PAC12 player group is not too bright

#51
#51
The Original Fade said:
The players demands have already been addressed and they’re still mad. Maybe “not too bright” was a bit harsh.
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The Pac 12 is doing just Section I of the demands, right? The COVID protections? Or are they even addressing that? I haven't seen where they've actually addressed any of these, especially the ones about players getting paid and coaches/admins taking big pay cuts.
 
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#52
#52
DarkAvenger said:
They sign a waiver already to play football as far as concussions go with future effects and not holding the university responsible? I get what you are saying but you act like these kids don’t already have to waive certain things.
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My point is this is distinctively different than that. I don't agree with your assertion that players sign a waiver of liability for concussions either. They sign on to the teams protocol and agree to tell the appropriate medical director that they have an injury and not hide it. They don't waive their right for the injury itself. Moreover, that is an injury directly related to football so there is some assumption of the risk. The virus is not a condition that is associated directly with football.
 
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#54
#54
RobertPellitt said:
That's right when proven wrong, trot out the ole snowflake card. The old stand by, when met with facts, rationale thinking and proper English...... call it a snowflake.
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Yep, you got me. You are definitely the smartest person on vn, but I'm done with you.
 
#55
#55
RobertPellitt said:
That's right when proven wrong, trot out the ole snowflake card. The old stand by, when met with facts, rationale thinking and proper English...... call it a snowflake.
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Well, since you are bringing up proper English, the appropriate word would be rational thinking. You think rationally. Rationale is a noun describing a series of beliefs. Rational is an adjective and above sentence it should be the adjective of what type of thinking....

...just since you brought up proper English.
 
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#56
#56
The Original Fade said:
The PAC12 player group is now mad that the conference cancelled football and has reiterated its list of demands WHICH WERE ALREADY BEING MET BEFORE THEY DECIDED TO FORM THEIR GROUP. Now they want to form a players association. I get the sense these players are being taken for a ride by some lawyers
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Tree huggers
 
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#57
#57
RobertPellitt said:
My point is this is distinctively different than that. I don't agree with your assertion that players sign a waiver of liability for concussions either. They sign on to the teams protocol and agree to tell the appropriate medical director that they have an injury and not hide it. They don't waive their right for the injury itself. Moreover, that is an injury directly related to football so there is some assumption of the risk. The virus is not a condition that is associated directly with football.
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There’s an assumption of risk if one decides that they want to play a contact sport. So an athlete should be allowed to sign a waiver if they accept the risk of playing, as long as they aren’t forced into playing by the coaches or university then I don’t see any wrong.
 
#58
#58
RobertPellitt said:
Reading is important. I did not argue that signing it made them employee. It does however, make them something different than they used to be. So it is quite different than your scenarios. There is always a quid pro quo with any release. You signed it to go to King's Island (which does not happen in real life) so you could enjoy the ride. However, if you bought your ticket and then they told you, you had to sign it then the relationship changes. See how that works? They changed your initial agreement, so what do you get for signing it after your original agreement? So if you are already on scholarship and they ask you to sign something that takes away a right from you, then they must give you something in return, something you didn't already have. If they don't then the agreement is called illusory, it was not based on consideration. So quite different than your scenario.
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I agree reading is important. Your words "If that happens I think we can no longer view the student-Athlete, as such, but rather an employee/independent contractor". By the way, an "employee" and a "contractor" are also apples and oranges.
 
#59
#59
sigmundoooz said:
I agree reading is important. Your words "If that happens I think we can no longer view the student-Athlete, as such, but rather an employee/independent contractor". By the way, an "employee" and a "contractor" are also apples and oranges.
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By the way, also your words again "(which does not happen in real life)", you should really start reading the fine print when you purchase sports tickets. Those waivers on the back of baseball, amusement park, or concert tickets are one form of exculpatory contracts. An exculpatory contract is a “contract clause which releases one of the contracting parties from liability for his or her wrongful act.”[1] Recreational businesses, in particular, utilize exculpatory contracts as a way to try and limit liability or to prevent litigation. For example, I was required to sign an exculpatory contract in which I promised not to sue the last time I went ice skating. Some exculpatory contracts, however, do not even require a signature. Instead, they are placed on the back of most admission tickets—ticket to a basketball game, amusement park, concert, etc. In those instances, one need not sign anything to waive liability; one only need to purchase the ticket. That is, the act of purchasing the ticket is all that is needed for an agreement to form between the parties in which one promises not to sue the other in the event of an injury. Accordingly, businesses, especially those that engage in recreational activities, often rely on exculpatory contracts to limit liability, or to prevent litigation.
 
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#62
#62
Since the fans pay the bills maybe it is time to form a fans coalition to demand proper value for our dollars.
 
#63
#63
RobertPellitt said:
Statutes of slave owners being taken down are also ok by me. Let's put some up to remember the slaves and victims of racism, that seems more appropriate to me. But this seems a bit off topic, don't you think?
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Not really. This is a free thought open forum and it appears you are trying to control thought and conversation.
 
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#64
#64
RobertPellitt said:
My point is this is distinctively different than that. I don't agree with your assertion that players sign a waiver of liability for concussions either. They sign on to the teams protocol and agree to tell the appropriate medical director that they have an injury and not hide it. They don't waive their right for the injury itself. Moreover, that is an injury directly related to football so there is some assumption of the risk. The virus is not a condition that is associated directly with football.
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With your last sentence it appears the PAC-12 made the right decision.
 
#65
#65
sigmundoooz said:
Signing a waiver does not make you an employee. Otherwise, I should be getting paychecks from multiple gun clubs, a couple of white water rafting companies, a couple of summer camps, the Boy Scouts, Gold Rush Junction, Silver Dollar City, Six Flags Over Georgia, Kings Island, Universal Studios (Hollywood and Orlando), SeaWorld, Disney world, Disney Land and several long since defunct water slide parks that I can't even remember the names of. Darn it, I should be very wealthy from being an employee of all those places. Where's my money?
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How the hell have you never been to Cedar Point?

Dude you need some Steel Vengeance in your life.
 
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#66
#66
Seems like a lot of people are intent on killing the golden goose. I can live just fine without college football. At some point schools are going to conclude all of this is not worth the endless bs.
 
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#67
#67
The Original Fade said:
The PAC12 player group is now mad that the conference cancelled football and has reiterated its list of demands WHICH WERE ALREADY BEING MET BEFORE THEY DECIDED TO FORM THEIR GROUP. Now they want to form a players association. I get the sense these players are being taken for a ride by some lawyers
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The revenue sharing will take a lot of time to sort out, since there are so many orgs that have to sign off from the NCAA to the league to the school administrations, and ultimately the state legislatures. After all this revenue is STATE revenue, since they run the schools.
 
#68
#68
munsterlander said:
Seems like a lot of people are intent on killing the golden goose. I can live just fine without college football. At some point schools are going to conclude all of this is not worth the endless bs.
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I thought it had 10 more years but maybe not now. The left-wing PC forces don't like American football that is unique to our country and a sport women can't play.
 
#69
#69
Doctrippin said:
I thought it had 10 more years but maybe not now. The left-wing PC forces don't like American football that is unique to our country and a sport women can't play.
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If the right is boycotting the NFL and the left "hates" the NFL, how are there millions and millions of people still watching?
 
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#72
#72
No they think they are more important than they are. They think the tale needs to wage the dog. I still say let them go, better off doing with out them at the amateur level. (even as diluted as it is).
My boss once had a employee as hard headed as he say "if that was the best he could do, then I quit!" His response was "go fill that bucket full of water, stick your finger in it, then pull it out. The hole it leaves will be how much you will be missed!!" That's the way I feel about these kids who feel so important.
 
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#74
#74
Pandora's box is being pried open by someone who sees $$$ signs. If players are reclassified as "employees or contracted staff," it's the end of CFB as we all know it. I call these types of actions the "Lotto Scam" everyone who voted for a Lottery, were persuaded that extra $$$ would be diverted to public services (ex: Education), but in reality, every dollar brought in by lottery, the Education budget is decreased, so, not only do you get scammed by purchasing the gazillion to 1 chance, but your rationale that you are helping improve education is false logic.

Long story short, this is going to happen, and decisions are going to be made by the SOS thought pattern. Shiny Object Syndrome (SOS) and no one will realize the damage it causes until after it has happened. Lawyers, Players, Schools............doesn't matter, everything centers around $$$, and it usually wins 100% of the time.

I am a cynic!

Go Vols!
 
#75
#75
butchna said:
Those “millions and millions” constitute the majority who simply want everyone else to shut the hell up.
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Those people generally belong to political parties, and neither one "hates football." That's dumb and saying it's "hated" because it's American and because women can't play is ten times dumber. Not least because there are women's professional leagues already, and essentially every sport we follow is American.
 
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