One Korea ... Soon?

#101
#101
Grand Vol said:
Sad for you, but if peace comes to NK and SK, it will likely be on Trump's watch and he should rightfully get the credit. Just like Reagan got the credit for the fall of Communism in East Europe and the Soviet Union (though it happened on Bush 41's watch) Trump deserves the credit for getting NK back to the table. Let's face facts here, neither Obama nor Bush 43 did much to change the North Korean paradigm while in office.

They really haven't cared about starving their population in order to push the WMD agenda before. Why stop now? What changed other than a President finally saying "I'm your huckleberry" to their petty threats?
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Can’t you see that this is a ruse orchestrated by Putin to give Trump a win and throw the dogs off the scent?
 
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#102
#102
Grand Vol said:
Sad for you, but if peace comes to NK and SK, it will likely be on Trump's watch and he should rightfully get the credit. Just like Reagan got the credit for the fall of Communism in East Europe and the Soviet Union (though it happened on Bush 41's watch) Trump deserves the credit for getting NK back to the table. Let's face facts here, neither Obama nor Bush 43 did much to change the North Korean paradigm while in office.

They really haven't cared about starving their population in order to push the WMD agenda before. Why stop now? What changed other than a President finally saying "I'm your huckleberry" to their petty threats?
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I wouldn't be sad. I just see Trump for what he is. His talk is just comic relief. At this point, I don't think anyone really takes his blustering seriously. It's actions that matter, and in this case, that was tightening of sanctions. If Korea reunifies, that's great, and Trump will deserve some credit, as I said. He's simply not the second coming some folks seem to think he is.
 
#103
#103
Vol_Doc said:
I wouldn't be sad. I just see Trump for what he is. His talk is just comic relief. At this point, I don't think anyone really takes his blustering seriously. It's actions that matter, and in this case, that was tightening of sanctions. If Korea reunifies, that's great, and Trump will deserve some credit, as I said. He's simply not the second coming some folks seem to think he is.
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Who do you think forced the tightening of sanctions?

Unbelievable.
 
#104
#104
ajvol01 said:
The previous 3 presidents served 24 years and did not make any significant progress in North Korea.

Trump's been in office for 15 months and liberals say Trump really deserves little to no credit.

This would be biggest foreign policy win since fall of Soviet Union.
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Not a liberal, thanks. And how long do you think it takes to choke a nation? And do you really think that Kim being dumb enough to actually launch over his neighbors didn't bring other countries, like China, on board? Those same 15 months saw the greatest escalation of Kim's activity since he's been in command. He took a gamble, thinking he could steer opinion against the West. He lost.
 
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#106
#106
Vol_Doc said:
Not a liberal, thanks. And how long do you think it takes to choke a nation? And do you really think that Kim being dumb enough to actually launch over his neighbors didn't bring other countries, like China, on board? Those same 15 months saw the greatest escalation of Kim's activity since he's been in command. He took a gamble, thinking he could steer opinion against the West. He lost.
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If China thought our leadership had no resolve they wouldn’t care what NK did as long as they didn’t start WWIII. China took notice when Trump threatened to hit their pocketbooks.
 
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#107
#107
Vol_Doc said:
If you'd actually read my posts, you'd see that I'm giving Trump credit for the sanctions.
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Actually, no, you didn't.

Vol_Doc said:
Trump does get some credit there, though he didn't originate the sanctions and the US isn't the only country applying them.
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That's a subtle way of saying "Yeah, Trump was boss, but he can't take credit for those sanctions."

Furthermore:

Vol_Doc said:
Credit is given to Trump, but also criticism for his approach potentially inflaming tensions.
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He tried a different tactic, which worked, and you criticize him for it? Definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Trump cold have done the same thing as the last four Presidents in regard to NK and would have gotten the same result. But he got China on board (really, the only country NK will listen to) and really stepped up the pressure. And drew the line on their threats, even as empty as they may be.

Suddenly, they want to talk.

Look, VD, you tend to be a reasonable and rational poster. Everything that's transpired in the last 15 months can be attributed to Trump in regards to NK. He went a completely different route than his predecessors in regards to that one problem and got a positive result from it. Now, time will tell on whether he is successful, but the simple fact remains Kim is coming to the tables to talk and made a huge concession by taking US Forces out of the equation for the moment. He shut down his nuclear program (for the moment) and isn't doing rocket tests. All without demanding anything in return.

You can be objective and criticize Trump on other things he deserves criticism for. But in this instance, you must give credit where credit is due.
 
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#108
#108
Grand Vol said:
Actually, no, you didn't.



That's a subtle way of saying "Yeah, Trump was boss, but he can't take credit for those sanctions."

Furthermore:



He tried a different tactic, which worked, and you criticize him for it? Definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Trump cold have done the same thing as the last four Presidents in regard to NK and would have gotten the same result. But he got China on board (really, the only country NK will listen to) and really stepped up the pressure. And drew the line on their threats, even as empty as they may be.

Suddenly, they want to talk.

Look, VD, you tend to be a reasonable and rational poster. Everything that's transpired in the last 15 months can be attributed to Trump in regards to NK. He went a completely different route than his predecessors in regards to that one problem and got a positive result from it. Now, time will tell on whether he is successful, but the simple fact remains Kim is coming to the tables to talk and made a huge concession by taking US Forces out of the equation for the moment. He shut down his nuclear program (for the moment) and isn't doing rocket tests. All without demanding anything in return.

You can be objective and criticize Trump on other things he deserves criticism for. But in this instance, you must give credit where credit is due.
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You only quoted part of that post. I was crediting him for tightening sanctions while explaining, correctly, that sanctions on NK did not start with Trump. Varying degrees of sanctions have been on NK for years. What I'm not going to give him credit for is playground bravado. I don't think that had any impact. Also, as I said above, I think Kim pushed things too far with missile launches over his neighbors. I acknowledge Trump had a role, just not a Reagan-sized role. He'll gladly take credit for everything, though.
 
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#109
#109
Vol_Doc said:
You only quoted part of that post. I was crediting him for tightening sanctions while explaining, correctly, that sanctions on NK did not start with Trump. Varying degrees of sanctions have been on NK for years. What I'm not going to give him credit for is playground bravado. I don't think that had any impact. Also, as I said above, I think Kim pushed things too far with missile launches over his neighbors. I acknowledge Trump had a role, just not a Reagan-sized role. He'll gladly take credit for everything, though.
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I expected you to be more objective about this. Yes, sanctions had been going on for years. And to what outcome? During those sanctions, NK developed atomic weapons and is on the brink of developing a thermonuclear weapon and long range missiles capable of hitting the mainland US. Yeah, fat lot of good those sanctions did. Trump tightened them and applied pressure from the Chinese angle. Even got them to drop some coal imports from NK and buy ours instead (the green liberals love this) along with additional sanctions that backed KJU into a corner.

All on Trump's watch.

Kim and Papa Kim have been threatening the US for years with nuclear fire and destruction. Most Presidents ignored it. But like my big dog, little dog analogy, Trump finally barked back. KJU threatened Guam with a strike. Trump countered and (paraphrased) said "Not a good idea, Slick, but you just try that."

Kim backed down.

Trump's playground bravado is exactly why Kim is coming to the negotiating table. Obama didn't "bark" at him. Bush 43 didn't "bark" at KJI. Clinton sure as hell didn't. Before that, we had the Cold War posturing which wouldn't have made any of this possible.

Yes, Trump deserves far more credit than you'll bestow on him.
 
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#110
#110
Vol_Doc said:
You only quoted part of that post. I was crediting him for tightening sanctions while explaining, correctly, that sanctions on NK did not start with Trump. Varying degrees of sanctions have been on NK for years. What I'm not going to give him credit for is playground bravado. I don't think that had any impact. Also, as I said above, I think Kim pushed things too far with missile launches over his neighbors. I acknowledge Trump had a role, just not a Reagan-sized role. He'll gladly take credit for everything, though.
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I was wondering how they would frame it to take credit from Trump. No way he had anything to do with this right! OK, give him small credit for being the president when this happened. LOL. Any of the last 3 presidents could have done the same, just didn't have the balls. This NK guy is a clown and his nuclear capabilities are very limited. I doubt very much if he has more than a couple of nukes and very doubtful he could deliver them to any part of the USA with detonation. Trump pulled down the veil and exposed him. Simple as that.
 
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#111
#111
Grand Vol said:
I expected you to be more objective about this. Yes, sanctions had been going on for years. And to what outcome? During those sanctions, NK developed atomic weapons and is on the brink of developing a thermonuclear weapon and long range missiles capable of hitting the mainland US. Yeah, fat lot of good those sanctions did. Trump tightened them and applied pressure from the Chinese angle. Even got them to drop some coal imports from NK and buy ours instead (the green liberals love this) along with additional sanctions that backed KJU into a corner.

All on Trump's watch.

Kim and Papa Kim have been threatening the US for years with nuclear fire and destruction. Most Presidents ignored it. But like my big dog, little dog analogy, Trump finally barked back. KJU threatened Guam with a strike. Trump countered and (paraphrased) said "Not a good idea, Slick, but you just try that."

Kim backed down.

Trump's playground bravado is exactly why Kim is coming to the negotiating table. Obama didn't "bark" at him. Bush 43 didn't "bark" at KJI. Clinton sure as hell didn't. Before that, we had the Cold War posturing which wouldn't have made any of this possible.

Yes, Trump deserves far more credit than you'll bestow on him.
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Listen, I get where you're coming from. I just don't agree. That's fine. This whole thing kicked off with the ludicrous claim that Trump should get the Nobel Peace Prize. That's what I was pushing back on. I've given him credit, just less than you think he deserves. That's fine. In my mind, this is similar to the unemployment rate. Trump has made some good economic changes that have spurred job growth. I credit him for that. It's also the case that unemployment was going to decline to a degree anyway, given the retiring baby boomers leaving the job market. So, he gets credit, just not as much as he thinks he should have.
 
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#113
#113
Vol_Doc said:
Listen, I get where you're coming from. I just don't agree. That's fine. This whole thing kicked off with the ludicrous claim that Trump should get the Nobel Peace Prize. That's what I was pushing back on. I've given him credit, just less than you think he deserves. That's fine. In my mind, this is similar to the unemployment rate. Trump has made some good economic changes that have spurred job growth. I credit him for that. It's also the case that unemployment was going to decline to a degree anyway, given the retiring baby boomers leaving the job market. So, he gets credit, just not as much as he thinks he should have.
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It's been awarded for far less. If Trump helps achieve peace on the Korean Peninsula, he damn well should be in consideration for the award.

But perhaps it's like the Heisman Award at Tennessee. Him NOT getting it is a larger badge of honor than receiving it.
 
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#114
#114
Drop back and punt guys...

Kim Jong Un tests Donald Trump with latest nuke offer: Analysis

..."Instead, Kim appears to be maneuvering toward his own big “get” – the chance to sit down with President Trump on an essentially equal basis as the head of a nuclear-armed nation. The end of North Korea’s nuclear program, meanwhile, isn’t looking any closer than it was before."...
 
#116
#116
#117
#117
Vol_Doc said:
Not a liberal, thanks. And how long do you think it takes to choke a nation? And do you really think that Kim being dumb enough to actually launch over his neighbors didn't bring other countries, like China, on board? Those same 15 months saw the greatest escalation of Kim's activity since he's been in command. He took a gamble, thinking he could steer opinion against the West. He lost.
Click to expand...

When somebody started actually stopping some ships bound for NK, you got the impression that sanctions and embargoes weren't being completely ignored anymore. We only heard of a couple of ships being stopped, but that was a couple more than we heard about as long as I can remember. I'll give rocket man as much credit for that as Trump; I think they both scared some people into at least temporary sanity.

For some countries of the world, NKs can be great to have around - like always having a class clown to create a diversion while the real shady stuff gets done. But NK was getting a little too real, and Trump was the loose cannon that we needed - finally got some people's attention. Don't worry though, China will slip enough through the back door to keep Kim running the show.
 
#119
#119
North Korea Says U.S. Must Stop Defending Israel, Which is 'Destroying' Middle East

By Tom O'Connor On 4/20/18 at 5:37 PM


North Korea has condemned the U.S. and its alliance with Israel, which continued to experience deadly clashes between security forces and Palestinian protestors.

On Friday, the official Korean Central News Agency called the U.S. out for repeatedly defending Israel from criticism at the United Nations Human Rights Council, which U.S. Ambassador to the U.N. Nikki Haley once called "a haven for dictators" and has threatened to pull the U.S. out of. Palestinians have threatened to lodge a complaint with the international body over rising casualties as Israeli forces reportedly opened fire on Palestinian demonstrators near the Gaza border, where dozens have been killed and thousands injured since violent protests erupted over Israel's historic and ongoing seizure of land.

"Israel's wild act of destroying Mid-east peace and mercilessly killing Palestinians is a hideous crime that deserves denunciations thousands of times," the state-run agency said of a commentary by North Korean Cabinet paper Minju Joson.

"If the U.S. is interested in protecting human rights, it should keep pace with the efforts of the international community to denounce and check Israel's human rights abuses," Minju Joson wrote. "But, the U.S. chimed in with Israel in the eyes of the international community, fully disclosing that it is applying double-dealing standards in human rights and politicizing it."


gettyimages-894251962.jpg
The son of Salam Rabaa, the Palestinian owner of Rabaa restaurant, gestures with his right hand imitating a poster of North Korean leader Kim Jong Un, at the gate of the venue premises in the Jabalia refugee camp in the northern Gaza strip on December 17, 2017. The sign at the entrance of the restaurant reads in Arabic: "Special discounts reaching up to 80 percent for Korean patrons, in appraisal of the role of the Korean leader towards our Palestinian cause." MOHAMMED ABED/AFP/Getty Images


The rhetoric comes at a time of relative calm in the usually tense relations between Washington and Pyongyang, which the U.N. has also censured for reports of human rights abuses. After a year of sparring with President Donald Trump, North Korean supreme leader Kim Jong Un reached out to U.S.-backed South Korea in January, in an effort to end the decades-long conflict between them. The U.S. was hesitant in endorsing the talks, but Trump has since accepted a historic invite to meet Kim face-to-face, making him the first sitting president to meet a North Korean leader.


Read more: http://www.newsweek.com/north-korea-...le-east-895968
 
#120
#120
Grand Vol said:
Sad for you, but if peace comes to NK and SK, it will likely be on Trump's watch and he should rightfully get the credit. Just like Reagan got the credit for the fall of Communism in East Europe and the Soviet Union (though it happened on Bush 41's watch) Trump deserves the credit for getting NK back to the table. Let's face facts here, neither Obama nor Bush 43 did much to change the North Korean paradigm while in office.

They really haven't cared about starving their population in order to push the WMD agenda before. Why stop now? What changed other than a President finally saying "I'm your huckleberry" to their petty threats?
Click to expand...

Barry got credit for Bin Laden and had nothing to do with it other than waffle two or three times.
 
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#122
#122
Vol_Doc said:
Not a liberal, thanks. And how long do you think it takes to choke a nation? And do you really think that Kim being dumb enough to actually launch over his neighbors didn't bring other countries, like China, on board? Those same 15 months saw the greatest escalation of Kim's activity since he's been in command. He took a gamble, thinking he could steer opinion against the West. He lost.
Click to expand...

Here is Trump discussing North Korea on Meet The Press in 1999.

It's worth watching.

[twitter]972435181494784001[/twitter]
 
#125
#125
I don’t care who gets credit as long as it happens. I would’ve applauded BHO if he would’ve nutted up. Anytime a brutal, nuclear capable, tyrant is brought into the fold its a good day. Hope it happens.
 
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