Parrish article on Martin's exit

[BigZiti09]

Funny you bring up Dooley because more people were on Dooley's side than Zo's and Martin did a million times better.

You serious?

 

[SGMVols]

CDT inherited more production. Martin's first team was picked either 12 of 12 or 11 of 12 by all pre season polls. You can absolutely compare them.

And all those "4 stars" at the time were either unproven or had proven to be overrated...hence the 11th place in the SEC predictions.

 

[JVol76]

I absolutely despise the race card b.s. The fact of the matter is Martin is a mediocre coach and it took the threat of being terminated to light a fire under his players. He said leaving is probably good for him and Tennessee, but his exit is nothing but a great thing for UT.

 

[BigZiti09]

And all those "4 stars" at the time were either unproven or had proven to be overrated...hence the 11th place in the SEC predictions.

Trae Golden 4*
Jordan McRae 4*
Cam Tatum 4*
Jeronne Maymon 4*
Kenny Hall 4*
Swiperboy4*
Skylar McBee

vs

Josh Richardson 3*
Armani Moore 3*
Derek Reese 3*
Robert Hubbs 5*

Rankings aren't everything, but I don't think that there's any question who inherited a better squad.

 

[volbeast33]

I just want people to be consistent. If Martin was held to the 20 wins, no bad losses, NCAA or else standard than CDT should be also.

You serious? There were fans complaining about pearl when we were going to six straight tourneys and on our way to the elite eight.

 

[k-town_king]

Trae Golden 4*
Jordan McRae 4*
Cam Tatum 4*
Jeronne Maymon 4*
Kenny Hall 4*
Swiperboy4*
Skylar McBee

vs

Josh Richardson 3*
Armani Moore 3*
Derek Reese 3*
Robert Hubbs 5*

Rankings aren't everything, but I don't think that there's any question who inherited a better squad.

So what is more important? Rankings or experience and production? CDT inherited more production.

He also inherited Thompson and Davis who had numbers similar to Maymon and Golden. Davis was a 4 star on one site. Richardson was right outside the 4 stars.

 

[cncchris33]

The only player who started a couple of games for Pearl that Martin got was Tatum. I think we would all agree that we would rather have J Rich than Tatum. CDT inherited Thompson and Davis also. He just didn't hold onto them. They had similar numbers to what Golden and Maymon had under Pearl. Hubbs with a hurt shoulder had a better freshman year than McRae and was rated way higher.

I had a feeling you'd take that angle with Thompson and Davis. It is of no fault of Tyndall's that they chose to pursue easier roads elsewhere, so no, he didn't inherit them.

I'll agree that I would take JRich over Tatum, which is why I agreed to an extent with your claim that CDT is inheriting more. Again...barely. Hubbs is only marginally more proven than McRae was at the time, and if you forced me to choose between Tatum, McRae, Maymon, Golden, Kenny Hall, Woolridge, & McBee, or Richardson, Hubbs, Moore, & Reese, then I'm taking that first group 10 times out of 10. Sure, with the benefit of hindsight, Tatum, Hall, & Woolridge didn't exactly pan out, but no one knew that at the time. On paper, Martin had a good deal of talent, a heck of a lot more depth, and the luxury of not having to fill out more than half his roster with leftovers who may or may not ever contribute at an SEC level. Tyndall has four players returning; one all-SEC level player, a highly touted SO, and two roll players who have no defined position, and then attempted to fill out the roster with limited options in short time.

 

[dhb92]

No, but my sister does know his wife.

Let's see how people react to the new coach compared to Martin if he doesn't make the NCAA and his team scores the same or less than Martin's. Martin outperformed expectations each year and made a Sweet 16 by year three. That wasn't good enough and his teams were too boring. Lets see if CDT gets the same negativity that Martin did after this year. People said no matter what if we didn't win 20 games and make the tourney the season was bad. Lets see if CDT is held to the same standard. He inherited more returning production than Martin did.

I guarantee that if Tyndall goes to the NIT 2 years in a row he will be in the same hot seat as Martin. And what people seem to forget is that at the time of the petition we were looking like it'd be year 3 in the NIT, it wasn't until the very tail end of the season that thy seemed to have it together. I think that Cuonzo's personality also didn't buy himself any time.

 

[volbeast33]

Which part?

I know for a fact people harassed his wife. I said it when he left.

It is a fact he beat expectations his first and last year definitely. Matched them his second year without his leading returning scorer. Sweet 16 his third year. That was not good enough.

Never won less than 19 games. Not good enough.

Lets see if the NCAA or bust people say the same things for CDT.

To please the Martin haters he would need to make the NCAA every year with at least 20 wins and no losses to "worse" teams and average at least about 75 a game. If you are holding them to the same standards that is.

Here is the timeline involving Zo.....

* hired! majority approved but skeptical
*1st recruiting class, overwhelming majority tried to talk up the players
* lose to a horrible Austin Peay at home, majority started to question and doubt Zo
* run at end of first season! overwhelming majority in favor of Zo including making the board nauseating with glad he is our coach talk.
* people question really bad overall second recruiting class.
* team is up and down like season before and more fans start to question Zo
* decent but still middle of the pack sec. Recruiting class so fans still not sold on future of the program
* majority looking forward to 3rd season and feel this is our yr.
* we are up and down again and after NC State loss at home....Zo loses majority of fan support and is never able to get them fully back although some flip flop depending on the game.
* Zo has very mediocre recruiting class showing not much hope for the future.
* Zo chooses to leave to restart his coaching clock instead of risking getting fired in what most prognosticators predict will be a down yr.

This is what happened and I'm glad he is gone.

 

[volbeast33]

So what is more important? Rankings or experience and production? CDT inherited more production.

He also inherited Thompson and Davis who had numbers similar to Maymon and Golden. Davis was a 4 star on one site. Richardson was right outside the 4 stars.

Who cares? It's about building a program and that is where Zo failed us.

 

[BigZiti09]

So what is more important? Rankings or experience and production? CDT inherited more production.

He also inherited Thompson and Davis who had numbers similar to Maymon and Golden. Davis was a 4 star on one site. Richardson was right outside the 4 stars.

Where to start???

If you're going to count Davis and Thompson, then I'm going to count Scotty and Tobias. Both 5* players.

Show me where Davis was a 4*.

Richardson was no closer to being a 4* than McRae was to a 5*.

So now experience and production should matter more? Not how good of a player they are?

It's obvious that your judgment is clouded. You've decided that Martin was done dirty by this fanbase and nothing is going to change your mind.

 

[orangeluvr]

Man it would've been a major sh!t storm had martin been fired! :crazy: :shakehead:

 

[cncchris33]

If you're going to count Davis and Thompson, then I'm going to count Scotty and Tobias. Both 5* players.

Excellent point. You can't count players that you had no chance of keeping. Thompson and Davis left because Zo was fired, not because Tyndall was hired. Simple as that. He had little to no chance of convincing them to change their already decided minds.

 

[supersmo18]

"I honestly think me leaving is good for me and probably good for Tennessee," Martin concluded.

I believe this is true.

CBS and Parrish with yet another baseless accusation of racism against the Vol Nation. This accusation has been levied repeatedly in the national media. Never, afaik in the local media. Not one single shred of evidence has ever been presented that I've seen. And I personally have never heard one single slur against CCMs "race" from his hiring until his retiring. And I'm as white as a refrigerator!

Also, the national media is incapable or unwilling to report the real reason for fan disapproval and thus the petition. This article only touches on it but makes good points @ the Pearl Effect".

CCM was squandering an experienced and talented roster, recruiting in a very pedestrian way, and that following two "trips" to the NIT with losses to small programs, one of them our in state "little brother" in our own arena! It's very simple, but it's obviously not as marketable as the deceptive "sweet 16 overachiever fable" presented by CBS.

I'm truly happy for CCM because I really like his character. I'm also truly happy that he's in Cali instead of Knoxville, as a Vol BB fan.

Extremely well thought-out and stated post. Agreed.

 

[daniel 85]

That he stunk n vol fans expectations were unrealistic but since he is black no way can he sux at coaching so it had to race...

I mean look at the NBA they never fire a black coach because of performance.. Lol u either win or get fired n that's how it should be.

That's exactly right
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[MR_VOL]

bs

My words exactly.

 

[volKano]

What just one minute!! We have black people involved in baskeball now at UT? What is wrong with us?

 

[BigZiti09]

Fast-forward to Selection Sunday, when the Vols received an at-large bid to the NCAA Tournament, and everything was set for one of the stranger Sweet 16 runs in recent history. Typically, coaches and players and fans rally as one and try to stick it to their doubters or rivals. But the Tennessee players took a different approach -- an us-against-our-fans approach -- and, after every win on their way to the Sweet 16, they celebrated accordingly.

"Even during the NCAA Tournament, we had so much fun, but every time we won, they were like, 'Yeah, Coach, we showed them!' " Martin said. "But what I was trying to do as a coach was say, 'Guys, it's not us against our fans. We're all in the same family. There's just some dysfunction in the family.' But you know how young guys are. They were like, 'Ahh, coach. To hell with them! We riding!' They actually became closer because of that."

But some people still want to say that the petition didn't impact their performance for the better. No doubt in my mind that without that petition, Martin gets axed and is an assistant coach somewhere right now.

 

[k-town_king]

Where to start???

If you're going to count Davis and Thompson, then I'm going to count Scotty and Tobias. Both 5* players.

Show me where Davis was a 4*.

Richardson was no closer to being a 4* than McRae was to a 5*.

So now experience and production should matter more? Not how good of a player they are?

It's obvious that your judgment is clouded. You've decided that Martin was done dirty by this fanbase and nothing is going to change your mind.

Yahoo Sports: Rivals.com Ranking - Rivals150 for the class of 2011

Everyone knew those two were going pro. Way different than losing transfers you could have kept.


Josh Richardson 17 spots from a 4 star.


Yahoo Sports: Rivals.com Ranking - Rivals150 for class of 2010


McRae 19 away from 5 star. Pretty close.

I think production shows what type of player they are. You think rankings matter more than what they actually do on the court? You think Woolridge or Tatum are better than J Rich then?

The fact is the players CDT inherited that he had a chance to keep put up better numbers.

There was a reason we were picked last or next to last in the SEC. No returning players who had done anything at all. Now we have J Rich a probable All SEC pick. Hubbs also who did way better than McRae even with a bad shoulder.

 

[k-town_king]

Excellent point. You can't count players that you had no chance of keeping. Thompson and Davis left because Zo was fired, not because Tyndall was hired. Simple as that. He had little to no chance of convincing them to change their already decided minds.

He had a chance. He didn't want to or couldn't. Not the same as two highly rated guys trying to get drafted.

 

[MR_VOL]

Personally, I think it was a win - win situation for all involved. Unfortunately, I do believe there is a segment of Volnation that is upset because Martin left without/before being fired.

 

[volroadwarrior]

Because it had nothing to do with the less than medioce results on the court right? I mean its not like he lost to austin peay or anythng.

What else would you expect from CBS? Just watch the fans next year get behind the team with all black players. But, that will never be reported by the likes of Parrish or CBS.

 

[cncchris33]

He had a chance. He didn't want to or couldn't. Not the same as two highly rated guys trying to get drafted.

No. It is the same. In all four cases, the player pursued basketball elsewhere, and the new head coach wasn't going to convince them otherwise.

As I said before, Davis and Thompson left because Martin was fired, not because Tyndall was hired. They had their minds made up.

 

[k-town_king]

No. It is the same. In all four cases, the player pursued basketball elsewhere, and the new head coach wasn't going to convince them otherwise.

As I said before, Davis and Thompson left because Martin was fired, not because Tyndall was hired. They had their minds made up.

Then why did they meet with Tyndall and talk about staying? Scotty and Harris were gone to the draft. Everyone knew it. Nowhere near the same thing.

 

[Shadowboxer]

Martin was a passive coach of an aggressive fanbase. His downfall was taking his first team that (on star rating) was talented, but not that experienced, almost to the NCAA tournament only to get bounced in the first round of the NIT tournament. That same team was essentially the same team he had for his tenure with us and until the last two weeks of March 2014, looked to play exactly like the first team his entire time with us.

That seems to get lost in the eyes of the national media who keep trying to blame the fanbases disconnect with Coach Martin on race. I dont care if he were a white guy, I wanted him gone after year 2, but gave him a chance. I wanted Jerry Green gone and he made 4 consecutive NCAA tournaments.

That doesn't make this fan base racist. It makes Coach Martin and his apologists look racist for grasping at straws.