Pastner vs. Cuonzo? Fight to the Death!

#126
#126
1985Vols said:
If this years team does not get to the big dance and win a game or 2 , and CCM is the coach again next season, I think we could easily see season tix sells below 10,000 next year
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It's very possible, but wasn't my point.

There's been a whole lot of posters saying declining attendance will force Harts hand. I've also seen plenty of the, nobody show up to TBA and that'll show Hart we fans aren't happy.

So long as 16-17k keep showing up to TBA for conference games retaining Martin regardless of this season becomes an easy decision for hart.
 
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#127
#127
bleedingTNorange said:
It's very possible, but wasn't my point.

There's been a whole lot of posters saying declining attendance will force Harts hand. I've also seen plenty of the, nobody show up to TBA and that'll show Hart we fans aren't happy.

So long as 16-17k keep showing up to TBA for conference games retaining Martin regardless of this season becomes an easy decision for hart.
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Hart is going to look for every excuse in the world to keep him. I don't think we average 16-17k down the stretch but there's going to be a nice crowd on hand Tuesday night. Win that one, and that could change the actual attendance numbers to end the season.

I've got season tickets and I haven't been since Texas AM. I'm going Tuesday. If they lose, I'm not sure I'll be back this year. My enthusiasm for this team is just gone. It's sad because I love UT hoops and I've sat through some bad basketball (and football) over the years. I just can't drag myself (or force anyone else) to go over there and walk through the cold to sit through a boring 2 hour game.
 
#128
#128
BigZiti09 said:
Hart is going to look for every excuse in the world to keep him. I don't think we average 16-17k down the stretch but there's going to be a nice crowd on hand Tuesday night. Win that one, and that could change the actual attendance numbers to end the season.

I've got season tickets and I haven't been since Texas AM. I'm going Tuesday. If they lose, I'm not sure I'll be back this year. My enthusiasm for this team is just gone. It's sad because I love UT hoops and I've sat through some bad basketball (and football) over the years. I just can't drag myself (or force anyone else) to go over there and walk through the cold to sit through a boring 2 hour game.
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I'll take em
 
#132
#132
bleedingTNorange said:
First, they look at RPI, not ranking typically. Second, while you have no control, that really doesn't matter. Yea you beat them, but if they turn out to not be as good as once thought you're not going to get credit for beating a team that was once ranked 5 but is now unranked.

That's the tough part about scheduling coaches will tell you, you schedule a team thinking they're going to be good, but often times and injury or suspension etc. cause them to be not as good as you thought.
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you are all over the place in your attempts to discredit Memphis.

Ex 1 -- committee looks at RPI and you say the top of the SEC > top of AAC. Well, if you use the committee's criteria and you look at RPI, AAC has 5 in top 40. SEC has 2. Oh, and the # 1 SEC team lost to the # 5 AAC team.

Ex 2-- last year's narrative was JP hasn't beaten a top 25 AP team b/c that's the poll that matters. Then you link a screen shot of last weeks coach's poll to say "only 2 AAC teams ranked" when there were 4 in last week's AP poll.

Ex 3-- "it doesn't matter what the team is ranked when you play them, its how they end up". 2 years ago we beat a Xavier team that was top 25, lost to and fought with Cincy, dropped out of top 25, yet ended up making the sweet 16. Somehow that X win isn't a "quality" win b/c they weren't top 25 at the time.

you flop more than a fish on the bank
 
#133
#133
Mphsbball said:
you are all over the place in your attempts to discredit Memphis.

Ex 1 -- committee looks at RPI and you say the top of the SEC > top of AAC. Well, if you use the committee's criteria and you look at RPI, AAC has 5 in top 40. SEC has 2. Oh, and the # 1 SEC team lost to the # 5 AAC team.
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I'm just gonna stop reading right there because if you can't do something as simple as count correctly then it's really not worth my time to read the rest of your post :hi:
 
#134
#134
Mphsbball said:
you are all over the place in your attempts to discredit Memphis.

Ex 1 -- committee looks at RPI and you say the top of the SEC > top of AAC. Well, if you use the committee's criteria and you look at RPI, AAC has 5 in top 40. SEC has 2. Oh, and the # 1 SEC team lost to the # 5 AAC team.

Ex 2-- last year's narrative was JP hasn't beaten a top 25 AP team b/c that's the poll that matters. Then you link a screen shot of last weeks coach's poll to say "only 2 AAC teams ranked" when there were 4 in last week's AP poll.

Ex 3-- "it doesn't matter what the team is ranked when you play them, its how they end up". 2 years ago we beat a Xavier team that was top 25, lost to and fought with Cincy, dropped out of top 25, yet ended up making the sweet 16. Somehow that X win isn't a "quality" win b/c they weren't top 25 at the time.

you flop more than a fish on the bank
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You are wasting your time, that's his niche unfortunately...
 
#135
#135
bleedingTNorange said:
I'm just gonna stop reading right there because if you can't do something as simple as count correctly then it's really not worth my time to read the rest of your post :hi:
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Of course you wont, because I proved you to be the flopper that you are.

BTW-- cbssports has their RPI rankings. As of this morning:

Fla -5
Ky -11
Cin - 14
Mem- 28
UCONN- 30
Lou- 33
SMU- 39

that's 5 to 2 in the top 40. see for yourself:
NCAA College Basketball RPI Nitty Gritty Report - CBSSports.com
 
#136
#136
Mphsbball said:
Of course you wont, because I proved you to be the flopper that you are.

BTW-- cbssports has their RPI rankings. As of this morning:

Fla -5
Ky -11
Cin - 14
Mem- 28
UCONN- 30
Lou- 33
SMU- 39

that's 5 to 2 in the top 40. see for yourself:
NCAA College Basketball RPI Nitty Gritty Report - CBSSports.com
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Like I've said, the AAC is better, but the fact you have to go to great lengths to defend that notion is evidence enough that it's not a "loaded" league.

It's a 4-5 bid league, not all that much better than the SEC.
 
#137
#137
well, I guess no league in America is "loaded" b/c the AAC is tied with the Big 10 for the most ranked teams this week.

50% of a conference in the top 25 =/= loaded. I'll mark that for future reference.
 
#138
#138
Mphsbball said:
well, I guess no league in America is "loaded" b/c the AAC is tied with the Big 10 for the most ranked teams this week.

50% of a conference in the top 25 =/= loaded. I'll mark that for future reference.
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It's incredibly top heavy. Their top 5 are very good, but I wouldn't put the AAC in the same discussion as the big 10 or ACC as a whole.
 
#139
#139
Giving credit where credit is due I thought the last 6-8 minutes of the Gonzaga game was by far the best half court defense that I have seen Memphis play since Pastner has been there. I wasn't sure they could win a half court game but it was a really good effort.
 
#140
#140
Mphsbball said:
Of course you wont, because I proved you to be the flopper that you are.

BTW-- cbssports has their RPI rankings. As of this morning:

Fla -5
Ky -11
Cin - 14
Mem- 28
UCONN- 30
Lou- 33
SMU- 39

that's 5 to 2 in the top 40. see for yourself:
NCAA College Basketball RPI Nitty Gritty Report - CBSSports.com
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Lol. I can't help but say that you did exactly what you are claiming BTO of doing. You stopped at 40. If you take top 50, you add two more SEC teams. In addition, Arkansas beat SMU this year. UVA also beat SMU, and we know what UT did to them.

Look, the AAC is a good conference, and I would say better than the SEC. But it is really top heavy this year. The SEC has some bad teams, but it is more competitive in the middle.
 
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#142
#142
TennaciousD957 said:
After last nights game I started thinking about Cuonzo and his uncanny ability to play down to his competition and lose to non-NCAA tourney teams. These types of losses kill momentum, morale (players and fans), and NCAA tourney resumes. Here is a breakdown of the non-NCAA tourney teams Cuonzo has lost to since being a head coach (except for his first season at MSU b/c that was a complete mess).

2009-10 - Missouri State (24-12 & 8-10) - CIT
Arkansas (12-18)
Wichita State (25-10) 2nd in the MVC
Drake (15-19)
Bradley (21-16)
Creighton (20-16)
Southern Ill (17-15)
Ill State (23-11)
Indiana St. (18-15)

2010-11 - Missouri State (26-9 & 15-3) - NIT
Tulsa (20-16) 2nd in CUSA
Northern Iowa (20-14) 4th MVC
Evansville (16-16) 6th MVC
Valpo (23-12) 4th Horizon

2011-12 - UT (19-16 & 10-6) - NIT
Oakland (20-16) 3rd Summitt
Austin Peay (14-20) couldn't find conf finish
Col. Of Charleston (19-12) 4th in South Div of Southern
UGA (15-17) 11th SEC
BAMA (20-12) 6th SEC
Ole Miss (20-14) 8th SEC

2012-13 - UT (20-13 & 11-7) - NIT
BAMA x2 (23-13) 3rd SEC
UK (21-12) 4th SEC
Ark (19-13) 7th SEC
UGA x2 (15-17) 9th SEC
Mercer (24-12) 1st Atlantic Sun (lost conf tourny - NIT)

2013-14 - UT (14-8 & 5-4)
UTEP (16-6) currently 2nd in CUSA (1 bid league?)
NC State (14-7) 8th ACC
Tx A&M (12-9) 9th SEC
Vandy (13-8) 6th SEC

Cuonzo takes 4-8 losses a year against teams that will not make the NCAAs. Now compare this trend versus Josh Pastner. Pastner is widely criticized on this board and across the country and being a mediocre game coach at best with due. Since being a head coach here are his losses against non-NCAA teams.

09-10 - Memphis (24-10 & 15-3) - NIT
UMASS
SMU
Ole Miss

10-11 - Memphis (25-10 & 10-6) - NCAA
SMU
Marshall
Rice
Tulsa
UTEP

11-12 - Memphis (26-9 & 13-3) - NCAA
UTEP

12-13 - Memphis (31-5 & 16-0) - NCAA
None

13-14 - Memphis (17-5 & 7-3)
None

Notice any differences. I am not lobbying to hire Pastner, but I can see at least 2 things from his record. #1 he does not lose to teams he should be very often and only 1 time in the last 3 seasons. He also appears to improving dramatically as a coach. Because of this he and Memphis are making NCAAs

For Cuonzo, he has not improved at all in 6 years as a head coach in this manner. These games are EXACTLY why we are NOT making NCAAs.You can make excuses for a game here and there as all teams lose games they are not supposed to, but all teams don't lose 5-8 games they are not supposed to every year. Those teams are irrelevant in the basketball world.
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Pastner is a good young coach, no question about it.
 
#143
#143
Anyone that watched the Memphis UCF game last night should have serious questions about Pastner's ability. The guy flat out can't coach. He has top 10 talent-he honestly does. But year after year they are a weak bunch. His players never develop. Thank god Memphis hasn't had a legit head coach over the last few years. With their talent, they could have been scary good.
Pastner may go on to be the next Coach K, but it won't be at Memphis. He's just not ready, and showing no signs of improving.
 
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#145
#145
volgrad500 said:
Anyone that watched the Memphis UCF game last night should have serious questions about Pastner's ability. The guy flat out can't coach. He has top 10 talent-he honestly does. But year after year they are a weak bunch. His players never develop. Thank god Memphis hasn't had a legit head coach over the last few years. With their talent, they could have been scary good.
Pastner may go on to be the next Coach K, but it won't be at Memphis. He's just not ready, and showing no signs of improving.
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That's funny. Do good teams not have bad games and still win? Did you watch Syracuse last night. They won by 2. Did you watch Memphis v Gonzaga or Rutgers. They did exactly what they were supposed to do. Beat Gonzaga and blasted Rutgers. They don't have a bad loss this year. Last year his critics said he could mpt beat an AP top 25 team. He's beat 3 so far this year and has a shot at 3 more. Now, it's he only beat UCF by 6 points. They suck.

His players never develop. Who are you talking about? You're nuts. :loco: Have you seen the difference in Shaq Goodwin this year vs last? Have you seen the change in Jackson from his freshman year. People here mentioned it last year. Who is it that hasn't developed this year. There are 9 (I think) new players this year including 3 of thr top 8 players. Tell me who hasn't gotten better? Maybe Crawford......he's a role player and the leading 3 point shooter on the team, Pellom, he played at GW year before last (he nor Dixon even player last season) Dixon, he's new to Memphis, Johnson, he's the leading defender on the team and will most likely be in the NBA next year. Joe Jackson is probably one of the top 10-15 PGs in the country. Goodwin is leaps and bounds better than he was as a freshman. So, who is it that hasn't developed?
 
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#146
#146
The game was close because Pastner loves to play 3 to 4 guards at a time. Pastner wants to inforce his style of play which isn't working as expected, the Uconn game was a prime example.
 
#147
#147
bwings said:
That's funny. Do good teams not have bad games and still win? Did you watch Syracuse last night. They won by 2. Did you watch Memphis v Gonzaga or Rutgers. They did exactly what they were supposed to do. Beat Gonzaga and blasted Rutgers. They don't have a bad loss this year. Last year his critics said he could mpt beat an AP top 25 team. He's beat 3 so far this year and has a shot at 3 more. Now, it's he only beat UCF by 6 points. They suck.

His players never develop. Who are you talking about? You're nuts. :loco: Have you seen the difference in Shaq Goodwin this year vs last? Have you seen the change in Jackson from his freshman year. People here mentioned it last year. Who is it that hasn't developed this year. There are 9 (I think) new players this year including 3 of thr top 8 players. Tell me who hasn't gotten better? Maybe Crawford......he's a role player and the leading 3 point shooter on the team, Pellom, he played at GW year before last (he nor Dixon even player last season) Dixon, he's new to Memphis, Johnson, he's the leading defender on the team and will most likely be in the NBA next year. Joe Jackson is probably one of the top 10-15 PGs in the country. Goodwin is leaps and bounds better than he was as a freshman. So, who is it that hasn't developed?
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Are you serious? 10-14 Rutgers? How about the game before your signature win against Rutgers -you know, the one where they lost by 15 to SMU?
Losing at home to UC by 16? Losing at home to UCONN by 10? I've seen damn near every game Memphis has played this year, and the best they've looked was a loss against FL. THey beat OSU when Smart had the flu (and after losing to OSU by what, like 30?) They have more experience and talent on their team this year than almost anyone, yet are barely clinging to a #24 ranking.

You are confusing players maturing with improving through coaching. Let's say Jackson is a top 10 pg (he's not) -he's a FOUR YEAR starter. He should be!! Everyone else in his class worth a damn has already gone pro.
Memphis gets elite talent year in and year out, but tell me one that Josh has gotten in the league that has done anything. I hate to ruin your man crush, but there isn't one. Memphis is where elite prospects go to be forgotten.
 
#148
#148
volgrad500 said:
Memphis gets elite talent year in and year out, but tell me one that Josh has gotten in the league that has done anything. I hate to ruin your man crush, but there isn't one. Memphis is where elite prospects go to be forgotten.
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Hell the same could be said for Coach K, other than Grant Hill and Elton Brand his Dukes guys have been average to mediocre in the NBA.
 
#149
#149
volgrad500 said:
Are you serious? 10-14 Rutgers? How about the game before your signature win against Rutgers -you know, the one where they lost by 15 to SMU?
Losing at home to UC by 16? Losing at home to UCONN by 10? I've seen damn near every game Memphis has played this year, and the best they've looked was a loss against FL. THey beat OSU when Smart had the flu (and after losing to OSU by what, like 30?) They have more experience and talent on their team this year than almost anyone, yet are barely clinging to a #24 ranking.

You are confusing players maturing with improving through coaching. Let's say Jackson is a top 10 pg (he's not) -he's a FOUR YEAR starter. He should be!! Everyone else in his class worth a damn has already gone pro.
Memphis gets elite talent year in and year out, but tell me one that Josh has gotten in the league that has done anything. I hate to ruin your man crush, but there isn't one. Memphis is where elite prospects go to be forgotten.
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10-14 Rutgers? I don't know what that means. They beat Rutgers by 32 only because the walkons finished the game. Smart had the flu......:eek:hmy:.....you can probably find someone not feeling well in any game played, Ask Michael Jordan. Check the paper, they are #20 right now. I said Jackson is a top 10-15 PG, he is. Name 15 better. No man crush, he's just not a bad coach as you would have everyone believe. He's 36 years old and has improved each year. Who would you rather have? Martin or Pastner? Yep, forgotten unlike Vols. :loco:

Ask Shaq Goodwin what he attributes his improvement to. He will tell you working with Pastner and Robert Kirby. You can go back to sleep now.

Are there better coaches out there? Sure. Would I rather have someone else right now? Probably not. Why would you get rid of someone that's won 20 games every year and 30 in a couple for an unknown? Will Paster ever get an NC? Probably not. Who knows if coach K ever gets one again. That's a long shot for just about any coach. Will Pastner get to the final four? Maybe. I feel certain he has a better chance of getting there than a ton of D1 coaches out there. So why should Memphis not support him until he shows he can't do the job. He'll be around a lot longer than Martin will. :salute:
 
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#150
#150
bwings said:
10-14 Rutgers? I don't know what that means. They beat Rutgers by 32 only because the walkons finished the game. Smart had the flu......:eek:hmy:.....you can probably find someone not feeling well in any game played, Ask Michael Jordan. Check the paper, they are #20 right now. I said Jackson is a top 10-15 PG, he is. Name 15 better. No man crush, he's just not a bad coach as you would have everyone believe. He's 36 years old and has improved each year. Who would you rather have? Martin or Pastner? Yep, forgotten unlike Vols. :loco:

Ask Shaq Goodwin what he attributes his improvement to. He will tell you working with Pastner and Robert Kirby. You can go back to sleep now.
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I don't know what the bolded means, other than it probably indicates you are a moron. 10-14 Rutgers-that's their record genius. They were #24 last week when they played the Gonzaga game you referenced (who by the way, also lost to the Portland Pilots). "36 years old and improved each year" is exactly what people say about someone not getting the job done, and like I said, he may eventually be a good coach, but he's not right now.

As far as him v Martin, it's hard to say. The talent levels aren't even close. Martin has beaten better teams. The very fact that it's even close tells you all you need to know about Pastner.
 
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