Per Hubbs, "lack of depth biggest concern for this team"

If the entire 3 deep on defense quit tomorrow Jones could blast an email across campus and have more "depth" than he could shake a stick at, given the definition. Thats why #s themselves are irrelevant. You have a quality problem at that point.

That's why at most schools not named Alabama, 'depth' means your 2-deep because that is where you have quality players with enough talent and experience to plug into effectively be plugged into a spot. Once you get into the 3-deep and below at most schools you are dealing with walkons and guys who never get snaps outside of an occasional practice squad.
 
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If the entire 3 deep on defense quit tomorrow Jones could blast an email across campus and have more "depth" than he could shake a stick at, given the definition. Thats why #s themselves are irrelevant. You have a quality problem at that point.

Agree. And if you have a quality problem, what else do you have? A depth problem.

For example, right now, on campus, in Spring practice, we have 7 running backs....John Kelly, CFA.......and James Christian, Ramsey Hailey, Stedman Love, Taeler Dowdy and Chip Omer.

So, that's got to be the deepest running back corps in college football. Who else has SEVEN running backs ready to go, ready to play? We've gotta have the best running back group in the country, hands down. Who'd have ever thought we'd be 7 players deep at one position? Chandler, Coleman and Jordan aren't even needed....they're gonna be buried on the depth chart, we already got 7, they might as well go ahead and find another school to play for, they'll never see the field.
 
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I think quality is a valid concern-- how big of one is yet to be seen. Are we going to be better at any position this year than we were last year? Do we have quality players two-deep at every position? Injuries are inevitable. Have last year's 2s, 3s and 4s developed? Can we replace last year's offensive and defensive production without significant drop-off? We'll start getting answers this summer. I'm not sure spring has revealed much at all.

I think it is, too, LA. My personal impression, while acknowledging that I know less than one-tenth as much as any coach, QA assistant, or groundskeeper working for UT, is something like this:

Offense:
- QB - we think we have very good quality in a couple of flavors, but won't know for sure until we see the lads carrying the burden of leadership on the field in real games. All we lack here, seemingly, is experience.
- RB - we know we have at least a solid runner in Kelly, and he might turn out to be all-SEC quality (he looked very, very good behind Kamara after Hurd quit last year). But Fils-Aime remains mostly an unknown, and everyone behind him is totally unknown. So the quality drop-off might be painless should Kelly get hurt, or it might be shocking. Too early to tell. What we really lack here = experience (just like QB).
- TE - if Ethan Wolf shows up this year the way he did his freshman year, we're great for starter. Jakob Johnson, who seems like he's been a Vol for about 30 years, never really got hot; he probably won't in his final season, either. Will Ethan's little brother, Eli, or Wil Jumper, or Andrew Craig make a splash? Too early to know for sure. Interesting dynamic here is that their position coach is also the OC. He'll probably have less time to spend with them on personal development than most, but because of his background may try to feature them more in his playbook and play calling. Will be worth watching.
- OL - quality all over the place, here. This is the best we've looked for OL since Dooley was running around in orange pants from Italy.
- WR - plenty of potential stars here, from old hands Josh Smith and Jauan Jennings, to the younger guys (Byrd, Callaway, George, etc.). This offense could be a ton of fun to watch if Dormady or Guarantano (or even Jones) settle in and get comfortable with the game speed early enough.

Defense:
- DT - it's all a question of health and recovery. In Shy and KMac, we've got potential stars...with younger potential stars backing them up. But will they all be healthy enough to last the season in 2017? Like the QB and RB groups, what we're really missing here, aside from healthy knees and ankles, is experience.
- DE - holding our breath to see if a worthy successor to Barnett arrives. From Kongbo on down, there's plenty of material to work with, but we won't know anything until the games start.
- LB - LB coach says he's excited about the returning talent and experience on this squad. He's got two solid Mikes and a host of good Wills; he seems pretty pumped. I'd say we're probably really good here.
- DB - This position group has been the biggest letdown of the past two seasons. They were expected to be stars in Jancek's last season as DC; Cam aside, they were often cringe-worthy. Last season, they were merely serviceable; not as many self-inflicted wounds as 2015, but not a strength of the defense, either. Honestly, this is the group I'm most nervous about going into 2017. Hoping they take a major step forward.

Special Teams: Hey, we got Evan Berry and Trevor Daniel back. That alone should make us all excited about our ST this coming year. Medley's back, too, and we still have young Laszlo Tozer waiting in the wings; Medley has gotten some grief for misses at distance over the past couple of years, but he has been quietly reliable on extra points and FGs inside of 40 yards. All in all, we're probably looking at another good, maybe great, special teams season.

I honestly have to say I don't see the lack of quality in the two-deep and third string that Hubbs was supposedly talking about. What I see more of is a lack of experience. Could be one of those seasons where things start off shaky and then just get better and better as the lads settle in.

We'll have to wait and see.
 
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Hey, Charger!

Yep, always. Will always look forward to the Vols' football season. Negavols can't take that away, even if they make it no fun to talk football on these boards sometimes.

Go Vols!
 
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Goddangit, guys, you're gonna have to stop comparing every iota of this program to Alabama.

Saban is a once-in-a-generation coach, and if he were here, we'd probably be close to having their success. But then again, if a bullfrog had wings, his ass wouldn't drag on the ground. Let it go.........
That's right....tell ppl how to think.
 
How quickly we forget. Lack of depth does come up, and is a serious issue when it hits. It was a legitimate concern last October after a spate of injuries thinned our defensive tackles down to the 3rd string (Paul Bain) and some converted defensive ends (Kongbo, et al).

So it happens, infrequently, but it happens. And when it happens, lack of depth is not irrelevant to the coaches, at all. In fact, it pretty quickly becomes one of their top priorities to fix.

By separating the terms or going with the idea that "quality" is not implied when "depth" is discussed, the place holder on the scout team can provide depth at DT no different than Kongbo or the 4th string DT.
 
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I think Currie will absolutely fire someone his first year. All four marquee sports are underachieving, and UT is 113th-- last in the SEC-- in the Director's Cup standings. UT had very disappointing postseasons in FB, BB and WBB-- and then there's baseball.

Currie said he expects UT to compete for championships and he has four well-compensated coaches who are underachieving for different reasons. He's not going to see great value in giving Dave Hart's hires a long leash. Other SEC schools are rising; UT is falling behind. IMO, Currie will show he means business by weeding out 1-2 coaches who don't kick it into a higher gear.

And football is by far the highest profile of any UT sport.
 
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After UT, the other team that I follow a bit is LSU, given that I live here in Baton Rouge, and its relevant I bring it up, as they are an SEC opponent for us this fall.

They seem to be getting some high mention in some early poll/predictions, however ...

Depth-wise, they are NOT in better shape than us a WR, DB, OL, or LB. I prefer our QB situation, too. The only unit of theirs that looks more solid than ours -- at this time -- is probably RB. DL might be even, as they have recruited strongly, but also have injury and academics questions there.

To whine that we have imperfections, depth-wise, probably ignores the relative situations of every other team in the SEC, with exception of Bama. JMHO
 
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Great coaches never seem to have player depth issues or tons of excuses. Restock/reload is usually the mantra.
 
Yeah he won 9 games two years in a row beating a bunch of piss poor teams and choking away sure victories(OU and UF) that should of had us playing in Atlanta both years. Had a chance to secure the sugar bowl and couldn't get it done against Vandy, with 6 draft picks. Will owns him. And yea he beat three power houses in the bowl games. Dooley could have coached those rosters to wins over Northwestern, Iowa, and Nebraska. O yeah and there is no excuse losing to Arkansas at home. at Neyland. Especially when Berry brings one back.

Ill concede the OU game. We choked.

UF was a close one that year. We got beat on a bad play. One play call does not define a coach IMO. It may define a game though.

Where I disagree is that we only beat piss poor teams. We beat UGA who had a good year. We did lose to Arkansas, but they beat Auburn, at 2015 Ole Miss, at LSU. So Arkansas wasn't exactly terrible. We had a lead against the evil empire in the 4th quarter. I know close calls don't count in football, but they should at least reflect a certain level of competence on the coaches behalf.

I think you're taking those B1G teams for granted. Sure, they aren't Bama or Clemson, but Iowa was a solid team that year. Nebraska had almost the same record as us. And we didn't squeak one out.

I'm obviously a Butch fan, but I'm not blind. The SECe is my goal as well. I won't wait forever, but I don't come from a time and place where 4 years is forever. If we keep knocking on he door we will get there. . . . Sooner than we might if we change course.

I think the Dooley reference is a low blow:p
 
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Ill concede the OU game. We choked.

UF was a close one that year. We got beat on a bad play. One play call does not define a coach IMO. It may define a game though.

Where I disagree is that we only beat piss poor teams. We beat UGA who had a good year. We did lose to Arkansas, but they beat Auburn, at 2015 Ole Miss, at LSU. So Arkansas wasn't exactly terrible. We had a lead against the evil empire in the 4th quarter. I know close calls don't count in football, but they should at least reflect a certain level of competence on the coaches behalf.

I think you're taking those B1G teams for granted. Sure, they aren't Bama or Clemson, but Iowa was a solid team that year. Nebraska had almost the same record as us. And we didn't squeak one out.

I'm obviously a Butch fan, but I'm not blind. The SECe is my goal as well. I won't wait forever, but I don't come from a time and place where 4 years is forever. If we keep knocking on he door we will get there. . . . Sooner than we might if we change course.

I think the Dooley reference is a low blow:p

As far as the 2015 UF game, it was far from one play....

http://www.rockytopinsider.com/2015/09/28/the-7-deadly-coaching-sins-on-saturday/
 
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You missed the point. My statement was not about Butch. I'll give you another example: Nick Reveiz. He is an VFL and was, probably, loved by the fans while he was here. But the UT of power and glory and history that we all want and some of you "expect", at that UT; Nick Reveiz should have never started a game at. Whose fault is it, that UT got to that point? We are there, whether you believe it or not. Phil, Lane, Dools, and Butch were the responsible HC's while this happened.
As for the "mediocre" fans comment: I'll give you some NFL info for illustration purposes. The Denver Broncos first 16 years were 82 - 147 - 9. Their "fans" sold out the stadium for many years even when the team sucked. Were they "mediocre"? The New England Patriots first 16 years were 100 - 129 - 9. They too sold enough tickets to continue on. Were their fans mediocre? My original statement is still accurate, IMO.

It's a point they all miss. They resort to beating their chests while yelling "You love mediocrity" or say the same thing in neatly parsed paragraphs.

Sorry to say but if you're a Vol football fan because they are super elite winners you're fooling yourself.

Five SEC titles in the last 37 years. The last one coming 15 years ago. Five east representative appearances since the conference games inception with a record of 2-3.

One National title in the modern era. Before Fulmer in 98. That followed with a 9-3 and 8-4 records. Short peak. The last one is credited to Doug Dickey who lost in the Orange bowl and finished 9-2 in 1967. Two loss National champs. Awesome.

Tennessee has been a solid program that temporarily achieved a level of greatness but any school that hits a 5 year bowl drought isn't elite. Winning in the SEC title game when the kids you are recruiting were taking their first steps and saying "mama" dada" doesn't strike anyone as elite.

It's Ok to want a National title or a coaching change without living in a fantasy world to prove your points.
Factually the programs greatest era of prominence was when Fulmer was at the helm. (I'm not counting Neyland, this game is not about 95 year old men saying "I remember when") The wonderful Fulmer years saw a N.C. Title and a few SEC titles and more appearances. Just so happens in that era of greatness there were also a lot of 8-4 records, a 5 loss season, a six loss season and a seven loss season. Seven of Fulmer's 17 years had 4 or more losses. That's 41% if you're playing at home.

So whatever ***** and moan, sign an epic "we want Cuonzo fired" type of petition, call him Lyle. Because you're totally right, Butch has dropped a lot of games he should have won. Just like every other coach here has.
 
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It's a point they all miss. They resort to beating their chests while yelling "You love mediocrity" or say the same thing in neatly parsed paragraphs.

Sorry to say but if you're a Vol football fan because they are super elite winners you're fooling yourself.

Five SEC titles in the last 37 years. The last one coming 15 years ago. Five east representative appearances since the conference games inception with a record of 2-3.

One National title in the modern era. Before Fulmer in 98. That followed with a 9-3 and 8-4 records. Short peak. The last one is credited to Doug Dickey who lost in the Orange bowl and finished 9-2 in 1967. Two loss National champs. Awesome.

Tennessee has been a solid program that temporarily achieved a level of greatness but any school that hits a 5 year bowl drought isn't elite. Appearing in the SEC title game when the kids you are recruiting were taking their first steps and saying "mama" dada" doesn't strike anyone as elite.

It's Ok to want a National title or a coaching change without living in a fantasy world to prove your points.
Factually the programs greatest era of prominence was when Fulmer was at the helm. (I'm not counting Neyland, this game is not about 95 year old men saying "I remember when") The wonderful Fulmer years saw a N.C. Title and a few SEC titles and more appearances. Just so happens in that era of greatness there were also a lot of 8-4 records, a 5 loss season, a six loss season and a seven loss season. Seven of Fulmer's 17 years had 4 or more losses. That's 41% if you're playing at home.

So whatever ***** and moan, sign an epic "we want Cuonzo fired" type of petition, call him Lyle. Because you're totally right, Butch has dropped a lot of games he should have won. Just like every other coach here has.

Why should the program with the one of the highest budgets accept that?
 
Why should the program with the one of the highest budgets accept that?

It's acceptable without being agreeable. My woman's ass got fat over the past 6 years, still love her even though I don't really agree with her butt's growth.

On a serious note, it's a misconception that Tennessee under performs according to their budget. Well they do I guess but not comparatively to other programs.

http://www.sbnation.com/college-foo...8/ncaa-football-teams-costs-spending-expenses

Nobody is suggesting let's all be happy with a 6-6 record and we should have given Dooley another 2 years to turn it around. But to act like 8-4 is not the program average and every time Butch wins 9 games he is taking a Cleveland steamer on the great barreled chest of General Neyland is comical.

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/

A glance at that will quickly show that while Tennessee is a top 15 spender, they are 6th in spending in the SEC and getting out spent by Kentucky. This latest study is from the 2014-15 season, so numbers may have changed. My guess is though that both the Vol numbers and the Kentucky numbers rose because of both programs efforts to spruce up facilities.
 
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It's acceptable without being agreeable. My woman's ass got fat over the past 6 years, still love her even though I don't really agree with her butt's growth.

But to act like 8-4 is not the program average and every time Butch wins 9 games he is taking a Cleveland steamer on the great barreled chest of General Neyland is comical.

Out freaking standing... lol😂
 
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It's a point they all miss. They resort to beating their chests while yelling "You love mediocrity" or say the same thing in neatly parsed paragraphs.

Sorry to say but if you're a Vol football fan because they are super elite winners you're fooling yourself.

Five SEC titles in the last 37 years. The last one coming 15 years ago. Five east representative appearances since the conference games inception with a record of 2-3.

One National title in the modern era. Before Fulmer in 98. That followed with a 9-3 and 8-4 records. Short peak. The last one is credited to Doug Dickey who lost in the Orange bowl and finished 9-2 in 1967. Two loss National champs. Awesome.

Tennessee has been a solid program that temporarily achieved a level of greatness but any school that hits a 5 year bowl drought isn't elite. Winning in the SEC title game when the kids you are recruiting were taking their first steps and saying "mama" dada" doesn't strike anyone as elite.

It's Ok to want a National title or a coaching change without living in a fantasy world to prove your points.
Factually the programs greatest era of prominence was when Fulmer was at the helm. (I'm not counting Neyland, this game is not about 95 year old men saying "I remember when") The wonderful Fulmer years saw a N.C. Title and a few SEC titles and more appearances. Just so happens in that era of greatness there were also a lot of 8-4 records, a 5 loss season, a six loss season and a seven loss season. Seven of Fulmer's 17 years had 4 or more losses. That's 41% if you're playing at home.

So whatever ***** and moan, sign an epic "we want Cuonzo fired" type of petition, call him Lyle. Because you're totally right, Butch has dropped a lot of games he should have won. Just like every other coach here has.

Playing against Steve Spurrier in his prime definitely made it hard on Fulmer to clench the SECe, but let's look at his actual numbers:

Seasons with <=8 overall wins: 5, 31%
Seasons with >= 10 overall wins: 9, 56%
Seasons <=.500 SEC Record: 2, 12%
Seasons >.500 SEC Record:14, 88%

No one was talking about firing Fulmer during the 90's when he was going 7-1 in the SEC, and losing the division to Spurrier because Spurrier was an excellent coach, and his teams were loaded with talent, and not a bunch of 2-3*s coached by Will Muschamp or Derek Mason.

Trying to downplay Fulmer's success to support the notion that CBJ is a better coach than his record shows, is an epic attempt at revisionist history.
 
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