Perception of Butch

[cbrown]

Asked a buddy who is the SID at another SEC school if Butch is respected around the league. His replied, "No. Hype man."

I hope I am wrong, but I fear we have peaked with him.

 

[McDad]

...and Dooley was praised by other SEC coaches. Point is, I want opponents saying negative things; not positive things.

 

[EZE]

What the he!! would a SID know about actual coaching. The jury is still out on Butch IMO, but your buddies opinion means nothing.

 

[volsailgate]

Meh, the meme among other fanbases right now is Tennessee always says "next year" then craps the bed. It's easy to hate on a team that had it's worst stretch in a 100+ year history during the past 9 years. Growing up in the 90's, I never knew Bama to be good so they were that easy win in October for 8-9 years to me.

Mixed feelings on Butch

It's very reassuring to hear that this week's controversy was regarding Hurd being a punk and not that the entire team was in rebellion and quitting like initial reports indicated

On the one hand, he brought our program out of the abyss, which was no small feat. Dooley left this program in complete and utter ruin. Other coaches didn't want to touch this program with a 10 foot pole.

Butch has demonstrated continued linear improvement from Season 1 to Season 4. You have to give it to him for righting the ship and bringing in some top 5 classes

At the same time, a lot of question marks concerning his offensive scheme, his DeBored hire, his lack of in-game adjustments, and his inability to develop players. We lost a lot of close games in the past 2 years that shouldn't have been losses. Also wonder what's going on with the slow starts all year and playing to the talent level of the opponent.

If Butch drops another one in November, he'll have lost me entirely. Depends how the rest of this year pans out and what next year looks like. If the South Carolina game was a fluke, he's still alive. If the team gives up on Butch, we'll be looking for a coach come next December

 

[BigOrangeVols]

What the he!! would a SID know about actual coaching. The jury is still out on Butch IMO, but your buddies opinion means nothing.

The jury is in and jury says guilty. lol

 

[Nash_Vol97]

I agree that he is the hype man and yeah, maybe he has peaked. I still think if he can put aside his ego than he still has a chance. Go out and get a proven OC and let him take some of Butchs scheme and some of his own and mold it into a scheme that will benefit the players we have. Crazy, I know. Building a scheme to benefit the players you have? Who does that!?

I look at it like this. Dabo Swinney was regarded just like Butch. A clemson booster said in an article I read once that said "Swinney is the cheerleader, Venables is the coach." We already have one stellar coach in Shoop. (even if his stats this year aren't very good, just look at the injuries. What DC would have good stats with our injury list?) IF he hires a proven OC that has some imagination then hey, who knows what could happen? He could be the next Dabo. Give up some control, keep recruiting and ride the wave.

Now will Butch do that? I doubt it. The man wants to win his way more than he wants to just win. IMO.

 

[90 Vol]

What the he!! would a SID know about actual coaching. The jury is still out on Butch IMO, but your buddies opinion means nothing.

I agree that the jury is still out on Butch. However, I'm concerned that it's year 4 and the jury is still out...or do we just not like the verdict.

 

[The Tall Gguy]

Yeah...it is amazing the jury can still be out over halfway through year 4. But, hey it is what it is.

We will see if many keep their word about supporting the coaches after this year. I fear we drop at least 1 more.

We will see if the "I'll support Butch and Company no matter what" group changes their tune.

We will see the "If Butch and Company doesn't win 9-10 games They've lost me" group keeps their word.

We will see if the "Fahr Butch and Company" group changes their mind if we win out.

We will see a lot.

 

[sjt18]

...and Dooley was praised by other SEC coaches. Point is, I want opponents saying negative things; not positive things.

He was praised early.... not toward the end.

Jones to this point is far more hype than performance. Not surprising if someone actually said what the OP suggests.... and they aren't wrong.

 

[volsailgate]

I agree that he is the hype man and yeah, maybe he has peaked. I still think if he can put aside his ego than he still has a chance. Go out and get a proven OC and let him take some of Butchs scheme and some of his own and mold it into a scheme that will benefit the players we have. Crazy, I know. Building a scheme to benefit the players you have? Who does that!?

I look at it like this. Dabo Swinney was regarded just like Butch. A clemson booster said in an article I read once that said "Swinney is the cheerleader, Venables is the coach." We already have one stellar coach in Shoop. (even if his stats this year aren't very good, just look at the injuries. What DC would have good stats with our injury list?) IF he hires a proven OC that has some imagination then hey, who knows what could happen? He could be the next Dabo. Give up some control, keep recruiting and ride the wave.

Now will Butch do that? I doubt it. The man wants to win his way more than he wants to just win. IMO.

I agree that Debored needs to go but DeBored is simply calling plays in Butch's offensive scheme. Butch has to want to change

I also wonder whether changing schemes/OCs will make it hard for the players to keep adjusting

 

[sjt18]

What the he!! would a SID know about actual coaching. The jury is still out on Butch IMO, but your buddies opinion means nothing.

They would know what people within their own athletic department say about opposing programs and coaches.... including the football staff.

 

[vol-un-tear]

Does he need to be liked? Who likes Saban?

 

[BeecherVol]

...and Dooley was praised by other SEC coaches. Point is, I want opponents saying negative things; not positive things.

That has some truth in it. But respect comes in different forms as well. Meyer and Saban by most counts are very well respected coaches because of their success, outside of that a lot of people don't like them for various reasons. Some because they don't beat them. I don't think the Dooley praise by outsiders had to do with their respect for his coaching abilities.

Jones by most measures works hard and says what everyone wants to hear for the most part. I just see him as a mediocre coach in the toughest conference in college football. He has done a good job of masking that by being a good PR guy but that is starting to run its course and the expectations are catching up to his abilities.

 

[The Tall Gguy]

Bama fans, that's who likes Saban.

 

['Boro-vol]

Does he need to be liked? Who likes Saban?

No...but respected, or feared would be nice.

 

[chargervol]

I haven't said much on the subject since the South Carolina loss.

I'm not happy but I like to be able to completely identify a problem.
With Dooley, it was obvious and a consistent decline. What I can't quite put my finger on with Jones, is the consistent rise up until this season. Nothing changed on offense, yet we look like a fraction of what we were last year.
If there were a new OC or new scheme, I would understand, but I just don't. The people who love to trash him just act like it has been this bad but that's not true. Last year's offense would have destroyed Ohio and definitely have won against South Carolina.
I just want to understand what has happened before saying much more.

Anyway, if he does have to go, I like the way they Fade Route posted in another thread - if it's his peak, so be it. I will thank him for getting us out of the crap we had fallen into.

I will not sit behind the keyboard and run my mouth and call him names, like the trashier posters on here. Unlike our previous coach, he has not thrown the players under the bus nor ruined relationships with high school coaches. He doesn't deserve the sh*t even if he isn't the right guy to get us in championship form.

 

[LocoVol]

The moves he does or doent make this off season will define him. Has he learned from the past or not?

 

[Nash_Vol97]

I agree that Debored needs to go but DeBored is simply calling plays in Butch's offensive scheme. Butch has to want to change

I also wonder whether changing schemes/OCs will make it hard for the players to keep adjusting

Couldn't agree more with butch has to want to change. I just don't think he does. He want's to win with HIS scheme. If he does put aside his ego and brings in someone that can just tweak his scheme, I do think it could work. If it isn't a brand new scheme that could make it much easier for the players to adjust as well.

 

[Boca Vol]

Meh, the meme among other fanbases right now is Tennessee always says "next year" then craps the bed. It's easy to hate on a team that had it's worst stretch in a 100+ year history during the past 9 years. Growing up in the 90's, I never knew Bama to be good so they were that easy win in October for 8-9 years to me.

Mixed feelings on Butch

It's very reassuring to hear that this week's controversy was regarding Hurd being a punk and not that the entire team was in rebellion and quitting like initial reports indicated

On the one hand, he brought our program out of the abyss, which was no small feat. Dooley left this program in complete and utter ruin. Other coaches didn't want to touch this program with a 10 foot pole.

Butch has demonstrated continued linear improvement from Season 1 to Season 4. You have to give it to him for righting the ship and bringing in some top 5 classes

At the same time, a lot of question marks concerning his offensive scheme, his DeBored hire, his lack of in-game adjustments, and his inability to develop players. We lost a lot of close games in the past 2 years that shouldn't have been losses. Also wonder what's going on with the slow starts all year and playing to the talent level of the opponent.

If Butch drops another one in November, he'll have lost me entirely. Depends how the rest of this year pans out and what next year looks like. If the South Carolina game was a fluke, he's still alive. If the team gives up on Butch, we'll be looking for a coach come next December

That may have been true on signing day but I'd wager a tidy sum those classes wouldn't rank anywhere near top 5 now.

 

[McDad]

He was praised early.... not toward the end.

Jones to this point is far more hype than performance. Not surprising if someone actually said what the OP suggests.... and they aren't wrong.

Where ya been, Slacker?

I posted some props to you in the Dobbs interceptions thread.

 

[vol-un-tear]

No...but respected, or feared would be nice.

Agree he has some image problems especially now. He sure looked good after beating Florida and Georgia.

 

[90 Vol]

That has some truth in it. But respect comes in different forms as well. Meyer and Saban by most counts are very well respected coaches because of their success, outside of that a lot of people don't like them for various reasons. Some because they don't beat them. I don't think the Dooley praise by outsiders had to do with their respect for his coaching abilities.

Jones by most measures works hard and says what everyone wants to hear for the most part. I just see him as a mediocre coach in the toughest conference in college football. He has done a good job of masking that by being a good PR guy but that is starting to run its course and the expectations are catching up to his abilities.

I agree. We could still be successful if Butch would hire top notch assistants/coordinators and give them control of the X and O stuff. He would then be a CEO type coach that's good at recruiting, PR, and cliches.

 

[fade route]

Butch reminds me a little of Houston Nutt. Loves the school, good recruiter, can pump up the fanbase, but a slave to cliches and not a very good game day coach.

 

[BenGrimm]

I questioned Dooley after the U.K. Loss but was open to giving him one more year to turn it around. When he came out of a bye with a totally unprepared team in Starksville I jumped ship. That cemented it for me. I was ready for him to be fired st that point.

The SC loss isn't quite as. As as Dooley's UK loss but coming off a bye and so much on line, it's pretty damning. I have my doubts he will get us to championship level with any type of consistency.

Doesn't mean I want him fired yet.

I still think we win out. It would t surprise me one bit if the Hurd exodus doesn't pull this team to get her and they play their best football down the stretch.

 

[landscapingvol]

Well he has beaten UGA two years in row, just beat UF, is 3-1 vs SC, 3-0 vs UK, and 2-1 vs Vandy. Unless it is the athletic department at Mizzou which I doubt because they are dreadful now, not sure any other SEC East coach could criticize him at the moment. If it is a Bammer, I could care less.