Pennington's Response

#101
#101
VolunteerHillbilly said:
ob2, how would you feel about a KNS article reporting that unnamed SEC head football coaches think UTK would be making the biggest mistake in the program's history if Fulmer is fired? It just seems to me that most of the people who have squealed the loudest about the article are the usual diehard Fulmer supporters, and it has wounded them deeply to think that anyone in Phil's big, happy, ultra-loyal family would break ranks. Maybe that is not the case with you, and you are just a champion of full disclosure at all costs.
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As someone pointed earlier, JPs column was right up your alley. Heck, he may have even used one of your VN quotes as a cited anonymous source. Or did he?
 
#102
#102
orangeblooded_2 said:
Ok...That coach, was it followed through with and investigated? If it was, what did that investigation reveal?
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Remember though, he didn't want his name revealed. He planned to remain anonymous throughout, but the courts ordered that to be revealed. And you are right, we all know the outcome of that investigation. And I am nearly positive if there was an investigation into this, the sources would be revealed and everything in the article would be proven true. But this issue is not that important. I am simply making the point that Alabama watched an anonymous source making a lot of accusations against them. That anonymous source is now upset that there are anonymous sources making accusations against his program. Ironic.
 
#103
#103
RoanokeVol said:
Remember though, he didn't want his name revealed. He planned to remain anonymous throughout, but the courts ordered that to be revealed. And you are right, we all know the outcome of that investigation. And I am nearly positive if there was an investigation into this, the sources would be revealed and everything in the article would be proven true. But this issue is not that important. I am simply making the point that Alabama watched an anonymous source making a lot of accusations against them. That anonymous source is now upset that there are anonymous sources making accusations against his program. Ironic.
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Good point. Well said.
 
#105
#105
orange+white=heaven said:
When multiple sources confirm the assertion, even though all remain anonymous to the reader, the journalistic burden is met.

I understand your distaste for the nature of the article, but journalistically, the burden of substantiation was met.
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Ok...SO if I talk to a player from 1994, 1996, 2 players from 1998 and 5 players from 2001-2005, and they all said the program is in great shape, then its in great shape and no one should question it. If I printed it in the KNS, then the journalist burden is met, even though I just sit here and made the whole thing up?
 
#106
#106
orangeblooded_2 said:
Boy I wish some would read EVERYTHING I have to say, not bits and pieces before they commented on it.

I never...repeat NEVER said I didnt like anonymous sources. Again I say I NEVER SAID THAT! I even used the most famous anonymous source ever in the history of modern man (Deep Throat), and I wont repeat it. Its obvious you didnt read what I said about him.

HOWEVER, when an ANonymous source(s) is THE story, I do take offfense. Its not only crappy journalism, it insults peoples intelligence.

Ever read the National Enquirer?
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Again, like it or not, this is standard practice in journalism. Maybe you feel like your intelligence is being insulted, since you keep bringing up the National Enquirer. But since I know the difference between a rag like that and a newspaper which is owned by a national publishing company, I can take what's reported in the article at relatively face value (that's why Pennington has to tell his editors who his sources are). At that point I can engage in a little critical thinking and evaluate how much credibility I want to give his sources' statements -- do they have an axe to grind, do they really have the kind of access they claim, etc. The fact that they're not willing to be quoted by name obviously diminishes the amount of weight their opinions should carry. But that's their credibility, not Pennington's or the KNS's. I have to assume until proven otherwise that the KNS has done its due diligence and is satisfied with what has been reported.

It is also possible to take a nihilistic view and argue that the KNS doesn't deserve any more benefit of the doubt than the Enquirer. You may believe that, since you keep bringing the Enquirer up. I can't refute that, other than to say that reading the news at all requires you at some point to "trust" (for lack of a better word) some anonymous editorial board somewhere. Most of us are willing to assume that major news corporations (including Scripps) are scrupulous in at least trying to report bare facts. Anything beyond that and we're on our own.
 
#107
#107
orangeblooded_2 said:
Ok...SO if I talk to a player from 1994, 1996, 2 players from 1998 and 5 players from 2001-2005, and they all said the program is in great shape, then its in great shape and no one should question it. If I printed it in the KNS, then the journalist burden is met, even though I just sit here and made the whole thing up?
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If you make it up then it is not journalism, just gossip at best or libel at worst. The real issue here is that people want names so they can then attack the credibility of the anonymous sources. Right?
 
#108
#108
orangeblooded_2 said:
As someone pointed earlier, JPs column was right up your alley. Heck, he may have even used one of your VN quotes as a cited anonymous source. Or did he?
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Your starting to sound like Orangesquare. I wonder if he got banned about a week before your s/n was created.
 
#109
#109
orangeblooded_2 said:
Ok...SO if I talk to a player from 1994, 1996, 2 players from 1998 and 5 players from 2001-2005, and they all said the program is in great shape, then its in great shape and no one should question it. If I printed it in the KNS, then the journalist burden is met, even though I just sit here and made the whole thing up?
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Intelligent readers question every article no matter what is being written. While articles are to be based on fact, it is an individual writing it and they are trying to sway the reader's opinion with "jargon." It is difficult sifting through the jargon to focus on fact. And therefore, it is every readers responsibility to take the fact from the piece and discard jargon. The fact is, if a journalist writes something, he wants you to believe his view, and is going to guide you down his path.
 
#110
#110
VolunteerHillbilly said:
If you make it up then it is not journalism, just gossip at best or libel at worst. The real issue here is that people want names so they can then attack the credibility of the anonymous sources. Right?
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BINGO!!!! And we learned that tactic from politicians running for office. Rather than rebutting why it isn't true, we attack the credibility of the source.
 
#111
#111
RoanokeVol said:
Remember though, he didn't want his name revealed. He planned to remain anonymous throughout, but the courts ordered that to be revealed. And you are right, we all know the outcome of that investigation. And I am nearly positive if there was an investigation into this, the sources would be revealed and everything in the article would be proven true. But this issue is not that important. I am simply making the point that Alabama watched an anonymous source making a lot of accusations against them. That anonymous source is now upset that there are anonymous sources making accusations against his program. Ironic.
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Yep...good point. Bama fans get to take their ire out of Fulmer. Fulmer HAD a story...he didnt make it up. There was no question that the NCAA investigator went to work and dug up what he did on bama.

Here, there is no story. WHats there to follow up on? What was to be gained from the JP story? Where is the news? Fulmer had something to gain from his tipping off the NCAA (Memphis recruits). WHat do these anonyVOLS (I just coined that phrase) get out of it?

They get to slink back into their holes, continue to be "close to the program" all the while, sucking up to Fulmer and his "Program".
 
#112
#112
orangeblooded_2 said:
And my point remains that this isnt proven to be a TRUE story. Therefore, it had no business being published.
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1. Do you really think a guy locally is going to stick his neck out with a piece he made up out of mid air?

2. JP points out this was an article that raises questions some former players have. It isn't a piece that can be proven as fact. I believe he stated that when the piece came out, the media and fans were raising questions about the program. All JP did was talk to some guys who raised concerns too and put them in the paper.

3. No business being published? The only thing that can be questioned is wether or not he actually talked to former players. He says he gave KNS his sources and ran his piece by writers in the area. Now if he made everything up, he could easily be disproven by the KNS and its writers.

"However, not having used anonymous sources before, I did make sure to run everything by long-time journalists in this town who are well respected. And the News Sentinel needed to know who I spoke with as well." -JP

Now I'll ask you what more proof do you need?
 
#113
#113
oklavol said:
Your starting to sound like Orangesquare. I wonder if he got banned about a week before your s/n was created.
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I havent the slighest clue who VOLSQUARE is...But I now challenge the staff to check my IP against theirs and to please report back to you that you are making some sort of gesture to discredit me and nothing more.

The only boards Ive ever been banned from is bama boards. Sorry to disappoint you
 
#114
#114
orangeblooded_2 said:
Yep...good point. Bama fans get to take their ire out of Fulmer. Fulmer HAD a story...he didnt make it up. There was no question that the NCAA investigator went to work and dug up what he did on bama.

Here, there is no story. WHats there to follow up on? What was to be gained from the JP story? Where is the news? Fulmer had something to gain from his tipping off the NCAA (Memphis recruits). WHat do these anonyVOLS (I just coined that phrase) get out of it?

They get to slink back into their holes, continue to be "close to the program" all the while, sucking up to Fulmer and his "Program".
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maybe they help maintain the momentum to get rid of CPF and thereby put the Vols on the path to regaining championship caliber status?

btw, I thought Coach Long did a pretty darn good job of explaining the reasons behind the changes in workouts in the rebuttal article by Adams. The fact that we got a public explanation addressing specific circumstances means that the article accomplished some useful purpose.
 
#115
#115
RoanokeVol said:
Intelligent readers question every article no matter what is being written. While articles are to be based on fact, it is an individual writing it and they are trying to sway the reader's opinion with "jargon." It is difficult sifting through the jargon to focus on fact. And therefore, it is every readers responsibility to take the fact from the piece and discard jargon. The fact is, if a journalist writes something, he wants you to believe his view, and is going to guide you down his path.
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WONDEFUL!!! ANd I agree 100%!!!! Thats why I dismiss JPs article as nothing more than message board material. When I pick up a newspaper, I do expect to see opinions and editorials...ones that are based on FACTS...not unnamed sources...the kind you and I cannot follow up on and draw our own conclusions.
 
#116
#116
RoanokeVol said:
BINGO!!!! And we learned that tactic from politicians running for office. Rather than rebutting why it isn't true, we attack the credibility of the source.
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I agree. They won't attack what is said, they know that is true, instead they want to attack the character of the person who said it.
 
#117
#117
VolunteerHillbilly said:
maybe they help maintain the momentum to get rid of CPF and thereby put the Vols on the path to regaining championship caliber status?

btw, I thought Coach Long did a pretty darn good job of explaining the reasons behind the changes in workouts in the rebuttal article by Adams. The fact that we got a public explanation addressing specific circumstances means that the article accomplished some useful purpose.
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Long had to go on the defensive in the Adams article. AN article he wouldnt have had to defend himself against if the anonyVols hadnt showed up.

Thats just it...if people have problems with Fulmer/Long/ Cutcliffe/Chavis/Hamilton/Smokey...whoever, they took the cowards way out and went crying to Pennington...NOT taking it up with the person they have issue with.

As I said, IF the story is even true, then those anonyVols are back under their rock, enjoying the good life.
 
#118
#118
oklavol said:
I agree. They won't attack what is said, they know that is true, instead they want to attack the character of the person who said it.
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Who else is there to question? Penningtons was the only name mentioned in his article! Is it a valid story (someone like Al Wilson, Charlie Garner, Manning being the anonyVols)? Someone who I would highly trust and whose opinion mattered to me? Or are they the opinions of the James Banks, Lynn McGruder or Charlie Dinkledorf (played as a walkon during the 2000-2003 seasons and never got a shot at a scholarship)?

NO ONE is being held accountable for the statements made. Since JP isnt giving up his sources and the KNS stands by JP, then JP and the KNS need to be challenged.

(btw Dinkledorf isnt a real person as far as I know, just a name made up to make a point)
 
#119
#119
orangeblooded_2 said:
Who else is there to question? Penningtons was the only name mentioned in his article! Is it a valid story (someone like Al Wilson, Charlie Garner, Manning being the anonyVols)? Someone who I would highly trust and whose opinion mattered to me? Or are they the opinions of the James Banks, Lynn McGruder or Charlie Dinkledorf (played as a walkon during the 2000-2003 seasons and never got a shot at a scholarship)?

NO ONE is being held accountable for the statements made. Since JP isnt giving up his sources and the KNS stands by JP, then JP and the KNS need to be challenged.

(btw Dinkledorf isnt a real person as far as I know, just a name made up to make a point)
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Who the heck cares and why? This isn't some Watergate story or whatever. Do you want to find the sources so we can line them up in Market Square and throw oranges at them?
 
#120
#120
JZVOL said:
Who the heck cares and why? This isn't some Watergate story or whatever. Do you want to find the sources so we can line them up in Market Square and throw oranges at them?
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WHy would I want to do that? To do that would imply that I hate somebody. I dont hate anybody.

I do question the reasoning for the publishing of the article. I dont like the KNS presenting to me load of crap and telling me its what I need.

ANd I agree! Its not a watergate story...its not a story at all...so why did the KNS publish it?
 
#122
#122
orangeblooded_2 said:
WHy would I want to do that? To do that would imply that I hate somebody. I dont hate anybody.

I do question the reasoning for the publishing of the article. I dont like the KNS presenting to me load of crap and telling me its what I need.

ANd I agree! Its not a watergate story...its not a story at all...so why did the KNS publish it?
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The story is that JP talked to former players who voiced concerns about where the program was going after a 5-6 season in '05 and getting blown out twice this season.

The story isn't if CPF should be fired or if what the sources said was 100%true.

It is basically JP relaying conversations he had and putting them on paper.

What if instead of former players JP talked to fans who had questions about what was going on in the program? And JP didn't include the fans' names because the fans didn't want to be ridiculed by people they know.

The story would be what fans had to say not if they were right or wrong or if the story was made up.
 
#123
#123
orangeblooded_2 said:
I havent the slighest clue who VOLSQUARE is...But I now challenge the staff to check my IP against theirs and to please report back to you that you are making some sort of gesture to discredit me and nothing more.

The only boards Ive ever been banned from is bama boards. Sorry to disappoint you
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Orangesquare was the perennial Fulmer defender. You've sort of replaced him.
 
#124
#124
oklavol said:
Orangesquare was the perennial Fulmer defender. You've sort of replaced him.
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You wanna explain to me where I am defending Fulmer in this? Im questioning the integrity of a newspaper...if its a true story then Ill back down. Hell if the content of the story were what upset me, then I would stay upset with some of the posters on here.

I just dont like message board fodder being shoved in my face as NEWS.
 
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