Official Ben Howland Thread

[volholio]

The Real Reasons Why UCLA Coach Ben Howland Got Fired | Charles Hartley's Blog | FanNation.com

"Howland wouldn't show up for practice until just before things got started and left early while players took foul shooting practice. Seems strange. He was gone. Obviously he didn't want to spend any extra time with them. Maybe he just didn't like being around them and, if that was the case, maybe he shouldn't be coaching college basketball players."

"What's more, the player belittled members of the team staff. He was a talented player, one of the key starters, and Howland allowed this to continue, according to the article. Virtually all college basketball coaches would stop their players from injuring others on a consistent basis. It's common sense and also beneficial to the team to have more players healthy. What was Howland thinking by allowing this to occur repeatedly? This alone is reason to seriously question whether he should be coaching any college basketball program no matter what his credentials."

ETC.

 

[drewtigeralum]

Your act is old. You skew anything your direction and misrepresent others stances well too often. I know I'm not the only one ready for you to move on.
So yes, I'm terrible at following your random bull**** and want no more part of it. Fact is our roster next year is lean, and Martin wasting 7+ scholarships in 3 years is a big reason, and there is no deflection or tangent you can create in your tunnelvisioned mind that takes away from that fact.
You weren't here the first 2 years begging him to make basic and obvious coaching moves that he now admits he should've made.

You're not terrible at following my bull**** you're terrible at following your own, which is why you keep contradicting yourself.

When I point it out you get mad. Like I said, feel free to ignore me. I believe there is a button for that.

 

[Spartacavolus]

You're not terrible at following my bull**** you're terrible at following your own, which is why you keep contradicting yourself.

When I point it out you get mad. Like I said, feel free to ignore me. I believe there is a button for that.

I'm not mad and don't ignore people, especially visitors. I didn't contradict anything. I said Martin wasted at least 7 scholarships in 3 years and it's a big reason why our roster is so thin. No big man. No 4. No proven pg. No shooters. You CANT debate any of it, so you deflect and skew it towards whatever view you want. That's fine. I don't care. That's what people do when faced with facts and reality, they deflect and try to take it down another path that suits them better. Yours somehow turned into giving a coach 2 yrs or some other bull****.
I can't contradict a stance I never took. You spend way too much time arguing with stances you pull out of thin air. Good luck with that. I guess you can at least entertain yourself.

 

[drewtigeralum]

I'm not mad and don't ignore people, especially visitors. I didn't contradict anything. I said Martin wasted at least 7 scholarships in 3 years and it's a big reason why our roster is so thin. No big man. No 4. No proven pg. No shooters. You CANT debate any of it, so you deflect and skew it towards whatever view you want. That's fine. I don't care. That's what people do when faced with facts and reality, they deflect and try to take it down another path that suits them better. Yours somehow turned into giving a coach 2 yrs or some other bull****.
I can't contradict a stance I never took. You spend way too much time arguing with stances you pull out of thin air. Good luck with that. I guess you can at least entertain yourself.

So again, how is that any different than what Martin inherited from Pearl? The point of this entire exercise was to say that Martin inherited nothing in terms of actual production and turned it into a sweet 16 team in 3 seasons. That also is an indisputable fact. When you lose 4 starters, very few teams are going to be replacing them with proven battle tested vets. The new coach will have the luxury of actually having a recruiting class in place, instead of having to cobble one together at the last second. I would say that the new coach is being left with more to work with than Martin.

 

[Spartacavolus]

So again, how is that any different than what Martin inherited from Pearl? The point of this entire exercise was to say that Martin inherited nothing in terms of actual production and turned it into a sweet 16 team in 3 seasons. That also is an indisputable fact. When you lose 4 starters, very few teams are going to be replacing them with proven battle tested vets. The new coach will have the luxury of actually having a recruiting class in place, instead of having to cobble one together at the last second. I would say that the new coach is being left with more to work with than Martin.

Maybe he is. But in yr 4 after a sweet 16 run, there is no excuse for it to be comparable, and his bad calls on recruiting are a big reason. Whatever exercise you want to perform is one of your own. We were talking about recruiting misses and a depleted roster next year. You went a different route.

 

[drewtigeralum]

Maybe he is. But in yr 4 after a sweet 16 run, there is no excuse for it to be comparable, and his bad calls on recruiting are a big reason. Whatever exercise you want to perform is one of your own. We were talking about recruiting misses and a depleted roster next year. You went a different route.

Actually, no, I asked if the coach was going to get more than 2 years before being put on the hot seat. That is what started this conversation. You said no, because he was being left with a depleted roster. I said you were being hypocritical because Martin was also left with a depleted roster. I compared the roster, the facts proved my point, and then you changed the subject.

As I said, the point is, any coach is going to need more than 2 years before the seat gets hot, and if he gets to the sweet 16 in 3 years after having a depleted roster, then he probably did a good job. I will say that the new coach actually having a recruiting class in place will have an advantage over Martin having to put one together after the season was over.

 

[VolArmy74]

I think most people disagree that Martin was left the kind of roster Zo is leaving behind.

Pearl left behind highly rated recruits and 3 of them turned out to be all-conference type players.

If you come into your new job and you inherit 3 players of that caliber, you're very lucky.

It happened that those 3 players were a good PG, a good SG, and a good big man.

Martin leaves behind a good SG. We'll see if Thompson is a good PG. Pops and Davis can't compare with Maymon and Kenny Hall so the post is barren.

Plus Pearl left behind two great recruits but Martin couldn't reel them in, we'll see if whomever we hire can keep what Martin has in place.

 

[Spartacavolus]

Actually, no, I asked if the coach was going to get more than 2 years before being put on the hot seat. That is what started this conversation. You said no, because he was being left with a depleted roster. I said you were being hypocritical because Martin was also left with a depleted roster. I compared the roster, the facts proved my point, and then you changed the subject.

that didn't happen in the first place. again, creating a stance just to argue.

And if the next coach makes more moves that lose games than to win them, there is no timetable for a hotseat.

Martin left a thin roster and missing on more recruits than hitting during his tenure is the reason. Period. Nothing else to be said.

 

[drewtigeralum]

I think most people disagree that Martin was left the kind of roster Zo is leaving behind.

Pearl left behind highly rated recruits and 3 of them turned out to be all-conference type players.

If you come into your new job and you inherit 3 players of that caliber, you're very lucky.

It happened that those 3 players were a good PG, a good SG, and a good big man.

Martin leaves behind a good SG. We'll see if Thompson is a good PG. Pops and Davis can't compare with Maymon and Kenny Hall so the post is barren.

Plus Pearl left behind two great recruits but Martin couldn't reel them in, we'll see if whomever we hire can keep what Martin has in place.

You're forgetting about Hubbs, who was ranked higher than any player Bruce left behind.

Tatum
Maymon
MacRae

Those were the 3 best players Bruce left. Other than Tatum, neither Maymon or MacRae had played any substantial minutes on a 19 win team.

Martin leaves
Richardson
Hubbs
Thompson

I will agree that the post appears to be barren. Davis is going to need to step up at the 4, or one of the freshman are going to have to play early. I have no idea about the 5.

 

[BigOrangeTailgate]

Actually, no, I asked if the coach was going to get more than 2 years before being put on the hot seat. That is what started this conversation. You said no, because he was being left with a depleted roster. I said you were being hypocritical because Martin was also left with a depleted roster. I compared the roster, the facts proved my point, and then you changed the subject.

As I said, the point is, any coach is going to need more than 2 years before the seat gets hot, and if he gets to the sweet 16 in 3 years after having a depleted roster, then he probably did a good job. I will say that the new coach actually having a recruiting class in place will have an advantage over Martin having to put one together after the season was over.

CCM wasn't on the hot seat in year one or two. Fans were upset with the coaching at times yes but he was never on the hot seat. His seat did get hot in year three but he managed to earn a 4th year with the way last season ended. A 4th season that doesn't look very promising but that would have been on him since he had plenty of time to recruit for next years team. I'm not sure why you keep bringing CBP into this. Obviously this is speculation but based on his track record I believe, had he stayed, that he would have already rebuilt the roster which is something that CCM failed to do.

 

[drewtigeralum]

CCM wasn't on the hot seat in year one or two. Fans were upset with the coaching at times yes but he was never on the hot seat. His seat did get hot in year three but he managed to earn a 4th year with the way last season ended. A 4th season that doesn't look very promising but that would have been on him since he had plenty of time to recruit for next years team. I'm not sure why you keep bringing CBP into this. Obviously this is speculation but based on his track record I believe, had he stayed, that he would have already rebuilt the roster which is something that CCM failed to do.

I only bring CPB in to the discussion to show that what Martin was left with, at least in terms of proven talent, is going to be very similar to the talent the new coach in going to inherit, at least in terms of proven talent. It looks like all or most of Martin's recruits will stick with U.T., so the new coach will have a huge leg up. Martin had 7 scholarships to fill when he came to U.T.

Anyway the point is, give the new guy time, forget Pearl, forget Martin, but give the new guy at least 4 years before he gets thrown under the bus.

 

[volfan411]

You're forgetting about Hubbs, who was ranked higher than any player Bruce left behind.

Tatum
Maymon
MacRae

Those were the 3 best players Bruce left. Other than Tatum, neither Maymon or MacRae had played any substantial minutes on a 19 win team.

Martin leaves
Richardson
Hubbs
Thompson

I will agree that the post appears to be barren. Davis is going to need to step up at the 4, or one of the freshman are going to have to play early. I have no idea about the 5.

Pearl also left with Chris Jones committed and another player whose name has slipped my mind and a lot of people thought Stokes was a silent commit to Pearl as well.

The bottom line is CM and BP are gone and the only option is to either get behind whoever is hired or find a new team to cheer for.

 

[drewtigeralum]

The bottom line is CM and BP are gone and the only option is to either get behind whoever is hired or find a new team to cheer for.

I agree, I mention this in my above post.

 

[catchnburn]

You're forgetting about Hubbs, who was ranked higher than any player Bruce left behind.

Tatum
Maymon
MacRae

Those were the 3 best players Bruce left. Other than Tatum, neither Maymon or MacRae had played any substantial minutes on a 19 win team.

Martin leaves
Richardson
Hubbs
Thompson

I will agree that the post appears to be barren. Davis is going to need to step up at the 4, or one of the freshman are going to have to play early. I have no idea about the 5.

Golden 4*/top 100
McRae 4*/top 50
Maymon 4*/top 75
Hall 4*/top 75
Tatum 4*/top 100

Bruce had a Chris Jones? committed as well and was all over stokes. Can't compare the situations lol. Hopson and Harris left but technically on roster.