC.
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What a worthless response. Every one of those men's results sucked in the NFL, period.

Fortunately, we have three or four UF clowns around here to remind us about the reality that your average fan is a sports idiot.
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#40
#40
Volfootball55 said:
No screwed up perception is when a college football fan would use a story like this to try to gain some advantage on a message board. In my eyes your just sick. It has nothing to do with you, no one knows what it was like for the victim, or for hood who has to live with this everyday of his life knowing what people like you are saying about him. Some things are more important then football and rivalries, you need to understand that.
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You have got to be kidding me with this post.

Did you even read the rationalization used to downplay this crime in the original post I was responding to? I'm not using it to gain any advantage on a message board. On the contrary, I find it repugnant that anyone tries to minimize this as some childish prank. I also said the kid deserves a second chance, but don't pretend this crime was 2 boys just goofing around.
 
#41
#41
BigPapaVol said:
What a worthless response. Every one of those men's results sucked in the NFL, period.

Fortunately, we have three or four UF clowns around here to remind us about the reality that your average fan is a sports idiot.
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It is a relevant response to this : In just a few years, he has become the HC for two storried FB programs..one NFL and one NCAA, at the ripe old age of 34 !!!!!.

My response was : ...and yet he is 5-15 nad has accomplished nothing. So your buddy tosses out thee other head coaches names who had plenty of experience and actaully had proven something.

Not my fault you aren't bright enough to comprehnd my response. Let me attempt to dumb it down for you.


Kiffin is 5-15 lifetime. Period. All of these coaches had previous head coaching experience in college. Kiffin None. Therefore he is 5-15 and has proven nothing.

Class dismissed.
 
#42
#42
Two bits, you seem to have your own agenda that NO ONE on this board agrees with, or even cares about. Simply put...we don't get your message. Maybe, your just too intelligent for us country boys. Maybe your time would be better served flying somewhere with birds of the same feather. Schools out forrrrr everrrr. :whistling:
 
#43
#43
Mr. Two Bits said:
You have got to be kidding me with this post.

Did you even read the rationalization used to downplay this crime in the original post I was responding to? I'm not using it to gain any advantage on a message board. On the contrary, I find it repugnant that anyone tries to minimize this as some childish prank. I also said the kid deserves a second chance, but don't pretend this crime was 2 boys just goofing around.
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Your wrong it was one 17 year old who did know what he was doing, and a 13 year old who didn't know what was going on. I have a 13 year old brother and I would expect nothing less then him not knowing what to do in that situation. The crime might of be heinous, but from all indications hoods part was not.
 
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#44
#44
Volfootball55 said:
Your wrong it was one 17 year old who did know what he was doing, and a 13 year old who didn't know what was going on. I have a 13 year old brother and I would expect nothing less then him not knowing what to do in that situation. The crime might of be heinous, but from all indications hoods part was not.
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I have read the court documents and have drawn my conclusions based upon the facts. I disagree that a 13 year old doesn't know any better. Once again as I have posted several times now, I still think he deserves a shot at playing football and going to UT, UF or wherever. I just don't agree with minimizing his role because it fits an agenda.
 
#45
#45
lawgator1 said:
Agree with 2 and 3. Number 4 only time will tell.

But the first one is pure caca. I don't think UT fans realize how silly they look when they claim that Kiffin was as mouthy as he was because he was just trying to get the school in the paper to help recruiting and generate excitement. He was mouthy because he didn't know any better.

Having said that, it won't matter if he is successful. If he does not turn things around, then it will come back to haunt him and UT.
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lawgator1 said:
Yes, it is.






By popular demand.





I can compromise and agree to that.
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Mr. Two Bits said:
I agree with LG. No way were LK's missteps and verbal gaffes some grand design to generate buzz. Trying to pass it off as such is just plain goofy.
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lawgator1 said:
Good question. I don't know.

I personally just think he was very excited, and he just couldn't hide it. He lost control and you guys liked it.
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Well you gators have your opinion and we have ours but the one thing you can't deny is for whatever reason he was so brash it damn sure worked from the recruiting standpoint cause I challenge you to name me any other team that has ever finished 2 games under .500 and 3 months later sign a top 10 recruiting class including the #1 player in the country.
 
#46
#46
Volfootball55 said:
No screwed up perception is when a college football fan would use a story like this to try to gain some advantage on a message board. In my eyes your just sick. It has nothing to do with you, no one knows what it was like for the victim, or for hood who has to live with this everyday of his life knowing what people like you are saying about him. Some things are more important then football and rivalries, you need to understand that.
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Don't let this DB get you worked up, he's merely gator trash, just like *most* of the rest of them. He's only here to stir the pot, to date he has brought nothing but instigation to the board.

You can usually make him go away by stating that he named his username after an 80 yr old male cheerleader...



**I say "most" of them because the best man at my wedding is a UF alum, and he's a good guy...his friends are DBs like this guy though. and LG can be alright...sometimes...when he tries real hard. And the AFL poster seems alright.
 
#47
#47
Mr. Two Bits said:
It is a relevant response to this : In just a few years, he has become the HC for two storried FB programs..one NFL and one NCAA, at the ripe old age of 34 !!!!!.

My response was : ...and yet he is 5-15 nad has accomplished nothing. So your buddy tosses out thee other head coaches names who had plenty of experience and actaully had proven something.

Not my fault you aren't bright enough to comprehnd my response. Let me attempt to dumb it down for you.


Kiffin is 5-15 lifetime. Period. All of these coaches had previous head coaching experience in college. Kiffin None. Therefore he is 5-15 and has proven nothing.

Class dismissed.
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So what was the point of all the timelines? Any whatsoever, or just more evidence of your penchant for worthless stats.

Class? Remember that only mental giants like yourself an get into UF. The rest of us have to sit back and await lessons like the above bit of genius.
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#48
#48
tm3 said:
good points.

imo the people who frequent this board are generally much more football savvy than the "average" fan. i was amazed last year that most UT fans i encountered outside of volnation were adamant supporters of CPF and believed that he had been done wrong. nothing wrong with that per se but their reasoning and understanding of the situation came up short.
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When speaking to a Bammer, the "did nothing wrong" has nothing to do with "I'm a supporter and hope he is our coach froever". Those two things are mutually exclusive. I know of very few knowlegable fans who DID'NT want Fulmer gone.
 
#49
#49
lawgator1 said:
Agree with 2 and 3. Number 4 only time will tell.

But the first one is pure caca. I don't think UT fans realize how silly they look when they claim that Kiffin was as mouthy as he was because he was just trying to get the school in the paper to help recruiting and generate excitement. He was mouthy because he didn't know any better.
Having said that, it won't matter if he is successful. If he does not turn things around, then it will come back to haunt him and UT.
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That may well be the case.....reminds me of you, what's your excuse?
 
#50
#50
You 2 geniuses in FL, tell me what he has been mouthy about? He has already said the Urban cheating comment was not meant for the public to hear. It was meant for a group of boosters. I would think he would have liked to take that back or at least confiscate a few video cameras.Yet you say he didn't know any better.He has no experience.I guess Saban didn't either when he got caught telling all those off color jokes. But I guess that's OK, he has experience.He never said the recruit would be pumping gas at So.Carolina, per the recruit.

Now,is Kiffin a lightening rod? most definitely. The national media has blown some of this out of proportion.We've had 6 secondary violations in 8 months, a lot of high profile programs have had more than that,yet you never hear about it. Why is that? ESPN talks about us just about as much as any team(except FL & USC). Bryce Brown pretty much made it clear that TN wasn't on his radar until Kiffin grabbed his attention.

By the way, did you hear that Bryce was the #1 recruit in the nation last year? I'm glad Kiffin has no experience & doesn't know any better
 
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