Orangeslice13, a blessing to those around him…..Again

#7,326
#7,326
Orangeslice13 said:
I agree with your post but would like to add that I wish people would include VS 10 when quoting Ephesians as it clarifies the result of that free gift.

10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

There’s no condemnation and people stumble but Believing in Jesus isn’t a permit to sin.
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Which is exactly what I said. Maybe you’re agreeing, but doing so in your own way...?


Girth Brooks said:
Salvation is a lifestyle. God’s sheep will stumble, but they will NOT live a lifestyle of sin. You cannot be one with the Father and be lost. You’re either in unity or not, due to your faith in Christ, where all burdens were nailed to the cross, freed with redemption three days later.
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@Orangeslice13

To go along with v. 10, salvation begets good works. Anyone who is saved will inherently do good works because they are adopted into the family of God, which does not refute my initial premise—works can neither save nor “lose” you.
 
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#7,327
#7,327
Girth Brooks said:
Which is exactly what I said. Maybe you’re agreeing, but doing so in your own way...?
Click to expand...

I was.
I’ve just heard people justify living in sin by leaving out versus 10. I was just solidifying your point.

btw the reason we’re doing this here instead of the Bible thread is an attempt to be respectful of each other’s beliefs. If you felt I was being argumentative then.....you’re wrong!! (That’s a joke) .....I didn’t intend it to be argumentative.
 
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#7,328
#7,328
@Orangeslice13 know anyone that may be interested in a 1997 flat bed IHC 4700? 448k miles, air ride, diesel, AT. A friend of mine is liquidating his FIL's estate located in Crossville.
IMG_0620.jpgIMG_0618.jpgIMG_0619.jpgIMG_0621.jpg
 
#7,331
#7,331
#7,339
#7,339
@GVF
I’m about to support your position from my point of view. While it doesn’t mean I am any closer to what I think it is interesting.

Messiah says
Matt 5:18
For asuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

——-Again, from my beliefs the law is still the definition of sin and will be till “heaven and earth” pass away”

Rev 21:1

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

——after the end of all things the first (current) heaven and earth do in fact pass away.
That would lend credence to the end of the definition of sin/the law. It could be assumed that would also be the end of all Sin/free will.

More thoughts coming but that’s where I’m headed for now
 
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#7,340
#7,340
Orangeslice13 said:
@GVF
I’m about to support your position from my point of view. While it doesn’t mean I am any closer to what I think it is interesting.

Messiah says
Matt 5:18
For asuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

——-Again, from my beliefs the law is still the definition of sin and will be till “heaven and earth” pass away”

Rev 21:1

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

——after the end of all things the first (current) heaven and earth do in fact pass away.
That would lend credence to the end of the definition of sin/the law. It could be assumed that would also be the end of all Sin/free will.

More thoughts coming but that’s where I’m headed for now
Click to expand...


I think the main difference is that being of Jewish foundation in your faith, coupled with NT Christian beliefs, you view the entire of the bible as law. I think I'm correct in paraphrasing it that way? As a NT Christian not founded in any Jewish or Catholic beliefs, I view Christ as having replaced the Old Law and perfected it though his death. Not that any Law went away, just perfected through the fulfillment of prophecy. And not that the Old Law isn't important to us in many ways, I just prescribe that my life before God will be based on the New Law. At the end of the day, we both believe in New Testament salvation, and we both try to live by it. It's a point of interest and discussion, but not a foundational right or wrong issue if you take more stock in the old law being more incorporated into your beliefs than I do.

I've been swamped last couple days. Still intend to look over this more (Actually, I think it was the other discussion about heaven on earth). As to this one, I still contend that Hebrews 7-9 deal with my belief in detail about Old and New Law.
 
#7,341
#7,341
@Orangeslice13

Hebrews8:
6 But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises.


7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8 But God found fault with the people and said[b]:

“The days are coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
9 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them,
declares the Lord.
10 This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
11 No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
12 For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”[c]

13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
 
#7,342
#7,342
I associate it to this if your following Yeshua than your also following the law. He never once taught to break it.

As for it replacing the old law, I would think encompasses it would be a better fit because there is nothing new under the sun. Jmho
 
#7,344
#7,344
@Orangeslice13
From Heb. 9:
6 When everything had been arranged like this, the priests entered regularly into the outer room to carry on their ministry. 7 But only the high priest entered the inner room, and that only once a year, and never without blood, which he offered for himself and for the sins the people had committed in ignorance. 8 The Holy Spirit was showing by this that the way into the Most Holy Place had not yet been disclosed as long as the first tabernacle was still functioning. 9 This is an illustration for the present time, indicating that the gifts and sacrifices being offered were not able to clear the conscience of the worshiper. 10 They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings—external regulations applying until the time of the new order.

15 For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

22 In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness. 23 It was necessary, then, for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these sacrifices, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ did not enter a sanctuary made with human hands that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God’s presence. 25 Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. 26 Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Should have started back in Chapter 7, but I didn't want to paste in random order, so you can pick up chapter 7 if you like. Anyhoo...this is why I contend the Old Law was replaced by the New Law. Not so much one Law went away, but it was perfected though Christ's death, making the Old Law obsolete. For techies, it was an operating system update.
 
#7,345
#7,345
vol445 said:
I associate it to this if your following Yeshua than your also following the law. He never once taught to break it.

As for it replacing the old law, I would think encompasses it would be a better fit because there is nothing new under the sun. Jmho
Click to expand...

The new would be that ordinary Joe Smo has direct access to God and salvation under the new law because Christ covered all sins for all people with his own blood. There was no more need for priests and such to makes those blood offerings each year to cover their sins. Christ made a one time sacrifice.

Encompass was a good choice of words. What went away, were the physical or ceremonial practices required under the old law to atone sin. The foundation of why you did it is still prevalent under the New testament.
 
#7,346
#7,346
Orangeslice13 said:
@GVF
I’m about to support your position from my point of view. While it doesn’t mean I am any closer to what I think it is interesting.

Messiah says
Matt 5:18
For asuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

——-Again, from my beliefs the law is still the definition of sin and will be till “heaven and earth” pass away”

Rev 21:1

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

——after the end of all things the first (current) heaven and earth do in fact pass away.
That would lend credence to the end of the definition of sin/the law. It could be assumed that would also be the end of all Sin/free will.

More thoughts coming but that’s where I’m headed for now
Click to expand...

Actually, I think you have some good thoughts there, going the direction I'm in. The entire basis is that when Christ comes again, he will bring with him the judgement, and we will be rewarded either heaven or hell. Heaven and earth, as we know and perceive it will pass, along with law/sin.
 
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#7,347
#7,347
GVF said:
I think the main difference is that being of Jewish foundation in your faith, coupled with NT Christian beliefs, you view the entire of the bible as law. I think I'm correct in paraphrasing it that way? As a NT Christian not founded in any Jewish or Catholic beliefs, I view Christ as having replaced the Old Law and perfected it though his death. Not that any Law went away, just perfected through the fulfillment of prophecy. And not that the Old Law isn't important to us in many ways, I just prescribe that my life before God will be based on the New Law. At the end of the day, we both believe in New Testament salvation, and we both try to live by it. It's a point of interest and discussion, but not a foundational right or wrong issue if you take more stock in the old law being more incorporated into your beliefs than I do.

I've been swamped last couple days. Still intend to look over this more (Actually, I think it was the other discussion about heaven on earth). As to this one, I still contend that Hebrews 7-9 deal with my belief in detail about Old and New Law.
Click to expand...
I was speaking more to the sin in the afterlife with my thoughts.
 
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#7,348
#7,348
GVF said:
@Orangeslice13

Hebrews8:
6 But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises.


7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8 But God found fault with the people and said[b]:

“The days are coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
9 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them,
declares the Lord.
10 This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
11 No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
12 For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”[c]

13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
Click to expand...

Good stuff.

That covenant is with Israel (Gentiles and the 11) and Judah (Jews ). The punishment is all that is complete for believers. The law will still be the standard by which the nonbelievers are condemned.

You’ve heard me say there’s nothing new under the sun (proverbs)

Well here’s where Hebrews 8 got their information. Jeremiah 31.
Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. 33 “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”
 
#7,349
#7,349
Jeremiah is pretty clear on this. The rules haven’t changed. And were not going too. The “new covenant” will mean that people will no longer study or be taught. Even those who reject G-d will know G-d. It’s clearly that Messiah was the first fruits of that promise but we’re not there yet. As all the promises made by G-d through Jeremiah Do not currently exist and never have
 
#7,350
#7,350
GVF said:
Actually, I think you have some good thoughts there, going the direction I'm in. The entire basis is that when Christ comes again, he will bring with him the judgement, and we will be rewarded either heaven or hell. Heaven and earth, as we know and perceive it will pass, along with law/sin.
Click to expand...

That’s where my thinking is at the moment.
 
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