Official 2013 Offseason thread.

#527
#527
n_huffhines said:
Total value. He's a great defender, a good rebounder, and he's become a good scorer. I know people want him to score in the post, but that's a weak knock. He doesn't have any weaknesses that hurt his team, like Westbrook's propensity to turn the ball over and take terrible shots.
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How far did Ibaka help take them when Westbrook went out?

It became apparent in the past playoffs that Westbrook is the true catalyst for the team.

I'm not saying he's better than Durant because he isn't. But despite the negatives you mentioned the dude can ball.
 
#528
#528
GahLee said:
Don't kid yourself.

They flushed away the past season. They could have kept him and made a run at Miami.
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Didn't we all just say that?

By the way, that was not just a Presti decision. That was also an ownership decision to trade Harden. I guaran-damn-tee that if it was up to Presti, they would have kept Harden. But he was going to lose Harden at the end of the year and was in no man's land. Now, can we blame him for the return he got? Yes. It was awful. Unless Jeremy Lamb becomes Rip Hamilton 2.0, it's going to go down as one of the ten worst trades in the last 25 years. But ownership really tied his hands behind his back too.

Now, why Perkins hasn't been amnestied yet boggles my mind. But he's like 18/20 on moves. He has Durant/Westbrook signed for three years minimum. It's not like they only had one year to do this.
 
#529
#529
n_huffhines said:
Total value. He's a great defender, a good rebounder, and he's become a good scorer. I know people want him to score in the post, but that's a weak knock. He doesn't have any weaknesses that hurt his team, like Westbrook's propensity to turn the ball over and take terrible shots.
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I love Serge and what he brings, and while It seems like a weak knock, on a team of jump shooters they desperately need a big that can post and score. His developing jump shot has came at a price, his rebs per 36 has went down every year. 10.8 to 10.1 to 10 to a career low 8.9 last year, that's almost 2 rebs per 36 lost from his first year. So while his jumpshot has been developing his rebs have went down.

Now for Russ. Nobody in the world has been harder on this kid than me, he used to frustrate me to no end. But honestly a lot of his bad shots and tos are because of a bad halfcourt offense. Their o is Perk takes up space, Serge drifts to about 15 feet, Thabo stands in the corner. Russ stands at the top of the key waiting on KD a lot, and that becomes the problem. KD will come to the ball aggressively sometimes, other times he will just kind of stand off to the side. And the most frustrating of all he will stand right by his defender let him lean on him and casually stick his hand up, with no effort to get free. So when this happens it turns in to Russ or bust usually with the shot clock running low, hence a lot of his bad shots and tos. Now he does still have his knucklehead moments where he just runs down and jacks up a shot or drives inside with no sense of what he's doing. But he is learning the position and he is improving. His tos per 36 the last 3 year have went down, 4 to 3.7 to 3.4. Not great but he's getting there. Its easy to just say he takes bad shots and turns the ball over and that be it, but really watch their offense particularly KD, a lot of times Russ simply has no choice.

FTR I love KD, and I used to loathe Russ. So its very strange that I'm making this argument now, but my eyes have been opened a little in the past year or so. The funny is if Russ was on an average franchise doing what he does and leading them to the playoffs people would be praising the kid.
 
#530
#530
GahLee said:
How far did Ibaka help take them when Westbrook went out?

It became apparent in the past playoffs that Westbrook is the true catalyst for the team.

I'm not saying he's better than Durant because he isn't. But despite the negatives you mentioned the dude can ball.
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You have to remember Huff thinks Kyle Korver is better than Russ. Lol
 
#531
#531
zjcvols said:
Didn't we all just say that?

By the way, that was not just a Presti decision. That was also an ownership decision to trade Harden. I guaran-damn-tee that if it was up to Presti, they would have kept Harden. But he was going to lose Harden at the end of the year and was in no man's land. Now, can we blame him for the return he got? Yes. It was awful. Unless Jeremy Lamb becomes Rip Hamilton 2.0, it's going to go down as one of the ten worst trades in the last 25 years. But ownership really tied his hands behind his back too.

Now, why Perkins hasn't been amnestied yet boggles my mind. But he's like 18/20 on moves. He has Durant/Westbrook signed for three years minimum. It's not like they only had one year to do this.
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The most aggravating thing about that situation is, from what I understood they made JH an offer he wanted to think about it and they pretty much said do it now or it's off the table.

As for Jim McIlvaine ummm I mean Perkins every year that they waste money on that guy is a wasted year that they could get real help.
 
#532
#532
BadJerry20 said:
The most aggravating thing about that situation is, from what I understood they made JH an offer he wanted to think about it and they pretty much said do it now or it's off the table.

As for Jim McIlvaine ummm I mean Perkins every year that they waste money on that guy is a wasted year that they could get real help.
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I believe the offered $54M instead of $58M that Harden wanted and refused to budge. He was willing to leave about $4M on the table so they could sign a vet or two on one year deals and they refused. During that they said sign this or you are traded to Houston which was going to offer him $80M.
 
#533
#533
zjcvols said:
I believe the offered $54M instead of $58M that Harden wanted and refused to budge. He was willing to leave about $4M on the table so they could sign a vet or two on one year deals and they refused. During that they said sign this or you are traded to Houston which was going to offer him $80M.
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Well that pisses me off a little more to be honest.
 
#534
#534
I feel like the addition of Mike Dunleavy is so overlooked by everyone. Shooting off the bench is going to be HUGE for the Bulls.
 
#536
#536
GahLee said:
How far did Ibaka help take them when Westbrook went out?

It became apparent in the past playoffs that Westbrook is the true catalyst for the team.

I'm not saying he's better than Durant because he isn't. But despite the negatives you mentioned the dude can ball.
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Westbrook is good, but I think Ibaka creates more overall value. It's easy to see Westbrook's total value because his backup, R Jackson, was bad in the playoffs. He had more rebounds than assists! He couldn't get anything going.

Ibaka comes out and Collison goes in. I don't know what you think of Collison, but I think he's about as good of a backup big as you can ask for. Ibaka also had a bad playoffs, but it happens.

They should amnesty Perkins and give Thabeet his minutes until they can find a better solution.
 
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#537
#537
Good God, Jerry. Westbrook can't use bad offensive teammates as an excuse. He has a great offensive team around him.

They don't have a dominant post guy, but if they did how would that effect the team? It seems to me that it would slow things down and that maybe Westbrook wouldn't have the ball so much. The center would be kicking out to Martin, Durant, and Thabo instead of Westbrook driving and kicking. They would be better but I don't think it would make Westbrook better. He may stay out of the paint more, which is where he is at his best. He'd probably still make the same kind of errors (too many mid-range jumpers, silly passes).
 
#538
#538
n_huffhines said:
Westbrook is good, but I think Ibaka creates more overall value. It's easy to see Westbrook's total value because his backup, R Jackson, was terrible in the playoffs. He had more rebounds than assists!

Ibaka comes out and Collison goes in. I don't know what you think of Collison, but I think he's about as good of a backup big as you can ask for.

They should amnesty Perkins and give Thabeet his minutes until they can find a better solution.
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Not directed at me, but I love me some Nick Collison. He comes in for 20 minutes a night gives you 6-8pts and 4-6 rebs, play good hard nosed d, does all the little things to help a team.
 
#539
#539
BTW Jerry, did I tell you I met Durant and Collison when they were Sonics? Durant has salad fingers.
 
#540
#540
n_huffhines said:
Good God, Jerry. Westbrook can't use bad offensive teammates as an excuse. He has a great offensive team around him.

They don't have a dominant post guy, but if they did how would that effect the team? It seems to me that it would slow things down and that maybe Westbrook wouldn't have the ball so much. The center would be kicking out to Martin, Durant, and Thabo instead of Westbrook driving and kicking. They would be better but I don't think it would make Westbrook better. He may stay out of the paint more, which is where he is at his best. He'd probably still make the same kind of errors (too many mid-range jumpers, silly passes).
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Read what I said i didn't say he has bad offensive teammates, I said their half court offense isn't good.
Yes they put up points because they fastbreak a lot and have 2 of the best one on one guys in the league. In the halfcourt they are predictable, they have nobody besides those 2 guys that can get their own shot. They are a team of jump shooters. Everyone stands around waiting on KD and when that doesn't work, Russ has to do it on his own. Period. I watch it happen over and over and over again. Now most of that is on their coach as his coaching philosophy seems to be run run run and if you get in a halfcourt set, ummm KD and Russ do something. And a lot of the time it's Russ late in the shot clock. I didn't say having a big man would improve Russ I said they (the team) needs a low post player as they are purely a jump shooting team. They need a new coach and a new halfcourt offensive philosophy or they will never win a title. I know it's the cool thing to hate Russ and blame him, but watch their halfcourt offense, keep an eye on Durant. Russ gets forced in to bad situations 5-7 times a game. As I stated he still has his boneheaded moments, but its not all on him.
 
#543
#543
Btw Huff Martin isn't there anymore.

Ideally they would get a big pass first PG, and move Russ to the 2 where he is better suited. Which makes the JH lost even more of a disaster, as he ran the point a lot in the 4th quarter. Amnesty Perk and get a decent low post presence, then they would be a nightmare IMO
 
#544
#544
BadJerry20 said:
Btw Huff Martin isn't there anymore.

Ideally they would get a big pass first PG, and move Russ to the 2 where he is better suited. Which makes the JH lost even more of a disaster, as he ran the point a lot in the 4th quarter. Amnesty Perk and get a decent low post presence, then they would be a nightmare IMO
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Right, but I was talking about what Westbrook has done, not what he might do in the future...that being said, I think OKC's window of opportunity is closed. I just don't think they have a championship team. Durant will likely never play better than he he has already played (because he's that f-ing good) and they are losing pieces without making good additions.
 
#547
#547
n_huffhines said:
Right, but I was talking about what Westbrook has done, not what he might do in the future...that being said, I think OKC's window of opportunity is closed. I just don't think they have a championship team. Durant will likely never play better than he he has already played (because he's that f-ing good) and they are losing pieces without making good additions.
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You mentioned Martin when you were talking if they had a center he would be kicking it out to KD, Martin, and Thabo. I just thought you didn't know he was gone.

I wouldn't say it's closed, the have a great 3-some, one of the top 3. IMO KD could definitely improve, ball handling, posting up, passing and D could all improve. Not saying he will, be he hasn't reached his peak. They are on a huge spiral from where they were 2 years ago. As you said losing people left and right with no legit replacement. I think they have a 3 year window, as I don't see their 3 main players resigning next time. Maybe KD and Serge, doubtful on Russ. They are slipping while GS, Houston, and in a couple years NO is rising. They need to make a move and soon, it's depressing thinking what could have been with Russ, KD, JH, and Serge.
 
#549
#549
BadJerry20 said:
No he wasn't, he was all puffed up till he saw who fouled him.
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tumblr_mv2yxfrdqj1rs5ngxo1_400.jpg
 
#550
#550
Can't say I blame him honestly, I do enjoy fake tough guys looking punkish.

Side note my friend looks just like TH, poor Guy.
 
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