Perception of Butch

[screenthis]

The only perception I care about Butch is his W-L record at Tennessee. I think we all can agree that Butch is a great guy, is passionate and loves Tennessee football, and mostly gets a long well with the players. He has improved our academics and kept the image of the program mainly clean. Plus he recruits very well. However, simply being a good guy does not result in wins.

I think I speak for a large portion of this board when I say we are tired of Butch's coach speak and lack of accountability. I am by no means saying he should talk trash about other programs or throw our coaches/players under the bus. But c'mon man, when we play like crap admit it, when the play calling is terrible admit it, when a player screws up admit it, when you get out-coached admit it, etc, etc. etc. I want to see some fire and answers with solutions to our problems. I hate how he simply glosses over some terrible tendencies that have grown and not been fixed in this program. You can watch the games and he rarely gets in the players faces or fired up when they make mistakes. Furthermore, I understand you have brought stability and we are on the verge of being bowl eligible for three straight years, however, that is no excuse to get beat by the worst USC team in years and give away the SEC East. He continues to mention one-on-one battles and 1-0 for this week, however, your coached players are continuously getting beat at one-on-one, injured, etc. I think Butch has earned the right to stay and I do not believe he should be fired, but he needs to put his ego to the side and realize that his current philosophy is not working. It would restore a lot of my faith in him if he made a lot of necessary decision for the growth of the program this offseason. I just hope the recruits haven't begin to peg him as a guy who promises this and that, but can't coach his players up on the field and doesn't have a competitive X and O mindset. We have all seen it, Butch and this staff are constantly being out-coached by our opponents. And arguably we are wasting a lot of talent that we have at our disposal. Regardless, my loyalties lie with the University of Tennessee and our players. Go Vols!

I appreciate the objective tone of your post (not just a 'I don't like the coach' post). And, I agree with much that you say. Butch did show a willingness to change bringing in a new DC last year. I do agree about the need for real change on Offense. Top recruits won't look at ours and feel confident. And, on field coaching is clearly still an area for improvement. Pair his recruiting with great coaching? Oh my...

 

[TennesseeTarheel]

My image of Butch...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SYm4nCsFjtQ

 

[volfan102455]

Supporting the team is not compatible with supporting a coach who isn't getting the job done. And before you respond... just do what Jones asks and look at his "body of work" this season.

Well we end up 9-3, 10-3 after a bowl game with wins over Florida and Georgia - with all the injuries that have occurred - I think he is doing just fine in terms of wins and losses.

 

[Burger]

So does the media not watch other games? Double digit leads with one team either coming back or losing it are very common in college football. It is the nature of the offenses that are played.

A few examples ...

Clemson vs Louisville
Ole Miss vs FSU
UNC vs FSU
Washington vs Utah
Penn State vs OSU
Nebraska vs Indiana
Texas vs Notre Dame
Baylor vs Iowa State

The point is that everything the media slams CBJ for, there are other coaches and games where similar situations have happened.

I think reaction of fans plays a large part in all this. Media is looking for stories and because our fan base is so quick to turn on the coaches and team we make it easy for them.

With Botch, it's more than once occurrence. None of those games are a trend for those coaches like with Botch.

 

[sjt18]

Well we end up 9-3, 10-3 after a bowl game with wins over Florida and Georgia - with all the injuries that have occurred - I think he is doing just fine in terms of wins and losses.

Since the 1st year, which year has UT's results under Jones not been hurt by abnormally high injuries?

How long will you be OK with Jones losing at least one game per year that he should have won while seldom winning games he should have lost?

If you are OK with 2nd tier and looking up at UGA, UF, Bama.... then your argument works just fine. We'll just have to disagree about what we expect. But if you believe UT should expect championships then he is NOT doing just fine.

 

[TheEndlessEnigma]

I think that Butch is losingh in the court of public opinion. He has made himself out to be something he isn't.

 

[SobeVol]

butch's perception is solely dependent upon what is displayed on the field.

Right now it is undisciplined and mistake prone and offensively unimaginative.

He better find a way to inject some adrenaline in the offense or recruiting, wins and perception will tank

A new OC is a great start

 

[EZE]

Why do you think that? You don't think other programs make honest assessments about which coaches they think pose a threat and which can be taken advantage of?

Where did I say that Jones had accomplished nothing?


He has underperformed his talent and opportunities in each of his years at UT.

He left a win on the field against a vastly inferior Vandy team and inexplicably played Peterman at UF to lose to Muschamp's 4-8 Gators in year one.

In year two, he again lost a game at home to UF with Muschamp at the helm that he should have won. He also lost to a very beatable Mizzou team at home.

In year 3, he left wins on the field vs OU, UF, and Ark... in good measure because of in game coaching.

This year, the play speaks for itself. It is almost wrong to call the ASU game a win. This team has yet to play with any level of consistency or execution. They lost to USCe and Muschamp again in spite of them having the worst roster in the SEC and starting a kid that should be a Sr in HS at QB.

If this is what you were looking for in 4 years from Jones.... then we just have different expectations.

Reading comprehension just escapes you.

 

[tvolsfan]

i agree. it's plainly obvious from the reaction to winning the GA and FL games that what he's said publicly is hardly how he felt privately.

so, understanding that to be the case, it does make you wonder how he'd really be under real pressure. this year everyone was pumping sunshine up our butt in the off season.

that won't be the case next off season. actually, it will probably put him in a very comfortable position...bunker mentality, us against the world....a role he'll likely thrive in given his tendency to put up walls against the media and fans.

His team most definitely hasn't been able to handle pressure of high expectations. That's on him.

 

[tvolsfan]

i think most everyone knows this. i'm not calling for his head. cause i know it's not going to happen. i also know that this will end, and when it does, we'll be back in rebuild mode. it's how we do things.

Yup. It's a nice way of saying we do things poorly.

 

[Burger]

Yup. It's a nice way of saying we do things poorly.

Not necessarily. There's a lot of good coaches on the market.

 

[Plano Vol]

Some of the stuff on here describes Fulmer as well as Butch. We all saw what happened to Phil when Cut left.

Butch needs to find his Cutcliffe.....the sooner the better. But only if Butch will let the OC do his thing...........if Butch meddles too much, there will be trouble.

 

[tvolsfan]

Not necessarily. There's a lot of good coaches on the market.

I agree. When I (and I believe Jake) say we're doing it poorly, we mean we shouldn't be waiting until we're back to 6-7 before we make a coaching change. Ideally, we would have added Butch to the list of coaches who have been fired after a loss to South Carolina. The current state of a roster is far better than it will be when we are actually looking for a new coach.

 

[JonGrudensAgent]

Two seasons in a row he has taken a beating in the court of public opinion.

With the turnovers, penalties, sloppy play, and the Hurd fiasco, I'd say he lost some equity with the team as well this season.

This team hasn't been remotely focused all season. The things you could count on under Jones until 2016 would be the team playing hard and playing smart.

 

[Burger]

I agree. When I (and I believe Jake) say we're doing it poorly, we mean we shouldn't be waiting until we're back to 6-7 before we make a coaching change. Ideally, we would have added Butch to the list of coaches who have been fired after a loss to South Carolina. The current state of a roster is far better than it will be when we are actually looking for a new coach.

Very true.

 

[LA Vol]

IDT Dooley's loss at UK was worse than Jones' loss at SCAR. Both were inexcusable losses to an indisputably inferior team and both had major repercussions. If anything, losing to SCAR was worse because the team was coming off a bye week and the stakes were higher.

 

[sjt18]

Reading comprehension just escapes you.

No. Not really.

 

[sjt18]

IDT Dooley's loss at UK was worse than Jones' loss at SCAR. Both were inexcusable losses to an indisputably inferior team and both had major repercussions. If anything, losing to SCAR was worse because the team was coming off a bye week and the stakes were higher.

And the disparity of talent was greater.

 

[greenbacknative]

A little disappointed with Jones and the team so I tried to wait until it wouldn't just be an emotional reaction.

But personally, my mom who lived with us declined and then died from lung cancer last month. We had to do some traveling back to NC for her memorial.

Work has been a bear too. We're dealing with some changes in response to market conditions that are very difficult.

Probably more than you wanted.... but that's me, right?

If you're a believer, please keep me in your prayers.

Cancer is a terrible thing to go thru... for individuals and for their families. I fortunately came thru my battle with it this year and am in remission. I cant help but think about how my wife talked about being helpless when someone you love is sick you can't do anything for them. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family..

 

[Cartervol]

Well this was the year all the expectations were Atlanta or it was going to be a letdown.. Most picked Tennessee this year because of the players returning.. Also a senior QB that was outplayed by a freshman last week. The coaching hasn't been good either though and that's on Jones. My personal perception is that he's a little in over his head. We'll see how this year finishes out. Right now they way they're playing they could easily drop another game, maybe two. The sloppiness is just hard to explain, they don't look prepared to play sometimes..

 

[tbones0711]

I haven't said much on the subject since the South Carolina loss.

I'm not happy but I like to be able to completely identify a problem.
With Dooley, it was obvious and a consistent decline. What I can't quite put my finger on with Jones, is the consistent rise up until this season. Nothing changed on offense, yet we look like a fraction of what we were last year.
If there were a new OC or new scheme, I would understand, but I just don't. The people who love to trash him just act like it has been this bad but that's not true. Last year's offense would have destroyed Ohio and definitely have won against South Carolina.
I just want to understand what has happened before saying much more.

Anyway, if he does have to go, I like the way they Fade Route posted in another thread - if it's his peak, so be it. I will thank him for getting us out of the crap we had fallen into.

I will not sit behind the keyboard and run my mouth and call him names, like the trashier posters on here. Unlike our previous coach, he has not thrown the players under the bus nor ruined relationships with high school coaches. He doesn't deserve the sh*t even if he isn't the right guy to get us in championship form.

One piece of the puzzle was spoken by Debord when he spoke at Knxvlle Qtrbk Club earlier this week. Defenses are resorting to more sophisticated,and disguised fronts which are confusing our OL and QB. UT takes a little while to adjust.....thus the slow starts.

 

[Hands]

Yea. Too complicated for a coach who the game has passed him by. What was botch thinking when he hired him. If botch doesn't fire Deborg and o-lone coach then he won't last pass next year. Terrible job all year by butch and it is getting worse. He is starting to lose the players and we know what comes after that. More losses.

 

[volfannbama]

Does Jones want to survive? Will another loss this year change his situation headed into next year? Does Jones' survival likely depend on next year? Will another beatdown by Bama in the SEC CG help Jones survive? Will he head into next year out of excuses and on a hot seat?

Finally, based on what we've seen, can Jones O possibly work with an inexperienced QB?

Butch gets one more year regardless of what happens the rest of the way. If we win out, his job isnt even in question, you simply do not fire a coach that has added to his win total every thing year. We are not going to the SECCG do it doesnt matter, but if we go, great. If we lose, doesnt matter. Only way he heads into next year on the hot seat is dropping one of the last four games.

Dont know if his system works with a new qb, it worked ok with Dobbs, when he had little experience. My guess is we get a new OC this year anyway.

 

[tennrich1]

Asked a buddy who is the SID at another SEC school if Butch is respected around the league. His replied, "No. Hype man."

I hope I am wrong, but I fear we have peaked with him.

Glad he's just SID. I know a couple of those guys and they can kinda say crazy stuff. Wouldn't put to much stock in what SID says.

 

[sjt18]

Butch gets one more year regardless of what happens the rest of the way. If we win out, his job isnt even in question, you simply do not fire a coach that has added to his win total every thing year. We are not going to the SECCG do it doesnt matter, but if we go, great. If we lose, doesnt matter. Only way he heads into next year on the hot seat is dropping one of the last four games.

Dont know if his system works with a new qb, it worked ok with Dobbs, when he had little experience. My guess is we get a new OC this year anyway.

You just demonstrated perfectly the type of complacency that keeps UT from becoming a championship level program.