Official's Review

#26
#26
I thought in the first place that they should have used the NFL's system. reviewing every play is retarded and is a cop-out for crappy refs.
 
#27
#27
salutethehill said:
The clock does not stop when the player is down, it stops when the whistle is blown. You could say they're supposed to blow the whistle the instance the player is down, but that's impossible and very inconsistent.
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If it is in the rule book that establishing when a player was down and putting the correct time on the clock is not allowed than the call would be wrong. The way I understand the rules for this situation is it was the correct call.
 
#28
#28
byobbio said:
My point is that globally video review should not be part of the game in any shape or form.

Hamilton knows that there is less football going on and UT fans are not going to stand for it.
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agree re screwing up the flow of the game. it is over utilized in its current incarnation. the game is being delayed by reviews that are not necessary (referee right at the play, has an unobstructed view, etc.).

but they need some backup to get more critical calls correct. that is why i like the NFL system.

as far as the game experience, UT believes that the way to compete with pay per view on HD TV in a recliner chair at home with a 12 pack is to beef up ancillary services and concierge type environments. they might be right as i'm sure they have invested in market research. i think the way to compete is to win championships and hot dogs be damned, but they didn't ask me.
 
#29
#29
JonWard said:
The clock does not stop until a ref signals for it to stop. On the play in question, the line judge doesn't signal for this to stop until :00 is showing on clock. The review should have been to see when the judge signaled for time to stop...not when the knee was down.

No time should have been put on the clock. Doesn't matter, Vols blew it in second half.
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exactly. There is no rule to stop play when someone is down. The clock stops when the play is blown dead by an official, not before.
 
#30
#30
You should be complaning about Janzen Jackson playing 15 yards off the line of scrimmage and getting burned deep.
 
#31
#31
I hated the call. I booed with everyone else when they were reviewing it. But it was right. All things considered right is better.

When the catch was made, the official blew his whistle, waved his arms to stop the clock, I looked up and there was still a second showing, then it went to zero. I told everyone around me that it was going to be reviewed and overturned.

I hated it. I wanted the half to be over. But the clock operator blew it and the call (no matter how disgusting) was right.
 
#32
#32
UTHorsey said:
You should be complaning about Janzen Jackson playing 15 yards off the line of scrimmage and getting burned deep.
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Except that's not what this thread is about. This thread is about the video replay, and the official's decision to put a couple of seconds back on the clock.
This thread is NOT about:
- The ensuing butt-whipping we received after the half
- Jackson's blown coverage on that play
- This one play being the difference-maker in the game.
I'm sure there are plenty of other threads relating to those topics.
 
#33
#33
the refs always interfer with the game in the last couple of minutes. how many times has a play finished and the refs would stop the clock to allow the offense to get set up then restart it. they always feel the need to treat the last couple of minutes different than the rest of the game.
 
#34
#34
UTHorsey said:
You should be complaning about Janzen Jackson playing 15 yards off the line of scrimmage and getting burned deep.
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I agree whole-hartedly. However, this thread is not about Janzen Jackson or the play itself. This thread is about the mistrust I have in the system and how it disrupts the game. Technically, all human element aside, yes it is the right call. Did the ref blow the whistle in time, I don't know. I was so pissed that we let that guy open that I spilled my beer on my shirt and that needed attention.

The point to this whole discussion is whether or not the replay review is worth having. I think it is worthless in any shape or form. I have turned off NFL games that have reviewed plays and when it entered the college game I was very disappointed. I can guarantee you that if you attend a high school game you will wonder why the cadence of the game is so much more enjoyable. Well, a big part of it is they aren't reviewing any of the plays. The second part is that they don't have a million tv timeouts, but that one would be harder to change. And my opinions on how they've screwed the fan in attendance may be another thread to come to Volnation very soon.
BYOBBIO
 
#35
#35
I agree with the fact that we should not have given up the play at the end of the half.

However, the fact that we had the momentum going into halftime before that play and the field goal killed the momentum could be more important than the 3 points themself.

BUT, back to the OP, time should not be put back on the clock in that situation unless the clock is going to be reviewed under every situation in which the clock stops (first downs, out of bounds, etc.) I guarantee there are multiple times in a game in which the clock does not stop as soon as a player steps out of bounds. In this case an additional 2-3 seconds run off the clock. When these plays are reviewed, I will be okay when the plays at the end of the half or the game are reviewed(concerning time on the clock)
 
#38
#38
byobbio said:
OK, i have waited several days to post this so that I could get my thoughts straight and make sure that my emotions are not over the top like the hours following the game.

I have always disagreed with allowing the cameras dictate the outcome of the games and allow the overturning of rulings on the field. Now, I am completely beside myself after this past call allowing two seconds be put back on the clock.

I would like others's thoughts on this issue.

Now mine. I think the officials on the field have the best view, they can hear contact, they know the flow of the game, they understand what their job is and they dang near always get the call right. In some cases, the calls are incorrect as indicated by film. But, the fact that there are some calls that tend to go against one team, will usually work itself out later in the game as either a makeup call or just human error.

I think by introducing the video review, it has taken away a good portion of the integrity of the game. It has ruined it and has lessened the quality of the game as well.

Now, a big case in point involves the call at the end of the first half of the TN/VT game. After every first down, there are several seconds that run off the clock before the official is able to blow the whistle and signal for the clock to stop. None of those plays were reviewed. However, when a "big play" or a time when it could greatly affect the outcome of the game, the video review allowed 2 seconds to be put back on the clock as we all know. This, in my opinion, is wrong and crooked. It is criminal. The rest of the game was played without reviewing the 2 seconds as well.

How many times does this have to happen until somebody or some coach sues the NCAA for criminal activity. This is wrong. Granted, i am a big TN fan. But, you just cannot look at the clock and make a call different than every other similar play in the game because it is not precisely correct.

I think the piss-poor officiating is the result of the video review. I think it has diminished somewhat the enjoyability of the games. I think it has made the networks to enforce the out-of-bounds clock to keep running, thus giving us fans less football to watch in the same time period.

Again, I think video review is criminal.

I would like to hear others' opinions as I am beside myself as to why we as fans continue to let this crap take place.

Thoughts?
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I didn't realize there was a law against it. :)

Seriously, I'd hate to hear how you were feeling before you got your emotions under control.
 
#39
#39
utvolpj said:
there were 2 sec left when they reset the ball. After the play they had just executed I am positive they could get a TO called in time.

I'm more angry we didn't have anyone back there to play D. Thought it was fairly obvious what they were going to do
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EXACTLY! If we don't get beat deep, then it isn't even an issue.
 
#40
#40
byobbio said:
And just how bad was the game then? Take a look at attendance. That should tell you something. More and more people are opting to watch at home and I guarantee you that this is part of the problem. So, I remember when the game was a hell of a lot better than it is now.
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I'd say that more and more people are choosing to stay at home because of higher ticket prices, concessions, parking, ect.
 
#41
#41
BigPapaVol said:
exactly. There is no rule to stop play when someone is down. The clock stops when the play is blown dead by an official, not before.
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makes sense, but would this not also apply to the texas-neb game? seems like there was even less time for the official to blow the play dead on that one.
 
#42
#42
I think it was the correct call to put the time back on the clock. My issue with putting the time back in that instance is that the other 20-40 combined times first downs are gained during play, 2-3 seconds consistently are lost from the time the player is "down" the whistle is blown, and the clock stops. Why no review for those? Would it be impossible to have a system similar to basketball where the clock stops with the whistle blow? The problem I see there would be that there are numerous whistle blows during football that don't coincide with time stoppage. How about making time issues non-reviewable?
 
#43
#43
salutethehill said:
So you can call a time out before the whistle blows? Was the whistle blown before the clock hit "0"?
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The whistle was never blown, either to signal the end of the play or to signal the end of the half. At least, i've replayed that play about half a dozen times on my DVR and with the volume full blast I still can't hear a whistle That in itself was bizzare IMO, in that the play was never ruled dead. The ref just goes straight to the headset.
 
#44
#44
UNAVol89 said:
I thought in the first place that they should have used the NFL's system. reviewing every play is retarded and is a cop-out for crappy refs.
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I do agree with this in principle. The only problem there is that it's sort of an unlevel playing field. Pretty much all the bigger schools have huge jumbotrons that replay every play, whereas some of the smaller schools don't. A lot of the time the decision to throw the red flag in the NFL is made after a coach watches the replay on the big screen. That gives the larger schools an advantage that smaller schools don't have.

However, smaller schools are already at a disadvantage because larger schools typically have all their games televised, which means more camera angles to review. So I guess as long as they're okay with that, they should be okay with a challenge-based review.

The question then becomes, if you go to a challenged based review system, do you keep the official in the booth whose sole job is to watch the replays, or do you put the head referee "under to hood" like in the NFL?
 
#45
#45
Illinois Hokie said:
I do agree with this in principle. The only problem there is that it's sort of an unlevel playing field. Pretty much all the bigger schools have huge jumbotrons that replay every play, whereas some of the smaller schools don't. A lot of the time the decision to throw the red flag in the NFL is made after a coach watches the replay on the big screen. That gives the larger schools an advantage that smaller schools don't have.

However, smaller schools are already at a disadvantage because larger schools typically have all their games televised, which means more camera angles to review. So I guess as long as they're okay with that, they should be okay with a challenge-based review.

The question then becomes, if you go to a challenged based review system, do you keep the official in the booth whose sole job is to watch the replays, or do you put the head referee "under to hood" like in the NFL?
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In my opinion, the referee on the field should review the replay and make the final decision, regardless of which system you use.
 
#46
#46
Here is why I don't agree with being able to review clock. Every single play has a margin of error. The clock never stops exactly when the knee touches the ground/runner goes out of bounds/ ball lands incomplete, etc. The clock at any given moment is a culmination of slight errors. Why then only as the clock is running out do we look at video evidence to determine the precision of the clock for that play, when in reality the clock was technically wrong at the beginning of the play.

This exact scenario came up in the FSU Miami game at the beginning of the year. However, in that instance, the clock was not reviewed. I hate both those teams and could care less who won or lose, but I thought it was the right thing not to review the clock.
 
#47
#47
byobbio said:
OK,
Now, a big case in point involves the call at the end of the first half of the TN/VT game. After every first down, there are several seconds that run off the clock before the official is able to blow the whistle and signal for the clock to stop. None of those plays were reviewed. However, when a "big play" or a time when it could greatly affect the outcome of the game, the video review allowed 2 seconds to be put back on the clock as we all know. This, in my opinion, is wrong and crooked. It is criminal. The rest of the game was played without reviewing the 2 seconds as well.
Thoughts?
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I'm a hokie and I agree with you, despite the fact that it played in my team's favor. Just a couple of weeks ago, Texas (the inferior UT) had one second put back on the board that allowed them to beat Nebraska. If they did that BS review for every play, I'd have no problem with it (and we'd all still be in the dome watching the game), but it ("The Review") does seem to emerge with every "big" play. Consistency is the the key. I'm all for letting the officials call the game and then complain about how they missed the call.
 
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