Objections filed on House vs NCAA

#51
#51
This used to be true, but unpaid internships are governed much differently now.

From Fact Sheet #71: Internship Programs Under The Fair Labor Standards Act

Courts have used the “primary beneficiary test” to determine whether an intern or student is, in fact, an employee under the FLSA.2 In short, this test allows courts to examine the “economic reality” of the intern-employer relationship to determine which party is the “primary beneficiary” of the relationship.
Sports scholarships are unrelated to any specific degree program. Ergo, on field and/or on court competition participation isn't an internship and thus, not subject to internship rules.
 
#52
#52
Sports scholarships are unrelated to any specific degree program. Ergo, on field and/or on court competition participation isn't an internship and thus, not subject to internship rules.

Yeah, I was just pointing out that "required" unpaid internships with clear economic benefit to the "host" is now illegal under the FLSA for any student. I think the other poster was trying to compare other students plights with student athletes.

While it certainly used to be the case that many students were "compelled" to work for free, that is no longer the case and many companies have been fined heavily for "misclassifying" interns. Many universities have also been fined for misclassifying students who are doing lab work without pay.
 
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#53
#53
Yeah, I was just pointing out that "required" unpaid internships with clear economic benefit to the "host" is now illegal under the FLSA for any student. I think the other poster was trying to compare other students plights with student athletes.

While it certainly used to be the case that many students were "compelled" to work for free, that is no longer the case and many companies have been fined heavily for "misclassifying" interns. Many universities have also been fined for misclassifying students who are doing lab work without pay.
Not for students working as student teachers at a school district during their last semester, it is not.
 
#54
#54
Not for students working as student teachers at a school district during their last semester, it is not.
Many states have made that illegal, especially in the public school systems. All the student intern needs to do is get a teaching certificate and they can get paid, in at least some states.
And...anyone want to lay offs on this being the basis of students filing a class action antitrust lawsuit about this?
 
#55
#55
Many states have made that illegal, especially in the public school systems. All the student intern needs to do is get a teaching certificate and they can get paid, in at least some states.
And...anyone want to lay offs on this being the basis of students filing a class action antitrust lawsuit about this?
The problem with that is, students typically are not eligible to receive their teaching certification until after graduation. There are some alternative certification methods but they typically require a completed college degree in a specific field to qualify.
 
#56
#56
And I apologize, I did not intend to hijack the thread in any way. My point was simply that the different opportunities between student athletes and scholarship students in other fields aren't always one sided.
 
#57
#57
The problem with that is, students typically are not eligible to receive their teaching certification until after graduation. There are some alternative certification methods but they typically require a completed college degree in a specific field to qualify.


A quick look around shows that route works to get teaching interns paid in several states, including Texas and South Carolina.

An antitrust lawsuit likely gets them paid, regardless of a teaching certificate or not.
 
#58
#58
They can cap direct payments but can in no way limit the total NIL deals of the combined roster - that is very clearly market manipulation/collusion.

Think of it this way - who benefits from the NIL cap? It is absolutely not the players. It is the NCAA, the universities, and even the "consumers" of talent who would likely love the idea of limiting what they have to pay for that talent.

0 chance that will be allowed. There is 0 chance that the NCAA will eve have a say in NIL at all, ever.

Like the man said, the NCAA will not attempt to limit the outside negotiations between NIL source and player. But just like the 86th player wanting to go to Bama can’t sue, having to take his money elsewhere is out there too.

Easy to write the rules to allow a single player cap exception for the first billion dollar NIL player foregoing any other NIL players on roster. Heck could even allow them to enroll, just not play. Bet MTSU would take that hit. No dilemma here!
 
#59
#59
There is no such thing as "the spirit of NIL".
You don't get to control someone else's fair market value. The free market does that. It's exactly what's happening.
We'll just disagree.
I see NIL as endorsement deals and the ability to use your name and likeness to promote,sell or endorse something.
NCAA Football stopped making that game because they were using players name and likeness but not getting paid to do so
 
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#60
#60
We'll just disagree.
I see NIL as endorsement deals and the ability to use your name and likeness to promote,sell or endorse something.
NCAA Football stopped making that game because they were using players name and likeness but not getting paid to do so
Wrong.. they are selling things. Market value, even if that value isn't all monetary.
 
#61
#61
No, it isn't. The $600 cap is in individual NIL before the NCAA can interfere if the proposed settlement goes through. It doesn't put limits on the schools at all.

Clarification of what is legal between the NIL provider and the athlete is a separate issue from capping the amount of that legal money each school can have on their roster.

Once the first is settled, the second can be established. Once again, just like schollies. Guessing the final solution is the student must file NIL contract values to NCAA, and NCAA can only share that data with schools with signed schollie papers and school can decide whether to accept the hit and complete the agreement.
 
#62
#62
Like the man said, the NCAA will not attempt to limit the outside negotiations between NIL source and player. But just like the 86th player wanting to go to Bama can’t sue, having to take his money elsewhere is out there too.

Easy to write the rules to allow a single player cap exception for the first billion dollar NIL player foregoing any other NIL players on roster. Heck could even allow them to enroll, just not play. Bet MTSU would take that hit. No dilemma here!

While these are really two completely separate issues, roster limits is one of the parts of the House settlement that has seen the most objections and will most certainly be challenged in court, but not for antitrust reasons.

Limiting roster spots for competitive reasons is not the same as limiting the earning potential of a roster because you don't want people making too much money.

Judges are largely pretty smart people and at the end of the day the question is going to be this - "By what reasoning does it make sense to cap or otherwise interfere with NIL?", "Who does it benefit?", "Who does it harm?"

The only argument put forth up to this point is - "Players are making too much money. We have to have some control."

There is no rational or legal argument to make NIL part of any conversation regarding any rule or regulation agreed upon by the NCAA and the Schools. It does not happen in any other situation, to you, or me, or anybody else in the United States.
 
#63
#63
Clarification of what is legal between the NIL provider and the athlete is a separate issue from capping the amount of that legal money each school can have on their roster.

Once the first is settled, the second can be established. Once again, just like schollies. Guessing the final solution is the student must file NIL contract values to NCAA, and NCAA can only share that data with schools with signed schollie papers and school can decide whether to accept the hit and complete the agreement.

There is no chance whatsoever that NIL will factor into any final agreement. If it does, the first player that is impacted or denied a spot on a team because of what he/she earns, it will be challenged and the NCAA will lose. It does not matter at all what is agreed to in this case.
 
#64
#64
Clarification of what is legal between the NIL provider and the athlete is a separate issue from capping the amount of that legal money each school can have on their roster.

Once the first is settled, the second can be established. Once again, just like schollies. Guessing the final solution is the student must file NIL contract values to NCAA, and NCAA can only share that data with schools with signed schollie papers and school can decide whether to accept the hit and complete the agreement.
So pushing payments back underground is the answer? That's especially silly since the NCAA has essentially shuttered their investigative division for that type of violation.

House does nothing, really, but hide the money again from fans. Maybe that makes you feel better? I don't get it at all.
 
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#65
#65
There is no chance whatsoever that NIL will factor into any final agreement. If it does, the first player that is impacted or denied a spot on a team because of what he/she earns, it will be challenged and the NCAA will lose. It does not matter at all what is agreed to in this case.

Exactly!
 
#66
#66
NIL is not the problem. It's the ridiculous transfer rules. I'd allow one transfer unless your head coach leaves. That's plenty.

Maybe one without sitting a year. But pay for play revenue sharing money may change that. Lots of lawsuits yet to come I bet. Whether it is salary or not for starters. Employee or not? Distribution of TV revenue equally for every team in the division too I would think.
Nothing ridiculous about it. Every student has the legal right to transfer as often as they want. That includes athletes.

Why do you want to discriminate against athletes?

Fortunately, the federal courts disagree with you.

As a pure amateur with outside NIL vs direct money from revenue sharing may impact that area if considered an employee. Non-competes and contract dates could come into play. Especially tampering from other schools. This Wild West era is just nuts. Might see dualing judges.
 
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#69
#69
Maybe one without sitting a year. But pay for play revenue sharing money may change that. Lots of lawsuits yet to come I bet. Whether it is salary or not for starters. Employee or not? Distribution of TV revenue equally for every team in the division too I would think.

As a pure amateur with outside NIL vs direct money from revenue sharing may impact that area if considered an employee. Non-competes and contract dates could come into play. Especially tampering from other schools. This Wild West era is just nuts. Might see dualing judges.
That's impossible. One can't simultaneously be an amateur and an employee.

Employee status is the last thing the NCAA wants. That's why they're fighting tooth and nail to preserve the last vestiges of "amateur" college sports.
 
#70
#70
Aaah, deflection when you can't even show evidence for your claim, much less prove it.

...as expected.

Josh, James and Hunter are NOT going to share communication they have, on any subject, let alone players.

Let me ask you, do you believe that Sprye is going to dictate who is on the roster for Heupel?
 
#71
#71
That's impossible. One can't simultaneously be an amateur and an employee.

Employee status is the last thing the NCAA wants. That's why they're fighting tooth and nail to preserve the last vestiges of "amateur" college sports.


Has it been established if Revenue sharing payments are considered salary? If so and attain employee status, will they have to be treated like other school employees and pay for their schollies, at same rate of other employees? The insurance might be different. Housing allowance also payroll deductible? Imagine the variability by school and states. State income tax as well. Can’t imagine them being treated different from other employee groups or more lawsuits.
 
#72
#72
Has it been established if Revenue sharing payments are considered salary? If so and attain employee status, will they have to be treated like other school employees and pay for their schollies, at same rate of other employees? The insurance might be different. Housing allowance also payroll deductible? Imagine the variability by school and states. State income tax as well. Can’t imagine them being treated different from other employee groups or more lawsuits.
Not as of now. It is unknown if they will be employees, contractors, or if revenue sharing will be considered a permissable benefit.

Obviously, revenue sharing is subject to taxation.

The NCAA hates the idea of athletes becoming employees. That shuts the door on the amateurism model and opens doors to unionization, collective bargaining, strikes, and eliminating recruiting in favor of a draft.mpre lawsuits are likely, regardless.
 
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#73
#73
Josh, James and Hunter are NOT going to share communication they have, on any subject, let alone players.

Let me ask you, do you believe that Sprye is going to dictate who is on the roster for Heupel?
Spyre can't dictate who is on the roster. The transfer portal **** the door on that.
 

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