One last comment from me tonight:

#26

Winston Smith

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#26
The refs have been beyond shameful all season, especially against us. There were two horrible calls on TK, especially the 5th foul. Zia Cooke slid across the floor with the ball and no travel was called. Boston threw elbows all night, but I'm glad we won!!
South Carolina gets away with so much and Boston just knocks opponents around like she's a damn roller derby hippo?? Then Staley whines to the officials about whatever and .......?? It was sooooo nice sending her whiney a$$ home with a loss & the Lady Vols pulling it out!!!
 
#27

Winston Smith

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#27
The last foul on Key .... you could see Boston use her chicken wing wrapped around Key !!!! And then fell down ! This type of holding a defensive player with your elbow hooked around their body is at best a High School move ..... NOBODY GETS AWAY WITH THIS NOW ???? Maybe these were high school refs ? 😈
Staley brought the refs in with her from the local kindergarden league??
 
#29

glv98

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#29
Power.

It corrupts, and it attracts the corrupted or corruptible.

Some people become refs because they are petty little bitches who like showing everyone who is boss. Others because they like to be the center of attention.

Those are just a couple of obvious reasons.

There have also been multiple scandals where refs were being paid. That is less likely in women's basketball because no one really cares enough to bet on it. But it has happened at every level of men's basketball. Other times there is a tacit agreement to protect the rankings of certain teams because huge amounts of money are involved such as in SEC football. Or it could be political with refs effectively cancelling coaches and programs who they feel do not subscribe to the correct orthodoxy on one issue or another.

But just liking or disliking a particular program or coach is more than enough motivation. We live in a world where people become nurses or doctors because they want to be serial killers, pedophiles seek out professions which interact with children etc... Refereeing with bias because you like the feeling of power is small potatoes compared to that and yet all of those things happen constantly. It would be naive to think that there aren't people who enjoy determining who wins or loses, or seeing what they can get away with.

No, the far more difficult question is how could a human being officiate without bias? Such a thing is not possible.

Also, there are psychological effects such as the tendency to see only what you look for and miss other obvious things as a consequence. Most of you have probably seen the experiment where people are told to count how many times the players in white jerseys pass the ball to each other, and everyone who watches the video with that in mind misses the guy in the gorilla suit who waltzes through the group of players and waves at everyone. This is because the viewers are intent on looking for what they have been told to look for.

Of course, it would also help if we didn't recruit most of our referees at the Alcoholics Anonymous Chapter which meets on the campus of Gallaudet University.
Wow. What a dark, scary place so many people choose to live in these days. Where the grossest aberration is embraced as the norm, everyone is out to get you, and nothing is as it seems. Occam's razor is just a grooming tool.

Maybe it makes me naive, but I ain't moving to that neighborhood. Not yet.

So for me, refs are still just too frequently incompetent and unable to overcome subconscious bias, not power mad megalomaniacs involved in mass conspiracy aimed specifically at the University of Tennessee in all athletic endeavors.
 
#30

feathersax

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#30
I'm 74 yrs. old and never seen a BB game the refs didn't mess up somehow.Even bias has entered the fray at times.Best thing to do is watch the games and try to ignor bad refs,let the coaches deal with that and be happy!
Exactly. This coach had a knack for dealing with such things: the LOOK.
 

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#31

GUNTERSVOL

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#31
“Why would they care who wins?” Easy answer, they’re human
The refs complicate matters when they cozy up along the sidelines with one coach and are very dismissive or even avoid the coach on the other end. I went back and re-watched the game and Key deserves an apology letter from the league office. You can't fake the shock on Horston's face over that call at the foul line. The ole both ways argument requires some reasonable distribution of the bad calls, not 80-20.
 
#33

Hbg

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#33
The refs complicate matters when they cozy up along the sidelines with one coach and are very dismissive or even avoid the coach on the other end. I went back and re-watched the game and Key deserves an apology letter from the league office. You can't fake the shock on Horston's face over that call at the foul line. The ole both ways argument requires some reasonable distribution of the bad calls, not 80-20.
Refereeing ALWAYS has the human equation involved and I always wonder about the $$$$ factor as well, especially big games and especially big football games. IMO anyone would be a fool to believe otherwise.
 
#34

Voluble2

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#34
Wow. What a dark, scary place so many people choose to live in these days. Where the grossest aberration is embraced as the norm, everyone is out to get you, and nothing is as it seems. Occam's razor is just a grooming tool.

Maybe it makes me naive, but I ain't moving to that neighborhood. Not yet.

So for me, refs are still just too frequently incompetent and unable to overcome subconscious bias, not power mad megalomaniacs involved in mass conspiracy aimed specifically at the University of Tennessee in all athletic endeavors.
Your post is a good example of the irrationalism and selective perception I was describing since nothing you say really directly addresses anything I said or any opinion I hold.

You might want to notice for instance that you are the only one talking about a formal conspiracy. I gave you several methods by which one can arrive at the same behavior by other means.

And boy are you going to be surprised when you finally meet a human being if you think a lot of them aren't petty and don't enjoy abusing their power.
 
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#35

glv98

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#35
Your post is a good example of the irrationalism and selective perception I was describing since nothing you say really directly addresses anything I said or any opinion I hold.

You might want to notice for instance that you are the only one talking about a formal conspiracy. I gave you several methods by which one can arrive at the same behavior by other means.

And boy are you going to be surprised when you finally meet a human being if you think a lot of them aren't petty and don't enjoy abusing their power.
Sorry if I misread. Something about the power tripping, the pay scandals, the agreement to protect higher rankings for money and the opportunity to cancel coaches that irk them sure sounded pretty intentional and conspiratorial to me. Don't even get me started on the pedophiles and serial killers.

I won't be surprised some people are petty, corruptable, and crave power. I will be surprised if they are able to carry out their mischief in full view while hundreds of people go along with it. But that's just me. You do you, and watch out, they're after you!!
 
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#36

glv98

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#36
I'm not sure why anyone would invest a second in any sport in which they believed the officials running the games to be outright corrupt or unable to ever overcome unconscious bias.

Of course subconscious bias creeps in, often relied on when ability fails. But if I thought it was pervasive, and certainly if I thought it was intentional and approved I sure wouldn't give it the time of day. I'd watch rasslin'!
 
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#37

Lucy

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#37
Power.

It corrupts, and it attracts the corrupted or corruptible.

Some people become refs because they are petty little bitches who like showing everyone who is boss. Others because they like to be the center of attention.

Those are just a couple of obvious reasons.

There have also been multiple scandals where refs were being paid. That is less likely in women's basketball because no one really cares enough to bet on it. But it has happened at every level of men's basketball. Other times there is a tacit agreement to protect the rankings of certain teams because huge amounts of money are involved such as in SEC football. Or it could be political with refs effectively cancelling coaches and programs who they feel do not subscribe to the correct orthodoxy on one issue or another.

But just liking or disliking a particular program or coach is more than enough motivation. We live in a world where people become nurses or doctors because they want to be serial killers, pedophiles seek out professions which interact with children etc... Refereeing with bias because you like the feeling of power is small potatoes compared to that and yet all of those things happen constantly. It would be naive to think that there aren't people who enjoy determining who wins or loses, or seeing what they can get away with.

No, the far more difficult question is how could a human being officiate without bias? Such a thing is not possible.

Also, there are psychological effects such as the tendency to see only what you look for and miss other obvious things as a consequence. Most of you have probably seen the experiment where people are told to count how many times the players in white jerseys pass the ball to each other, and everyone who watches the video with that in mind misses the guy in the gorilla suit who waltzes through the group of players and waves at everyone. This is because the viewers are intent on looking for what they have been told to look for.

Of course, it would also help if we didn't recruit most of our referees at the Alcoholics Anonymous Chapter which meets on the campus of Gallaudet University.
Wow!! What color is the sky in your world?
Get outside today. Take a walk in the sunshine if possible. There’s lots of good out there!
 
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#38

madtownvol

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#38
Sorry if I misread. Something about the power tripping, the pay scandals, the agreement to protect higher rankings for money and the opportunity to cancel coaches that irk them sure sounded pretty intentional and conspiratorial to me. Don't even get me started on the pedophiles and serial killers.

I won't be surprised some people are petty, corruptable, and crave power. I will be surprised if they are able to carry out their mischief in full view while hundreds of people go along with it. But that's just me. You do you, and watch out, they're after you!!

Per Voluble2, there have been documented cases of refs in the NBA and European soccer leagues (among others) who were bribed or working with gambling interest to influence scores. So, it happens but as Voluble2 also noted there is not enough $ in the women's game for that to be a likely culprit, so it is kind of irrelevant. Its like saying LV games are fixed becasue Al Capone once ruled Chicago. These are unrelated circumstances.

The Occam's razor principle suggest we look for the simplest explanation and a grand conspiracy against the LVs by women's b-ball officials seems a bit intricate and more to the point, the pattern of bad reffing is a ubiquitous problem that rears its ugly head for all teams and all contests.
 
#39

GUNTERSVOL

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#39
Refereeing ALWAYS has the human equation involved and I always wonder about the $$$$ factor as well, especially big games and especially big football games. IMO anyone would be a fool to believe otherwise.
I am not a big believer in the refs on the take angle, too easy to end a career with one slip up. But I do think the expectation of the line on the game, and yielding to the NAME of certain coaches can influence close calls and more so close no calls. It does not help when the talking heads on replays of bad calls say stupid stuff like the player should not reach in and make it appear like a foul.... no contact is no contact, and unless the rules have changed the hand is still part of the ball. The worst calls the other night were when SC players would back into a defender with the ball or to push a rebounder who had already established position and get foul calls or no calls and get the board. Way too many of those if you go back and watch. Then when you add on a call like Key's 5th which wreaked of bias it gets harder to avoid conspiracy theories On top of that the refs ignored Key's rep for great defending without committing fouls. Three maybe four of her her fouls were at a minimum suspect.
 
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