Official Global Warming thread (merged)

[gsvol]

Video: Why AGW hysteria is a bad bet Hot Air

If anything, Spencer might be a little too kind to those
who advocate an end to carbon-based energy. There
exists a significant number of people hostile to the idea
of technological progress at all, who want humans to
return to the “dirty, smelly, and difficult” lifestyle in
order to make mankind more “natural.”

Carbon energy allowed for large-scale advances in
longevity, industry, and health, but for those who
embrace the Malthusian vision of mankind as some sort
of marauding virus in nature, those aren’t advances at
all. They’re indications of blight — and they would
rather see human numbers cut dramatically.

Most people, though, are concerned about the
environment in balance with their ability to live and
produce. Those people get seduced by the notion that
so-called green energy is ready to replace carbon-based
energy either right now or in the immediate future, a
promise that has been made for decades and has failed
to deliver despite billions and billions in subsidies each
year for that purpose. They believe that a choice
doesn’t exist between progress and destruction when it
comes to limiting energy use, but Spencer makes the
reality of this decision very clear in this video.

 

[gsvol]

 

[KiffinKiller]

Yes - the green agenda's goal is to have us wading in ****e again.

 

[utgibbs]

I just saw this.

Well, I was 4 years old and living in England in 1988. My knowledge of the scientific literature in that snapshot of time and of the GCC landscape in general is pretty limited and likely deeply flawed due to hindsight and future knowledge.

Any kind of statement of "99 % certainty" is pretty ballsy and perhaps deliberately policy-influencing, but the projections he was presenting at that time have turned out pretty accurate, especially Scenario B. And that's even with the Mount Pinatubo eruption that cooled things off considerably in the early 90's.

This is what he was 99 % sure of being the possibilities, and as you can see it turns out he was pretty much right.


I'm sure gsvol will take exception with this, but it's right there for anyone to see.

Nice graph on the Model E projections. Hansen studied aerosols with the main guy (can't think of his name) in Holland. Model E correctly predicted the effect of Pinatubo (biggest eruption of 20th century).

I think Hansen took some heat for the 99% certain statement from colleagues, but I believe it was completely appropriate given the venue and the circumstances.

 

[utgibbs]

I gotta admit, these folks out there campaigning for all industrial nations to die give me the skeevies. Can there really be that many of these folks?
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I think it is a reaction to the diminishing returns of technology / those of us who grew up with a real fear of nuclear war.

Technology is a reflection of the culture. That's why we are good at making napalm, but lousy at curing malaria. Adjust the culture, and I think the technology takes care of itself.

Very simplified view of complex problems.

 

[gsvol]

I think it is a reaction to the diminishing returns of technology / those of us who grew up with a real fear of nuclear war.

Technology is a reflection of the culture. That's why we are good at making napalm, but lousy at curing malaria. Adjust the culture, and I think the technology takes care of itself.

Very simplified view of complex problems.

We were doing a great job of eradicating malaria
until the ecofools banned DDT based on the same
sort of false claims now being made by the same
set of morons concerning global warming aka climate
change.

There was never any DDT found in penguin eggs but
that didn't stop people from believing it for quite some
time, some probably still do.

Now that DDT has been reintorduced, malaria and
other serious mosquito carried deseases are on the
decline.

The latest:

Vocal Minority: What? There's Global Cooling Now?

You just can't make this stuff up.

First, the (sort of) good news: A new climate study
seems to show that "anthropogenic global warming"
(or whatever the %&*# you want to call it) had in
fact peaked in 1998. Yes, I know, that's a huge
admission, right? What happened to all that cooked-
book drivel about the hottest years on record being
in the 2000's?

But now for the bad news: The reason AGW has
stopped is ... pollution. That's right. Sulphur pollution
from Asia's burgeoning economies is having a cooling
effect on the planet, canceling out the warming effect
allegedly caused by Western pollution.

Get it? The earth is warming? Pollution! The earth is
cooling? Pollution!

It's a Marxist misanthrope's dream come true.

Now to address the 'tipping point' theory:

Look at recent volcanic activity in Chile that has
disrupted air travel in Australia and the Icelandic
volcano with the unpronounceable name that did
so last summer in Europe.

Historically we know large volcanoes cause global
climate disruption. The Krakatoa blast in the 19th
century produced what was dubbed "the year
without a summer" and more recently the Pinatubo
volcano in the Philippines also caused significant
global cooling.

What is interesting is that even when a volcanic event
is large enough to cause this global climate change, the global climate doesn't reach any tipping point.

Krakatoa for example while it significantly lowered global
temperatures for more than a year, did not precipitate
a mini ice age.

This is why it is less than credible to believe the Al Gore
dogma that insinuates that minute changes (almost on
a molecular level) in CO2 levels spell climatic disaster.

If the Al Gore dogma were true a single volcanic
eruption would produce these climate changes and
have long since pushed the globe into either Hades
like temperatures or another ice age.

Al Gore, Rachel Carson and Hansen are like peas in a
pod or perhaps like nuts in a fruit salad.

 

[IPorange]

DDT is not a myth. There may be a counter-debate as to the cost in human life due to Malaria (although many mosquito populations have developed immunity to DDT anyway), but DDT does bioaccumulate in birds and does weaken the eggs. Spray your chickenfeed with DDT and see how many chicks you can hatch.

 

[BigPapaVol]

Did some clown in here say something about real fear of nuclear war?
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[utgibbs]

Did some clown in here say something about real fear of nuclear war?
Posted via VolNation Mobile

@gsvol - the counter-debate on DDT is bourgeois-fueled nonsense, IMHO. It's a lot more profitable to have people constantly roll their house walls with DDT than to provide universal health care and provide quinine to those at risk. Or bomb stagnant pools with DDT every six months. Cities formerly built above the mosquito line are now, thanks to global heating, seeing mosquitos again, btw.

@BPV - I know you didn't miss the "October Crisis." It's only been recently we've discovered how close Ronnie Raygun came to getting us nuked with the Able Archer ridiculousness. More than a generation grew up with McNamara MADness (oh, good pun with alliteration too). Now we have the debacle at Fukushima - which makes the Russian response to Chernobyl look transparent (it wasn't, btw). Add to this we are re-engineering the entire planet, busy making an alien world, busy causing the sixth great extinction event in Earth's four billion year history, and is it any wonder people believe bourgeois technology leads to an inexorable march to destruction?

The key word? - bourgeois.

And all of this is the real world outside your back door.

 

[KiffinKiller]

I didn't notice anything about the world outside the backdoor in your post. Care to add it so it can be complete?

 

[BigPapaVol]

@BPV - I know you didn't miss the "October Crisis." It's only been recently we've discovered how close Ronnie Raygun came to getting us nuked with the Able Archer ridiculousness. More than a generation grew up with McNamara MADness (oh, good pun with alliteration too). Now we have the debacle at Fukushima - which makes the Russian response to Chernobyl look transparent (it wasn't, btw). Add to this we are re-engineering the entire planet, busy making an alien world, busy causing the sixth great extinction event in Earth's four billion year history, and is it any wonder people believe bourgeois technology leads to an inexorable march to destruction?

The key word? - bourgeois.

astounding that your username has become a punchline on this site. I'd like to think it's because the site is littered with idiots, but you're a punchline to the limited few who can actually reason.

 

[KiffinKiller]

Gsm

 

[utgibbs]

I didn't notice anything about the world outside the backdoor in your post. Care to add it so it can be complete?

I'm slipping.

I've made the necessary edit.

 

[utgibbs]

astounding that your username has become a punchline on this site. I'd like to think it's because the site is littered with idiots, but you're a punchline to the limited few who can actually reason.

I thought my username was the warning siren that you were about to be taken behind the woodshed.

 

[KiffinKiller]

I thought my username was the warning siren that you were about to be taken behind the woodshed.

and crowned king of world outside the backdoor?

 

[BeecherVol]

and crowned king of world outside his backdoor?

Better.

 

[gsvol]

DDT is not a myth. There may be a counter-debate as to the cost in human life due to Malaria (although many mosquito populations have developed immunity to DDT anyway), but DDT does bioaccumulate in birds and does weaken the eggs. Spray your chickenfeed with DDT and see how many chicks you can hatch.

It was a myth that DDT threatened mass extinctions
and furthermore the head of the EPA knew that at the
time of the worldwide DDT ban.

Not only malaria but Deng fever and West Nile fever
have been devastating, not only in regards to numbers
of deaths but untold suffering and that mostly to
children.

DDT as used in the amounts necessary to suppress
mosquito populations doesn't harm egg quality at all.

Anything used in excess can be harmful.

I remember about twenty years ago some Florida city
was using carboryl to control mosquito numbers and the
chicken little tree huggers got all up in arms and so the
city said they were going to use something else.

The 'something else' was a heck of a lot stronger than
carboryl (and I know the name of the other chemical and
have used both myself) but that appeased the chicken
littles who are always looking for something to be afraid
of.

It's a lot like the stupid global warming scare.

The Looking Spoon: A Conservative Humor, Satire and Commentary Blog

Liberals have spent so much time worry about global
warming deniers on the right that they forgot to keep
an eye on the most powerful deniers of all,
thermometers.

The National Academy of Sciences recently published
a paper explaining why Al Gore's hypocrisy is a dish
best served hot. Apparently, global warming needs
all the help it can get, because in the last decade
there really hasn't been any change in the climate.
(LINK PROVIDED.)

A very interesting, authoritative and informative aticle
on the topic with lots of charts:

What's to Blame for Wild Weather? "La Nada" - NASA Science

Some recent news reports have attributed the phenomenon
to an extreme "La Niña," a band of cold water stretching
across the Pacific Ocean with global repercussions for
climate and weather. But NASA climatologist Bill Patzert
names a different suspect: "La Nada."

"La Niña was strong in December," he says. "But back in
January it pulled a disappearing act and left us with nothing
– La Nada – to constrain the jet stream. Like an unruly
teenager, the jet stream took advantage of the newfound
freedom--and the results were disastrous."

La Niña and El Niño are opposite extremes of a great Pacific
oscillation. Every 2 to 7 years, surface waters across the
equatorial Pacific warm up (El Niño) and then they cool
down again (La Niña). Each condition has its own distinct
effects on weather.
---------------------------

In agreement with Patzert, he notes that the very strong
and active jet stream across the lower US in April "may
have been related to the weakening La Niña conditions
observed over the tropical Pacific."

And of course there's this million dollar question: "Does
any research point to climate change as a cause of this
wild weather?"

Obviously not!

 

[KiffinKiller]

Did gs just accuse someone else of being a chicken little? I suppose he has to be right - he is the authority on fear.

 

[IPorange]

The problem with DDT wasn't the amount used, it was bioaccumulation. Do you know what that is? It means that even using small amounts of the substance can still allow it to accumulate in organisms higher up the food chain, thus effectively becoming the sort of dose that is an issue.

 

[IPorange]

Also, refer back to the several posts I have made over the last few months that show why your global warming criticism is BS.

 

[gsvol]

KiffinKiller
Did gs just accuse someone else of being a chicken little? I suppose he has to be right - he is the authority on fear.

All radical environmentalism is about the fear of
one thing or another.

Weekend Libertarian: Green Nazis: Wernher Witthaus (Exhibit One)

“In 1934, a year after the Nazi seizure of power,
the Rhenish regional planner and Heimatschutz member
Wernher Witthaus declared that the Third Reich had
ushered in a new era of environmental stewardship,”
explains Thomas Lekan in How Green Were the Nazis?

It didn’t take him long. Witthaus the National Socialist
preached, “Die ganze Landschaft soll es sein!” Or:
“It shall be the whole landscape!”

The debate was over. Green was in – and therefore
green central leaders. For dear leader Hitler, the
vegetarian, was taking Germany into a greener,
cleaner period.

You are a perfect example of what Adolph Hitler was
talking about when he said:

"We do not need intellectual leaders who create new
ideas, because the superimposing leader of all desires
of youth is Adolf Hitler."

"When an opponent declares, 'I will not come over
to your side,' I say calmly, 'Your child belongs to us
already. What are you? You will pass on.
Your descendants, however, now stand in the new
camp. In a short time they will know nothing but
this new community' ."

Britain and America won the battles of WWII.
The National Socialists are winning the War,
thanks to the Labour and Democratic Parties
in Britian and America.

Kudos to our educational system also.

IPorange
The problem with DDT wasn't the amount used, it was bioaccumulation. Do you know what that is? It means that even using small amounts of the substance can still allow it to accumulate in organisms higher up the food chain, thus effectively becoming the sort of dose that is an issue.

And not enough bioaccumlated to make any realistic
difference.

If your fears were true then why has the ban on DDT
been lifted?

The whole thing was based on false propaganda.

Also, refer back to the several posts I have made over the last few months that show why your global warming criticism is BS.

AGW hasn't been criticized, it has been thouroughly
refuted to any rational, objective mind.

 

[IPorange]

Environmentalists are all Nazis. I love the variety of logical fallacies you invoke. Truly impressive.

 

[gsvol]

Environmentalists are all Nazis. I love the variety of logical fallacies you invoke. Truly impressive.

Probably 90% of the conclusions you draw from reading
my post are fig newtons of your imagination.

Of course all enviro-nazis aren't fascists.

In fact most are just bleeding hearts with a bit of
paranoia that fall for propaganda, get stuck on stupid
and end up being useful idiots for the enviro-nazis.

Color me unimpressed.

 

[KiffinKiller]

Probably 90% of the conclusions you draw from reading
my post are fig newtons of your imagination.

Of course all enviro-nazis aren't fascists.

In fact most are just bleeding hearts with a bit of
paranoia that fall for propaganda, get stuck on stupid
and end up being useless idiots for the enviro-nazis.

Color me unimpressed.

reminds of someone

 

[gsvol]

reminds of someone

Reminds me of some others also!

Weekend Libertarian: Green Nazis: Alwin Seifert (Exhibit Four)

Another link which PJ AS says no one will problaby read
but I can only try to alieve ignorance, I can't ban it.

The Who’s Who of Munich Cultural Life (1937)
proclaimed “all of Germany has become his garden”
for Alwin Seifert, the organic-first gardener was
fashionably green and fascist. In How Green Were
the Nazis? Thomas Zeller adds, “Seifert, however,
was constantly trying to extend his influence. The
chaotic style of governance in Nazi Germany matched
his strategy of molding alliances, especially since he
enjoyed the tacit protection of his two most powerful
patrons, Hess and Todt.”

As I’ve noted, there’s a wide difference between
peaceful made-for-television environmentalists and
reality, or power-hungry greens. “With Hess, he shared
an interest in Steiner’s methods of ‘bio-dynamic’
agriculture. Seifert designed a garden for Hess’s private
home and bragged to a colleague that he would do
likewise for Hitler ‘after the war.’ In 1939, Hitler
awarded Seifert the title of professor, and Todt issued
a document one year later declaring Seifert as his
Reich landscape advocate as a birthday present.”

Nor was it a coincidence that the concentration camp
Dachau, was home to an organic herb garden/farm. Like
Hess, nature-loving Seifert also appeared interested in
generating gas from the feces of inmates in Auschwitz.
Moreover, he railed against impure dams.