Our two party system is broken.

#126
#126
Vol Main said:
Our senses and scientific instruments detect only a small fraction of the universe. At this time, there are actually confluences of string theory positing the existence of multiple dimensions and universes. Today's science is actually far stranger than yesterday's fiction.
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Please post more. People dont understand, a whole other dimension could be inches from our face and we would never know it, unless we were equipt to recieve the information. We are so limited in how our senses take in and perceive outside stimuli. We are basicly deaf, blind and dumb in the grand scheme of the universe (multiverse makes more sense to me).
 
#127
#127
PKT_VOL said:
It is fairly simple.

Let's posit that there is a standard marker on a table in an otherwise empty room. Now, lets say that there are four people in the room. Each person will see the room, each other, and most importantly the marker (the focal point) slightly different or very different depending on their physiology. Each person is focused on the same marker (ultimate reality) but are "seeing" something slightly different as if they were witnessing the same thing through different prisms or glasses. Each person's interpretation of the marker (ultimate reality) becomes their own "personal reality".

The problem with your post, and extreme rationalism in general, is that it negates the power of experience. At some point, even the most stringent rationalist must concede that one's concept of personal reality is rooted in empiricism (experience). You are correct in asserting that one will never truly know or understand ultimate reality; one can only have a perception of ultimate reality. However, only being able to have a perception of ultimate reality due to physiological limitations is not a logically valid reason to dismiss the concept or idea of an ultimate reality outside of a thinking being (yourself).

After all, where does one get their concept of reality if there isn't an "original" reality from which the observer draws their perception from?
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This is strong, right here...
 
#128
#128
Rasputin_Vol said:
This is strong, right here...
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Cool. But, i never negated personal experience. I said personal experience and our perception of that experience is the only thing we are aware of. Thus making it reality. Your way off base with your interpretation of my statements. Go back and read them carefully. Not trying to offend anyone.
 
#129
#129
PKT_VOL said:
It is fairly simple.

Let's posit that there is a standard marker on a table in an otherwise empty room. Now, lets say that there are four people in the room. Each person will see the room, each other, and most importantly the marker (the focal point) slightly different or very different depending on their physiology. Each person is focused on the same marker (ultimate reality) but are "seeing" something slightly different as if they were witnessing the same thing through different prisms or glasses. Each person's interpretation of the marker (ultimate reality) becomes their own "personal reality".

The problem with your post, and extreme rationalism in general, is that it negates the power of experience. At some point, even the most stringent rationalist must concede that one's concept of personal reality is rooted in empiricism (experience). You are correct in asserting that one will never truly know or understand ultimate reality; one can only have a perception of ultimate reality. However, only being able to have a perception of ultimate reality due to physiological limitations is not a logically valid reason to dismiss the concept or idea of an ultimate reality outside of a thinking being (yourself).

After all, where does one get their concept of reality if there isn't an "original" reality from which the observer draws their perception from?
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Consciousness of Reality
 
#134
#134
PKT_VOL said:
What was the point of posting this? Good video of breaking down the double slit experiment though.
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The fact that when observed the photons changed their behavior. I think it ties in to perceiving(observing) and the fact that what we observe can trick us.
 
#135
#135
PKT_VOL said:
Which do you subscribe to?

I tend to believe that reality is nothing more than a computer simulation of some kind. I realize that "computer" is not really a good word to use but I'll use it for a lack of a better word at 1am.
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All matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration. We are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves.
 
#136
#136
IMO the only 3rd party that can work is the libertarian party. The problem other 3rd parties run into is they start as single-issue parties, and they can't grow because they always end up with factions as other issues come into play. The libertarian party is built on one issue that is all encompassing, and that is freedom. It helps orient you on every single issue, and it's amazing how few issues libertarians disagree on. There's some division over abortion, and some over immigration, but that's pretty much it.
 
#138
#138
JDogInDaHouse said:
All matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration. We are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves.
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You are going to have to explain more here. It is not making much sense.
 
#139
#139
JDogInDaHouse said:
The fact that when observed the photons changed their behavior. I think it ties in to perceiving(observing) and the fact that what we observe can trick us.
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Of course, we are not smart enough to comprehend the complexity of the world around us.
 
#140
#140
PKT, would you agree that when you "trip" it is NOT a "hallucination", but a "red pill" allowing the fundamental limitations of human perception to be overcome? And thus, even more real than "reality"? Now I understand why "shaman" were held in such high regard. They were the ones that would take these mind altering chemicals to seek truth, and bring back the knowlege to their people. [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIG25NdOWIs[/YOUTUBE]
 
#141
#141
JDogInDaHouse said:
PKT, would you agree that when you "trip" it is NOT a "hallucination", but a "red pill" allowing the fundamental limitations of human perception to be overcome? And thus, even more real than "reality"? Now I understand why "shaman" were held in such high regard. They were the ones that would take these mind altering chemicals to seek truth, and bring back the knowlege to their people. [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIG25NdOWIs[/YOUTUBE]
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I have no done shrooms or acid yet. I have no desire to do acid due to the likelihood of a bad trip. I do, however, want to do shrooms.

I do not believe that "hallucinations" are any more of a "real" reality than "normal" reality.
 
#143
#143
PKT_VOL said:
I have no done shrooms or acid yet. I have no desire to do acid due to the likelihood of a bad trip. I do, however, want to do shrooms.

I do not believe that "hallucinations" are any more of a "real" reality than "normal" reality.
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I mispoke. My question should have been, Do you believe "halucinations" are no more of a "halucination" than "reality"? I have done both. I had a blast on both. Weak or close minded, unaware people don't handle "halucinagens" well. For adventurous, intelligent, strong and open minded people, it is an enjoyable experience.
 
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#144
#144
PKT_VOL said:
bump
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Like the housewife in the LSD experiment video I posted says, "I cant tell you about it. If you can't see it, you will never know..." I can only tell you what it is not. Once you eat some psilocybin mushrooms you will know what im talking about...
 
#145
#145
JDogInDaHouse said:
I mispoke. My question should have been, Do you believe "halucinations" are no more of a "halucination" than "reality"? I have done both. I had a blast on both. Weak or close minded, unaware people don't handle "halucinagens" well. For adventurous, intelligent, strong and open minded people, it is an enjoyable experience.
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I don't doubt that it is.

But I do not believe hallucinogenics give the user a better sense of objective truth. In fact, I would say that it probably takes the user further away from objective truth.

On the contrary, I believe that hallucinogenics give the user a better sense of subjective truth.
 
#146
#146
JDogInDaHouse said:
Like the housewife in the LSD experiment video I posted says, "I cant tell you about it. If you can't see it, you will never know..." I can only tell you what it is not. Once you eat some psilocybin mushrooms you will know what im talking about...
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That is a subjective experience. Your experience wasn't her experience and vice versa. I was just asking for you to articulate what you feel objective reality is most like.
 
#147
#147
JDogInDaHouse said:
I mispoke. My question should have been, Do you believe "halucinations" are no more of a "halucination" than "reality"? I have done both. I had a blast on both. Weak or close minded, unaware people don't handle "halucinagens" well. For adventurous, intelligent, strong and open minded people, it is an enjoyable experience.
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Really, really wrong. Same person, same drugs, same batch of drugs, different days, different trip. Sometimes good, sometimes not so good, sometimes really bad.
 
#148
#148
Danl said:
Really, really wrong. Same person, same drugs, same batch of drugs, different days, different trip. Sometimes good, sometimes not so good, sometimes really bad.
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Ive never had a bad trip. Most bad trips are the result of "bad acid" produced by high school dropouts using stolen chemicals. The real stuff is clean.
 
#149
#149
PKT_VOL said:
That is a subjective experience. Your experience wasn't her experience and vice versa. I was just asking for you to articulate what you feel objective reality is most like.
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I dont have the vocab to explain the things I have seen, and the way they made me feel. I would never betray the experience with words.
 
#150
#150
Danl said:
Really, really wrong. Same person, same drugs, same batch of drugs, different days, different trip. Sometimes good, sometimes not so good, sometimes really bad.
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[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsPtpKdS-vE[/YOUTUBE]
 
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