O-line, D-line, and the secondary

#1
CNeagleVolFan

CNeagleVolFan

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#1
I just feel its such a shame that we have such talented skill position players, and they have a wasted year of eligibility because we are weak in the trenches and in the defensive backfield. Both the starting QB and back up QB are very good IMO. Gaurantano when he has time to throw has a hose, and can sling it to our great receiving core.

Also we have a stable of RB's! When you can go 4 deep at RB you are good in the backfield. I mean even Princeton Fant I believe will turn into a decent RB with time, so that is 5 guys in the backfield. We just have an O-line that does not pass block or run block consistently at all, and it really is a shame with all the talent at the skill positions.

I hope things improve along the offensive line, or else the skill positions do not matter near as much. Then we have a solid LB core, but the secondary and D-line has not been impressive at all. I can see the bright spots of our team but the weaknesses have masked the positives so far, and it is frustrating.

Gaurantano is the best arm talent we have had since Tyler Bray, although he is still learning to read defenses. He is definitely the future, but it is also nice to have a guy like Chryst. God knows we will be lucky to make it through the entire season behind this offensive and keep our QB healthy. So having Chryst is great. I just believe that if the offensive line makes the necessary improvements that we will be a pretty good offense. Defensively is a bit more complicated, but I just think it is a shame to have all this talent in the skill positions and not be able to fully utilize it. How can the O-line make the necessary improvements?
 
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#2
#2
Through 2 games, I'm wondering of the O-line and D-line (with the exception of Trey Smith) were permanently scarred by Butch or something. For a quarter and a half, they could not move the line of scrimmage against an FCS program who started fielding a team again just a few years ago after a 12-year absence. The defensive line generates absolutely zero pass rush. Kongbo and Phillips, two extremely talented (supposedly) pass rushers that every major school in the country wanted, are completely anonymous.

Unfortunately, I think it is going to take multiple recruiting cycles to improve in the trenches to a level where we can be competitive.
 
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#5
#5
With this O-line we will be in serious trouble when we get to SEC teams. I mean if an FCS team in its infancy can get to our QB consistently then we are in serious trouble. Maybe they learn how to block this week
 
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#6
#6
I think we are in serious trouble. By the end of November if we have an SEC win it will seem like an accomplishment regardless of our bowl eligibility.
 
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#7
#7
ProudVOLfan said:
With this O-line we will be in serious trouble when we get to SEC teams. I mean if an FCS team in its infancy can get to our QB consistently then we are in serious trouble. Maybe they learn how to block this week
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Learn to block this week?? Hel-, they haven't learned in their first 18-22 years. How do you expect them to learn in a week???
 
#9
#9
bigdaddy said:
At this point I would be looking to see if Kongbo can block somebody. He is just not very good at OLB
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I don't see Kongobo starting for much longer. I think Pruitt is giving him his shot, if he can't be effective in the pass rush after UTEP I think you see Allen or someone else in that spot.
 
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#10
#10
ProudVOLfan said:
With this O-line we will be in serious trouble when we get to SEC teams. I mean if an FCS team in its infancy can get to our QB consistently then we are in serious trouble. Maybe they learn how to block this week
Click to expand...

The OL is likely learning a new blocking scheme. It will likely take most of the season for the O-Linemen to get comfortable enough where they can just play instead of "thinking" about what they're suppose to do. "Thinking" about what you're suppose to do slows players down. It's going to take some time.
 
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#11
#11
Greysondawg said:
The OL is likely learning a new blocking scheme. It will likely take most of the season for the O-Linemen to get comfortable enough where they can just play instead of "thinking" about what they're suppose to do. "Thinking" about what you're suppose to do slows players down. It's going to take some time.
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Trey Smith doesnt seem to be having an issue with it.Is it more difficult for the interior of the line to learn a new scheme? Serious question
 
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#12
#12
bigdaddy said:
At this point I would be looking to see if Kongbo can block somebody. He is just not very good at OLB
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He's 6'5'', 254 lbs. You can't convert him into an offensive lineman a la what Kansas City is trying to do with McKenzie.

He has the body type and (supposedly) the athleticism of a tailor-made pass rushing LB or DE. A lot was made of the fact that despite being the #1 ranked JUCO, he was very much a project because he only had played competitive, organized football for a couple years before going to junior college. It also hasn't helped that this is the 3rd different position he's played at Tennessee, although I would think a conversion to a pass-rushing LB in a 3-4 defense would allow for his natural athleticism to be on display the most. Thing is, there have been a lot of "project" players that teams have converted into very productive football players. That's precisely what a coaching staff is there to do.

Maybe it's possible he just isn't as talented as every recruiting service in the country thought he was. Given that everyone Butch recruited along the defensive line except Derek Barnett has underachieved, I have my doubts though. It chaps my a** to think that if he went to another school with a better coaching staff, we'd be talking about him being at least a mid-round, maybe early round NFL draft pick that opposing offenses have to specifically account for every play.

Also, yes, if the O-line does not improve from the first two games we might not win a single SEC game again this year. ETSU's defensive line matched our offensive line for at least a quarter and a half. It's absolutely mind-boggling. Trey Smith is a generational-type offensive lineman who seems to "get it" no matter what is going on. The others...it's like they couldn't find their way out of a wet paper bag. It's obviously a technique thing...Tennessee should simply be able to physically manhandle the defensive line of an FCS school.
 
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#13
#13
Jack Burton said:
I think we are in serious trouble. By the end of November if we have an SEC win it will seem like an accomplishment regardless of our bowl eligibility.
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Agree. If we can’t block ETSU at the point of attack, how do we have a prayer versus UF, UGA, or even KY?
 
#14
#14
ProudVOLfan said:
Trey Smith doesnt seem to be having an issue with it.Is it more difficult for the interior of the line to learn a new scheme? Serious question
Click to expand...

You can't dismiss the talent issue. You have to win the individual matchups. But, I do think that there is opportunity to improve with this group of guys. O-Line is probably the most team "oriented" element of all of football. All five guys have to know without hesitation what their assignments are. They all have to take the right first step. They all have to seal the right seam. A mental error by one guy can make it look like the whole thing fell apart.

I agree with CJP that more reps at the same position with the same group of guys can provide improvement. They won't be dominant until they more physically dominating players, but they can be serviceable.
 
#15
#15
05_never_again said:
Through 2 games, I'm wondering of the O-line and D-line (with the exception of Trey Smith) were permanently scarred by Butch or something. For a quarter and a half, they could not move the line of scrimmage against an FCS program who started fielding a team again just a few years ago after a 12-year absence. The defensive line generates absolutely zero pass rush. Kongbo and Phillips, two extremely talented (supposedly) pass rushers that every major school in the country wanted, are completely anonymous.

Unfortunately, I think it is going to take multiple recruiting cycles to improve in the trenches to a level where we can be competitive.
Click to expand...
Philips got way better as the game went. He was batting down balls and pursuing the ball very well
 
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#16
#16
CNeagleVolFan said:
I just feel its such a shame that we have such talented skill position players, and they have a wasted year of eligibility because we are weak in the trenches and in the defensive backfield. Both the starting QB and back up QB are very good IMO. Gaurantano when he has time to throw has a hose, and can sling it to our great receiving core.

Also we have a stable of RB's! When you can go 4 deep at RB you are good in the backfield. I mean even Princeton Fant I believe will turn into a decent RB with time, so that is 5 guys in the backfield. We just have an O-line that does not pass block or run block consistently at all, and it really is a shame with all the talent at the skill positions.

I hope things improve along the offensive line, or else the skill positions do not matter near as much. Then we have a solid LB core, but the secondary and D-line has not been impressive at all. I can see the bright spots of our team but the weaknesses have masked the positives so far, and it is frustrating.

Gaurantano is the best arm talent we have had since Tyler Bray, although he is still learning to read defenses. He is definitely the future, but it is also nice to have a guy like Chryst. God knows we will be lucky to make it through the entire season behind this offensive and keep our QB healthy. So having Chryst is great. I just believe that if the offensive line makes the necessary improvements that we will be a pretty good offense. Defensively is a bit more complicated, but I just think it is a shame to have all this talent in the skill positions and not be able to fully utilize it. How can the O-line make the necessary improvements?
Click to expand...

Quality skill position play is secondary, every SEC team has that. What you need to win is a solid 6 linemen on both sides of the ball who can play serious minutes successfully, thats 12 solid linemen. We have 1/2 that number.
 
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#17
#17
ProudVOLfan said:
Trey Smith doesnt seem to be having an issue with it.Is it more difficult for the interior of the line to learn a new scheme? Serious question
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Trey is on his own level. Barring injury he's a top 5 lock NFL Draft lock imo Players like him don't come around often.
 
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#18
#18
05_never_again said:
Through 2 games, I'm wondering of the O-line and D-line (with the exception of Trey Smith) were permanently scarred by Butch or something. For a quarter and a half, they could not move the line of scrimmage against an FCS program who started fielding a team again just a few years ago after a 12-year absence. The defensive line generates absolutely zero pass rush. Kongbo and Phillips, two extremely talented (supposedly) pass rushers that every major school in the country wanted, are completely anonymous.

Unfortunately, I think it is going to take multiple recruiting cycles to improve in the trenches to a level where we can be competitive.
Click to expand...
J Johnson and Carvin were never coached by Jones.
 
#21
#21
Volador said:
Do you think it is possible that the coaches purposely did not run blitzes and or load up on the pass rush so as to not giveaway our future Defensive game plans??
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I really wish that was the case, but I cant bring myself to think it. To hide your super secret pass rush scheme for three games would be very sneaky indeed.
 
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#22
#22
MyBloodRunnethOrange said:
J Johnson and Carvin were never coached by Jones.
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Johnson was a lightly-recruited 3-star JUCO who wasn't in for spring and Carvin a true freshman with a .8904 rating on 247 (good, but not an elite, Trey Smith-type recruit). They've been practicing all over the offensive line at multiple positions; that isn't exactly conducive for their development. The fact they are even playing is an indictment of Butch and the job he did. A big lack of depth.

The real disappointments are guys like Chance Hall (I know he's been hurt a lot, but when he plays and is supposedly healthy he's a turnstile) and Drew Richmond. Richmond was a borderline 5-star recruit with offers from every major school in the country and is playing his 4th year of major college football, yet he looks no better than any other player on the line. It's sad because this year our offensive line should be book-ended by elite tackle play (Smith and Richmond) with solid interior line play. I shudder to think how bad we'd be without Smith - at least we have one person we can attempt to run behind but you aren't going to be able to do anything offensively with only one good offensive lineman.
 
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#24
#24
Volador said:
Do you think it is possible that the coaches purposely did not run blitzes and or load up on the pass rush so as to not giveaway our future Defensive game plans??
Click to expand...
That sounds an awful lot like the "I bet we ran a vanilla offense against App St" line we heard in 2016. That turned out to be our exact offense.

If you had blitzes you wanted to run, I don't know why they wouldn't bust them out in a season opening neutral site game against a ranked P5 non-conference opponent. I think these guys we have are just incapable of generating any sort of a pass rush despite their very high recruiting rankings. I don't know if that's because they are damaged goods because of a previous coaching staff (entirely possible) or because they were, to a man, highly overrated by the recruiting services (possible, but not probable). If one of them this year, say Phillips, was a stud, I'd be inclined to say Kongbo was overrated. But when you have multiple highly-rated guys come though here and only one of them (Barnett) turns out to be a player, I question coaching.
 
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#25
#25
Volador said:
Do you think it is possible that the coaches purposely did not run blitzes and or load up on the pass rush so as to not giveaway our future Defensive game plans??
Click to expand...


Any coach will tell you, if they can’t get to the QBs on the vanilla blitz calls and schemes then their sure not gonna be able to get to the QBs when we’re running the complex blitz packages. So it really doesn’t matter if their hiding some stuff or not, cause their not getting pressure on the easy stuff they’ve showed so far. They’ve just got to get better on their intangibles, angles to the QBs, knowing where to attack your blocker, how to
Use your hands properly. Those are all things that contribute to a good OLb, and that’s what they’ve gotta keep working on if we want to have a decent to good pass rush this year.
 
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