Pennington's Response

#26
#26
Another view from Adams: Adams: Former players need update on current events : Columns : GoVolsXtra.com

You think the 1998 national champions had it tough? They had to run 16 110s when they reported for preseason football camp, according to Long. This year's team had to run 30 110s on the first day of summer workouts, he said.
As for the former players who say workouts have become less competitive, Long questions whether any of them ever witnessed a Friday morning off-season workout.
"We start at 5:30," Long said. "We divide the team into miniature teams. We have agility contests, tug-of-war, sled pulls. You name it. I throw it at them. The only ex-players I've ever seen there are my former NFL guys."
NFL players returning to UT for off-season conditioning are a testament to Long's work. So are UT's current players, who held up splendidly during a brutally hot training camp.
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#27
#27
Lexvol said:
If they came from anonymous sources who had a basis of comparison, what is not factual about the info that they provided?

Mike Griffith often posts his opion about CPF and compares the program to his Bammer days....in fact KNS is full of sports editorials, as are most papers. If all you read was sports news, you would be stuck reading the game reports. That would be the extent of what you would get.
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Lex, if I were to start a thread and it would read "I just got off the phone with Manning. He said this is his last year of Football and he is returning to UT as OC"...Id get summarily laughed off the board, not to mention that it would probably get deleted because there is no fact to back it up...just the ramblings of some message board poster.

But let Jim Rome, Mike Fowler or Mike Griffith report is...THEN it is news. Pennington's piece is nothing more than "I just got through talking to __________ and he said..."

Same thing
 
#28
#28
orangeblooded_2 said:
Lex, if I were to start a thread and it would read "I just got off the phone with Manning. He said this is his last year of Football and he is returning to UT as OC"...Id get summarily laughed off the board, not to mention that it would probably get deleted because there is no fact to back it up...just the ramblings of some message board poster.

But let Jim Rome, Mike Fowler or Mike Griffith report is...THEN it is news. Pennington's piece is nothing more than "I just got through talking to __________ and he said..."

Same thing
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that doesn't take any truth away from it though.
 
#30
#30
volfanbill said:
you're totally missing the whole issue of journalistic integrity. The KNS can't just make something up without facing libel and slander sanctions. It's a heavy crime and something they can't afford to do which is why I can't believe they'd make it up. If he says he has sources and the KNS let it run, he must have been able to back it up.
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So what you are saying is it cant happen? WOuld you like to to point out several instances of the media making up stories?
 
#31
#31
orangeblooded_2 said:
Accept what as fact? That JP could have very easily got on any VOL board and read a post, then attributed it to a former UT player? Heck, how do we know that one of his unnamed quotes wasnt one of yours?
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Because he has to be able to show proof that he got his quotes from a former player. By using one of my posts on VN he has no proof of who I am. Again, the KNS is not going to risk a defamation suit on an article such as this.
 
#32
#32
orangeblooded_2 said:
So what you are saying is it cant happen? WOuld you like to to point out several instances of the media making up stories?
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would you like to show me where the KNS has made up a story? EW Scripps would drop them like a cheap hooker if they wrote a false story and had to pony up the defamation charges.
 
#33
#33
volfanbill said:
that doesn't take any truth away from it though.
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Point is I named a name (Manning). I attributed him a quote. WHen it hit the major news organizations, THEN it would become news. But until it did, it was just some internet rumor.

I do however foresee that IF his story is true, one of the quoted sources coming forward and acknowledging it. Until then, its hack journalism.
 
#34
#34
so you have to agree then that Game of Shadows is hack journalism at it's finest, and we can't attribute Bonds to be a steroid user until we get names.
 
#35
#35
Lexvol said:
So, if Pennington's interview piece was an opinion about player development it would have been acceptable?
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It quit being his opinion when he quoted "former UT players". The quotes from Long seem to indicate that Pennington was wrong or that the players speaking did not understand how NCAA changes affected the workouts.
 
#36
#36
volfanbill said:
would you like to show me where the KNS has made up a story? EW Scripps would drop them like a cheap hooker if they wrote a false story and had to pony up the defamation charges.
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Thats where my problem lies with whoever the sports editor is. Quoting unnamed sources to a NON story is hack journalism.

And as someone pointed out earlier, Pennington is a admitted "non-Journalist", wonder if he picked up a ratings points on his show after the column was published? If he is a non-journalist, why is the KNS publishing it as a COLUMN instead of a LETTER TO THE EDITOR?
 
#37
#37
Fulmer is 9-10 over the last 19 SEC contests. If it hurts to hear criticism about the Orange then don't read it. Pennington was merely looking for answers as to why Tennessee is a mediocre program at best. Fulmer is "self checked" by Meyer. Urban is in his head and that translates to the players during Gator week. Fulmer can't beat Meyer and that will be his undoing next season.
 
#38
#38
the fact that tennessee is falling off the national map is a HUGE story to me. to have former players have reasons it's falling off is a HUGE story for me. I'm not sure what side of the Fulmer fence you're on, but speaking about a program in decline is a story.
 
#39
#39
volfanbill said:
so you have to agree then that Game of Shadows is hack journalism at it's finest, and we can't attribute Bonds to be a steroid user until we get names.
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Well, I cant commit on the Bonds story because I dont like the SOB (never have) and I dont like baseball.

Its very simple Bill...JP quotes an unnamed source talking about how lax the program has become. Thats not a story. But if those unnamed sources lead to a story such as "Fulmer allows players to relax by the pool during two-a-days", THAT may be a story.

Didnt you ever see ALL THE PRESIDENTS MEN? They didnt report what DEEP THROAT was telling them, but they did follow up on his leads. WHat they found was the story...not what Deep Throat told them.
 
#40
#40
oh i get it now. Since I like Lance Armstrong, I can pretend like all those accusations against are untrue and not a story. But... I hate Bonds as well, so I can believe those.
 
#41
#41
Lexvol said:
So, if Pennington's interview piece was an opinion about player development it would have been acceptable?
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Hmmm...an actual NAMED quote from someone who is actully close to the program:

"We used to have 12 weeks (for the off-season conditioning program before preseason practice)," Long said. "We get eight weeks now (under NCAA rules)."
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Johnny Long was NAMED....big difference LEX
 
#42
#42
utvolpj said:
It quit being his opinion when he quoted "former UT players". The quotes from Long seem to indicate that Pennington was wrong or that the players speaking did not understand how NCAA changes affected the workouts.
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The quote from Long also does little to convince me that the other sources were completely incorrect. When others are giving their opinion, they state that the aptmosphere is not nearly as competitive.

I think the Pennington's piece and Adam's piece both have merit.
 
#43
#43
volfanbill said:
oh i get it now. Since I like Lance Armstrong, I can pretend like all those accusations against are untrue and not a story. But... I hate Bonds as well, so I can believe those.
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Come on Bill...I know you are smarter than that. I dont follow Baseball so I cant comment on what is going on with Bonds and steroids. I follow Bicycling even less.

Unlike some, I wont get into a conversation of which I cant back up what my opinion is. In the case of Bonds, I just dont know the facts. If I was interested in the facts, I would read up on them.
 
#44
#44
Adams also quoted former players that put their name to their statements:

Former UT linebacker Eddie Moore, who captained the 2002 team, has given those workouts a try between NFL seasons. The results were humbling.
"I've never completed a summer workout without these guys," said Moore, who is rehabbing an injured knee in hopes of making an NFL comeback. "I had to go to the side and take a breather. It's way harder than what I had."
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They also have the opportunity to back up their statements:

"I challenge them to come back through our workouts," Long said of the anonymous critics.
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#45
#45
my original point remains. There is no proof that this a false story. And the sanctioning for printing a false story leads to believe it can't be false. You then talked about it being a non-story. That's up for opinion. Giving me reasons why the football team I adore so much and invest so much in is a story to me.
 
#46
#46
volfanbill said:
my original point remains. There is no proof that this a false story. And the sanctioning for printing a false story leads to believe it can't be false. You then talked about it being a non-story. That's up for opinion. Giving me reasons why the football team I adore so much and invest so much in is a story to me.
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And my point remains that this isnt proven to be a TRUE story. Therefore, it had no business being published.
 
#49
#49
If Long's workouts are so tough, then why doesn't that translate to the field? How often do you watch UT and think they they are the stronger, better conditioned team? Long is just defending the job he does.
 
#50
#50
oklavol said:
If Long's workouts are so tough, then why doesn't that translate to the field? How often do you watch UT and think they they are the stronger, better conditioned team? Long is just defending the job he does.
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Well, we now know Long is on the record. Too bad the alleged former Vols cant say the same and they will continue to hide in their corners
 
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