Our passing game or lack of passing game?

#1
Big Orange #1

Big Orange #1

In Huep we trust!!
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#1
Ladies and Gents, let me say first off I'm just as frustrated as everyone else. Ive had a pit in my stomach since last night. I have so many questions about or football team but this is my observation and question?

Do our coaches really coach and improve our guys?

Lets look at these stats from last night:

Passing:
Dobbs: 13-31 for 125

Recieving:
5* Malone - 2 for 19
4* North - 1 for 9
4* Howard - 1 for 8
4* Jennings - 1 for 5
4* Wolf - 1 for 5
5* Kamara - 1 for 5
5* Williams - 0 for 0

Rushing:
Kamara: 4 for 4 (really 4 touches)

What the heck is going on? Look at these skill players. You are telling me we cant somehow scheme to get these guy open down field?

So my observation is:
1) These guys arent as good as some thought
2) Our coaches can recruit but cant coach these guys and get them the ball in space

or

3) Josh Dobbs just isnt a good passer. Can run and pick up yards but throwing down field he cant put it in the window to become an elite passer.

Im frustrated yes, but the proof is in the stats. Stats dont lie. Having all these skill players and we cant get them the ball. I look at guys that have great days catching the ball and they arent half as talented as our guys. This is on coaching. I dont know if its coaching and making our guys better or coaching meaning they dont know how to get our guys the ball in space and let me make a play.

Coach Z is a good recruiter but im starting to believe he cant coach a lick. We are WRU and at this rate why would a top notch receiver want to come play here if we cant ever get them the ball??

This team needs to learn how to win. It starts from the coaching staff and its sad to say i dont think that our coaches know how to win. So if they dont know how to win how in the world are they going to teach our guys how to win.

Just a little rant i needed to get off my chest and discuss with VN. Last night made me sick and im starting to question our staff.
 
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#3
#3
I'm starting to think we won't have a passing game until Guarantano is here or Domady takes over. I'm really not sold on Dobbs passing ability.
 
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#4
#4
This team has learned how to win just not.close out games. That has to come next. Glad it was here before the UF game. Hopefully they will learn.
 
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#5
#5
Biopsyman said:
The forward pass is a new concept
Click to expand...

And all dobbs passes were to the sideline, screens or throw aways to keep from being sacked. The few slants and crossing routes he threw were bullets, that throw to Malone was unbelievable. With that said there isn't anyone who can say that dobbs can't throw downfield because he hasnt yet had a chance to.
 
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#8
#8
Lots of complaints about Worley last year and how many times he was sacked against OK. But it seems they got to Dobbs quite a bit too. Worley stood in there and made plays - he moved the offense down the field despite having a porous and young offensive line. Dobbs and company could not pick up a first down in the 4th quarter and our more experienced line could not open up any running lanes (broken record).

Dobbs will have some good games this year, but Missouri and Oklahoma have both shown how easy it is to shut him and this Deboring offense down. If we don't turn to page 3 in the playbook (or find a new one) it might be another long and frustrating year
 
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#10
#10
No one can pass downfield when they are selling out to stop you. Quick slants or screens to slow the rush, we did neither. They were selling out on the run on 1st then blurting on 2nd and 3rd. Coaches needed to do some coaching chit at that point, instead they ran face into it over and over.
 
#11
#11
On the interception in 2ot watch north release 2 more yards down the field. This allows the db to under cut for the pick. At the point the ball was in the air north was 1 yard past the first down marker. What happened to come back and high point the ball? Poor play by north that in no way helped his qb.
The pass was short and should have led north away from the db but how many times have we seen vol receivers poorly adjust to a ball in the air. The db continued on his line and north vacated down field allowing the pick.
I'm no longer curious as to why he is not getting targets.
If this has been discussed I'm sorry I missed it.
 
#12
#12
One of the big deals about this is that it eventually will effect recruiting.

People will negative recruit the heck out of this.
 
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#13
#13
Dobbs passes seem to take off on him.Hope he can figure it out and drop the ball in the recievers hands.I'll hang up and listen.
 
#14
#14
A lot Of teams are going to put 8 to 9 players in the box like Oklahoma did and force Dodds to beat them with his arm and I just don't know if he can.
 
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#15
#15
99gator said:
One of the big deals about this is that it eventually will effect recruiting.

People will negative recruit the heck out of this.
Click to expand...

BS . Losing to osu didn't hurt bama one bit, barely beating mid level programs could though. :question:
 
#16
#16
Dobbs didn't have a lot time to find open receivers last night. OU brought extra guys just about the whole second half. Slants, screens, maybe keep the ball a few times on those dive plays to Hurd. This Oline still isn't very good and Dobbs isn't very good at passing the ball. That's a bad combo.
 
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#17
#17
deaconkane said:
And all dobbs passes were to the sideline, screens or throw aways to keep from being sacked. The few slants and crossing routes he threw were bullets, that throw to Malone was unbelievable. With that said there isn't anyone who can say that dobbs can't throw downfield because he hasnt yet had a chance to.
Click to expand...

I think you just defined the concerns about Dobbs passing abilities or lack thereof. The staff is calling all safe routes . They have a concern about his passing ability that is evidenced by their hesitation to start him over Worley and that they give him safe passes ....and they want to rely on the run whenever possible. Dobbs threw downfield on the last play of the game ...with the TE wide open underneath in first down territory .

Dobbs is a fine QB within his skill set and can hope to develop as a passer ...but it is obvious that we do not have Manning under center ,
 
#18
#18
Our pass scheme and plays apparently sux. When you are getting pressured, struggling to run, what do you do--throw short to the TE, throw to your backs. How many times did we target the TEs? How many times did we target our BEST receiver--howard: 1? 2? How many times did we target our biggest receiver, and a guy with great hands, who should have been a factor in this game--North? 1? I'm convinced our coaches do NOT know how to coach up a passing game. The scheming and play-calling and execution in the pass game were all terrible last night. If you throw only pass to Howard, you are being stupid. And the same with North. Even if he is not great at getting open, the guy has got size and hands--get him the ball and gain 5/6 yards.
 
#19
#19
Big Orange #1 said:
Ladies and Gents, let me say first off I'm just as frustrated as everyone else. Ive had a pit in my stomach since last night. I have so many questions about or football team but this is my observation and question?

Do our coaches really coach and improve our guys?

Lets look at these stats from last night:

Passing:
Dobbs: 13-31 for 125

Recieving:
5* Malone - 2 for 19
4* North - 1 for 9
4* Howard - 1 for 8
4* Jennings - 1 for 5
4* Wolf - 1 for 5
5* Kamara - 1 for 5
5* Williams - 0 for 0

Rushing:
Kamara: 4 for 4 (really 4 touches)

What the heck is going on? Look at these skill players. You are telling me we cant somehow scheme to get these guy open down field?

So my observation is:
1) These guys arent as good as some thought
2) Our coaches can recruit but cant coach these guys and get them the ball in space

or

3) Josh Dobbs just isnt a good passer. Can run and pick up yards but throwing down field he cant put it in the window to become an elite passer.

Im frustrated yes, but the proof is in the stats. Stats dont lie. Having all these skill players and we cant get them the ball. I look at guys that have great days catching the ball and they arent half as talented as our guys. This is on coaching. I dont know if its coaching and making our guys better or coaching meaning they dont know how to get our guys the ball in space and let me make a play.

Coach Z is a good recruiter but im starting to believe he cant coach a lick. We are WRU and at this rate why would a top notch receiver want to come play here if we cant ever get them the ball??

This team needs to learn how to win. It starts from the coaching staff and its sad to say i dont think that our coaches know how to win. So if they dont know how to win how in the world are they going to teach our guys how to win.

Just a little rant i needed to get off my chest and discuss with VN. Last night made me sick and im starting to question our staff.
Click to expand...

Ok so I can't really argue with this. I think the problem is the same as last year. We have a crap Oline that only looks better because the QB isn't standing there waiting to get killed like Worley. And to make it worse we have a horrible playbook and even worse play caller. The read option is a great offense, but the QB needs time to make a read. When the oline can't block for crap you're not gonna have a DE or LB spying to read, he's just gonna shoot threw the line and hit both the QB and RB at the handoff/read in the back field.
The other problem is young talented WRs with no senior leaders that know what it takes to win. So when the play breaks down, which is most, they just stand and stare at Dobbs waiting to block for him rather than running to find a hole to get open. I mean how many times was Dobbs taken down by multiple defenders. That means that either a DB, LB or DE broke off coverage and instead of running downfield to give Dobbs an option they just chased behind the defender essentially doing nothing.
Yes thats on the coaches but with our team being so young they are just trying to teach these kids how to run the plays, trying to teach them the entire playbook. SO this is where senior leadership steps up on most teams, but we just don't have that. All our seniors have a deeply ingrained losing mentality and our youngsters don't have the experience to know what to teach and how to motivate the others.

CBJ needed to realize that he could change the style of playcalling without changing the playbook. But instead he went and hired a guy that would keep everything the exact same, even though it was painfully obvious that it was a problem last year. He needs to find a read option OC that will take chances and actually knows how to analyze a game as its happening and adjust accordingly. Not just prep for a game, write a playcall script and refuse to go away from it no matter how bad its failing or a few adjustments would help.

Regardless we need to give CBJ at least 2 more years as long as recruiting stays in the top 20. The last thing we need is to dump another coach so fast and probably end up with another Dooley. Yes I did see the comment Gruden made this summer, but its not happening people, at least not until we have a deeper roster than we have now.
 
#20
#20
JFBanicki said:
Ok so I can't really argue with this. I think the problem is the same as last year. We have a crap Oline that only looks better because the QB isn't standing there waiting to get killed like Worley. And to make it worse we have a horrible playbook and even worse play caller. The read option is a great offense, but the QB needs time to make a read. When the oline can't block for crap you're not gonna have a DE or LB spying to read, he's just gonna shoot threw the line and hit both the QB and RB at the handoff/read in the back field.
The other problem is young talented WRs with no senior leaders that know what it takes to win. So when the play breaks down, which is most, they just stand and stare at Dobbs waiting to block for him rather than running to find a hole to get open. I mean how many times was Dobbs taken down by multiple defenders. That means that either a DB, LB or DE broke off coverage and instead of running downfield to give Dobbs an option they just chased behind the defender essentially doing nothing.
Yes thats on the coaches but with our team being so young they are just trying to teach these kids how to run the plays, trying to teach them the entire playbook. SO this is where senior leadership steps up on most teams, but we just don't have that. All our seniors have a deeply ingrained losing mentality and our youngsters don't have the experience to know what to teach and how to motivate the others.

CBJ needed to realize that he could change the style of playcalling without changing the playbook. But instead he went and hired a guy that would keep everything the exact same, even though it was painfully obvious that it was a problem last year. He needs to find a read option OC that will take chances and actually knows how to analyze a game as its happening and adjust accordingly. Not just prep for a game, write a playcall script and refuse to go away from it no matter how bad its failing or a few adjustments would help.

Regardless we need to give CBJ at least 2 more years as long as recruiting stays in the top 20. The last thing we need is to dump another coach so fast and probably end up with another Dooley. Yes I did see the comment Gruden made this summer, but its not happening people, at least not until we have a deeper roster than we have now.
Click to expand...

I agree and disagree with some of your points . I think the biggest issue is Dobbs ability as a passer. There was a reason he did not get the start over Worley and Peterman and there is a reason that the coaches want to rely on Dobbs and the teams running ability . All of the pass plays are single read , easy execution passes . You ever wonder why an offense that has historically been wide open , with a layered west coast passing tree and athletes all over the field is playing it so close to the vest ? There is a concern with QB execution in the passing game . Be it football intelligence , inaccuracy , inability ...I dont know ...but the concern is there . Maybe Dobbs can develop as the season progresses
 
#21
#21
The biggest problem is the oline and coaching. He did well the first half. The second half drops and bad calls killed the passing game, along with the oline collapsing.
 
#22
#22
It's amazing to see how many Div 1A SEC head coaches we have in the forums. The university knows the fan base and boosters won't support a head coach that can't lead his team to victory. There's a dollar sign behind every decision and right now, they feel that Butch is the right decision. Butch also knows that he needs to make the right calls. The coaches and athletic department I'm sure are fully aware of everyone's potential and what needs to happen to make it to the next level. Dynasties aren't built in a year, two, or even three. In those years, you're just laying the foundation. This team wasn't really supposed to compete until next year. A higher ranked, perennial powerhouse came and our Vols had their way with them for most of the game. Some breaks went their way and we made some poor decisions. We're a young team. We're still learning. This team will still do great things. You'll see. There's still plenty football left and plenty of heart on this team. The kids feel it and want it just as much. It'll come together. Have some patience and keep supporting the team. We have to keep showing them that we have their backs.
 
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#23
#23
99gator said:
One of the big deals about this is that it eventually will effect recruiting.

People will negative recruit the heck out of this.
Click to expand...

As they should. Its there for EVERYONE to see. We dont use the weapons that we have. Other teams HEAVILY rely on their weapons. Why do you recruit all of these 4-5 star playmakers if your not going to use them???
 
#24
#24
This offense will never put up good passing numbers. It's not something a Jones or DeBord offense has EVER done. Even when DeBord had all world QBs at Michigan.
 
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